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Did Christianity do anything unique in history?

bikerdruid said:
christianity was not introduced by jesus.
jesus was a practicing jew.
it was paul that thurned jesus' message of love into a religion, and prostituted what jesus lived and died for.
what a great shame.
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Yes Jesus was a Jew but he fulfilled the Old Covenant and ushered in a New Covenant. Remember how he repeatedly corrected the scribes and pharisees who were living by the law? It wasn't just Paul, all the apostles laid a new foundation of which Christ was the chief cornerstone. They spread the gospel of Jesus Christ to the world. Salvation comes by believing in Jesus as Lord and Savior and following him. Not by not adhering to Laws and ceremonial rituals. Nor was the temple and animal sacrifices needed any longer.
 
Elizabeth I said:
John John, before you go any further, and to save you embarrassment, most of the atheists and agnostics in this forum know the Bible exceedingly well, often better than most of the believers. In fact, many of them have said that careful reading of the Bible was the beginning of their atheism/agnosticism.

Think before you post.
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Sorry but I disagree. Atheists and agnostics may read the Bible a lot but No, they do not know it or understand it, better than most Christians and I'll tell you why. If they did they would BELIEVE. The Bible is foolishness to those who are perishing because it is spiritually discerned. We cannot come to the Scriptures with mere intellect. In order to know God, we must believe in him. Many of the world's geniuses are atheists. Why? Because they are trying to understand the Scriptures with intellect alone. Doesn't work that way. Jesus said we must come to him as little children. Those atheists have made the choice not to submit themselves to a higher authority. Why? Because they want to be the master of their own destiny and not be held accountable for anything they do. This is pride and the bible tells us that pride goes before a fall.
 
"The bible makes sense if you don't think about it."

Gotcha. I'd always suspected that was the case, but it's nice to have it confirmed.
 
JohnJohn said:
The Bible is foolishness to those who are perishing because it is spiritually discerned. We cannot come to the Scriptures with mere intellect. In order to know God, we must believe in him.
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What will happen if I come to Alice in Wonderland wanting to believe?
 
JohnJohn said:
Those atheists have made the choice not to submit themselves to a higher authority. Why? Because they want to be the master of their own destiny .
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Yes, why be a slave? Especially to the superstitious campfire stories of Bronze-age goat tenders.
 
JohnJohn said:
Sorry but I disagree. Atheists and agnostics may read the Bible a lot but No, they do not know it or understand it, better than most Christians and I'll tell you why. If they did they would BELIEVE. The Bible is foolishness to those who are perishing because it is spiritually discerned. We cannot come to the Scriptures with mere intellect. In order to know God, we must believe in him. Many of the world's geniuses are atheists. Why? Because they are trying to understand the Scriptures with intellect alone. Doesn't work that way. Jesus said we must come to him as little children. Those atheists have made the choice not to submit themselves to a higher authority. Why? Because they want to be the master of their own destiny and not be held accountable for anything they do. This is pride and the bible tells us that pride goes before a fall.
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This is one of the things that's so very, very wrong with religion. Are you seriously telling us it's wrong to think about it, to use our brains to come to rational conclusions? Your dismissal of "mere intellect" is obscene and says a lot more about this particular argument and your belief than you realise.
 
TimCallahan said:
I'm curious as to how you reconcile the two passages below with the passage in Luke 23:39 - 42, where one of the thieves repents.

Mark 15:32b . . . Those who were crucified with him also reviled him.

Matthew 27:44 And the robbers who were crucified with him also reviled him in the same way.
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JohnJohn, I'm still waiting for your answer to the above question, particularly since you mentioned good thief.
 
JohnJohn said:
Sorry but I disagree. Atheists and agnostics may read the Bible a lot but No, they do not know it or understand it, better than most Christians and I'll tell you why. If they did they would BELIEVE. The Bible is foolishness to those who are perishing because it is spiritually discerned. We cannot come to the Scriptures with mere intellect. In order to know God, we must believe in him. Many of the world's geniuses are atheists. Why? Because they are trying to understand the Scriptures with intellect alone. Doesn't work that way. Jesus said we must come to him as little children. Those atheists have made the choice not to submit themselves to a higher authority. Why? Because they want to be the master of their own destiny and not be held accountable for anything they do. This is pride and the bible tells us that pride goes before a fall.
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In any other argument, you would certainly not disqualify someone's perception based on the fact they disagreed with you. Thus, this argument amounts to special pleading.
 
Elizabeth I said:
Oh, I understand that. But Avalon said you can't be a Christian unless you follow Jesus' teachings, and it seems to me that a lifetime spent as a mob hit man (for example) means the person did not follow Jesus' teachings. However, it looks as if Avalon didn't really mean "follow Jesus' teachings," because you can spend your whole life not following the teachings, then at the last possible moment, confess and believe and all will be right with God. It's the inherent contradiction that irritates me. You don't really have to "follow Jesus' teachings," you just have to say at the end of your life that you wish you had, and there's your ticket to heaven.

ETA: and the religious persist in rolling out that argument as if it made some kind of logical sense. It makes me want to scream.
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Do you think a con-man would be able to con the All Knowing?

You have a concept of what a Just God would be like - that's why someone repenting at the end of their life after a lifetime of bad deeds comes off to you as unfair - because justice demands they somehow makeup for their misdeeds either through punishment or making amends of some sort.

There are living people who have done bad deeds who feel guilty for what they've done and seek to right their wrongs. For those people - do they not, whether they believe in God or nor, repent first? At some point they face what they've done and turn away from that life and however little and in whatever way they can they begin attempting to live anew - to right their wrongs.

Is it justice if such a person repents and spends a day righting his/her wrongs only to die suddenly and unexpectedly the next day? They repented, yet only had one day to make amends. The repentence was sincere. Does their dieing early have any bearing on the sincerity of their repentence? God will know if someone is insincere.

How long should someone have to be punished in order to make amends for their deeds? I believe an All Knowing Just God will perfectly punish in such a way that perfectly fits the deed and will do it for as long as is needed to correct the behavior - and yes, if the person insists, he'll do it even into an eternity of ages patiently waiting for his Prodigal to come Home.

Just one man's belief of course. :)
 
A Christian Sceptic said:
Do you think a con-man would be able to con the All Knowing?

You have a concept of what a Just God would be like - that's why someone repenting at the end of their life after a lifetime of bad deeds comes off to you as unfair - because justice demands they somehow makeup for their misdeeds either through punishment or making amends of some sort.

There are living people who have done bad deeds who feel guilty for what they've done and seek to right their wrongs. For those people - do they not, whether they believe in God or nor, repent first? At some point they face what they've done and turn away from that life and however little and in whatever way they can they begin attempting to live anew - to right their wrongs.

Is it justice if such a person repents and spends a day righting his/her wrongs only to die suddenly and unexpectedly the next day? They repented, yet only had one day to make amends. The repentence was sincere. Does their dieing early have any bearing on the sincerity of their repentence? God will know if someone is insincere.

How long should someone have to be punished in order to make amends for their deeds? I believe an All Knowing Just God will perfectly punish in such a way that perfectly fits the deed and will do it for as long as is needed to correct the behavior - and yes, if the person insists, he'll do it even into an eternity of ages patiently waiting for his Prodigal to come Home.

Just one man's belief of course. :)
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So you believe in salvation after death?
 
A Christian Sceptic said:
I believe it's an option - whether any take it I have no idea. Nor do I know what it would be like - it's all speculation on my part based on the metaphors Jesus left us.
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C. S. Lewis certainly seems to have believed it. At least that's what The Great Divorce seems to say. Also, the bit of "the dwarves are for the dwarves," in The Last Battle would seem to go along with the idea that Hell is locked from the inside.
 
TimCallahan said:
C. S. Lewis certainly seems to have believed it. At least that's what The Great Divorce seems to say. Also, the bit of "the dwarves are for the dwarves," in The Last Battle would seem to go along with the idea that Hell is locked from the inside.
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Yeah - I liked that book - The Great Divorce. George MacDonald was the tour guide in that book - he's probably my favorite author of all time. You might like his Sermon on Justice.

http://www.online-literature.com/george-macdonald/unspoken-sermons/31/

A bit of honesty here - I wouldn't be a Christian if I really believed God was as small and unjust as many Christians make Him out to be. I'm not sure what I'd be.
 
A Christian Sceptic said:
Yeah - I liked that book - The Great Divorce. George MacDonald was the tour guide in that book - he's probably my favorite author of all time. You might like his Sermon on Justice.

http://www.online-literature.com/george-macdonald/unspoken-sermons/31/

A bit of honesty here - I wouldn't be a Christian if I really believed God was as small and unjust as many Christians make Him out to be. I'm not sure what I'd be.
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Possibly Christianity's Greatest Gift to Mankind (not sure about uniquest, but certainly one of my favourites), bringing out the "Inner Pagan" of CS Lewis ;) , and thus The Chronicles of Narnia, one of the great Pagan children's series of our time.

GB
 
Gandalfs Beard said:
Possibly Christianity's Greatest Gift to Mankind (not sure about uniquest, but certainly one of my favourites), bringing out the "Inner Pagan" of CS Lewis ;) , and thus The Chronicles of Narnia, one of the great Pagan children's series of our time.

GB
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And this very C S Lewis found God, got spiritually born-again and reigns with Christ evermore.
 
JohnJohn said:
I am not a slave but co-heir with Jesus Christ.
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You submit yourself totally to an indefinite being which may or may not exist and pledge to do his works to the point at which you presumably would follow any of his orders?

That's a slave.
 
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