Elizabeth I
Philosopher
No. The book-burnings, the desecration of indigenous temples, the tortures until the victims "accepted" Christ or died, were done in the name of Jesus Christ.
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Did Christianity do anything unique in history?
- Thread starter CplFerro
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No. The book-burnings, the desecration of indigenous temples, the tortures until the victims "accepted" Christ or died, were done in the name of Jesus Christ.
Anybody can use the name of Jesus which is probably why Christ said in Matthew 7: 21-23,
21 Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?"
23 And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness".
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Elizabeth I
Philosopher
You have a real talent for special pleading. So when people are feeding orphans, curing the sick, comforting the bereaved in Jesus' name, it's really in Jesus' name, but when people (including some of the same ones that were feeding, curing and comforting) destroy priceless history, completely contaminate the archaeological record, and torture or kill to enforce "conversion" to Christianity, all in Jesus' name, it's not really in Jesus' name?
You must also have a really well-developed sense of discrimination to be able to tell the difference among all the different kinds of "in Jesus' name."
CplFerro
Graduate Poster
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You have a real talent for special pleading. So when people are feeding orphans, curing the sick, comforting the bereaved in Jesus' name, it's really in Jesus' name, but when people (including some of the same ones that were feeding, curing and comforting) destroy priceless history, completely contaminate the archaeological record, and torture or kill to enforce "conversion" to Christianity, all in Jesus' name, it's not really in Jesus' name?
You must also have a really well-developed sense of discrimination to be able to tell the difference among all the different kinds of "in Jesus' name."
Dear Elizabeth,
You're being silly. DOC is noting that what Jesus prophesied happened: people will pretend to the doctrine for wicked ends. Such people are, indeed, false Christians.
Cpl Ferro
Elizabeth I
Philosopher
No, according to doc's quote, Jesus said people would do good things in His name:
It says nothing at all about people doing evil in Jesus' name. Nonetheless, many people did in fact do many evil things in Jesus' name. If you're going to give Him the credit for the good, He needs to take responsibility for the bad.
I can never understand why religious people don't see that.
But as you point out, Jesus does not take credit for the good done in His name -- if it's not done by His true disciples.
Good or bad deeds don't matter -- if you don't follow His teachings, He doesn't recognize you.
Elizabeth I
Philosopher
Wait, wait, wait, wait...so are you saying that the multiple murderer who truly repents and accepts Jesus on his deathbed is not going to heaven? Because he apparently didn't follow Jesus' teachings until that moment.
Or are you saying that it's enough to follow Jesus' teachings for a nanosecond, never mind what the other three-score-and-ten years of your life were like?
Elizabeth I
Philosopher
This kind of stuff is why I gave up being a Christian.
Gandalfs Beard
Graduate Poster
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Why not? God of the Bible Mass Murders to the point of genocide, approves of slavery, sexual slavery, rape and incest, Human Sacrifice, and yet "it's all good." So why shouldn't his followers have the same Moral Relativism?
Such Irony...those who have been preaching endlessly against "Moral Relativism" follow a Deity that practices Moral Relativism and can't even recognize that the Deity and his followers are being Morally Relativistic.
By the way, when God is Morally Relativist, it is called Teleological Suspension of the Ethical: nice dodge eh!
GB
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Elizabeth I
Philosopher
Why not? God of the Bible Mass Murders to the point of genocide, approves of slavery, sexual slavery, rape and incest, Human Sacrifice, and yet "it's all good." So why shouldn't his followers have the same Moral Relativism?
Such Irony...those who have been preaching endlessly against "Moral Relativism" follow a Deity that practices Moral Relativism and can't even recognize that the Deity and his followers are being Morally Relativistic.
By the way, when God is Morally Relativist, it is called Teleological Suspension of the Ethical: nice dodge eh!
GB
Oh, I understand that. But Avalon said you can't be a Christian unless you follow Jesus' teachings, and it seems to me that a lifetime spent as a mob hit man (for example) means the person did not follow Jesus' teachings. However, it looks as if Avalon didn't really mean "follow Jesus' teachings," because you can spend your whole life not following the teachings, then at the last possible moment, confess and believe and all will be right with God. It's the inherent contradiction that irritates me. You don't really have to "follow Jesus' teachings," you just have to say at the end of your life that you wish you had, and there's your ticket to heaven.
ETA: and the religious persist in rolling out that argument as if it made some kind of logical sense. It makes me want to scream.
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Why not? God of the Bible Mass Murders to the point of genocide, approves of slavery, sexual slavery, rape and incest, Human Sacrifice, and yet "it's all good." So why shouldn't his followers have the same Moral Relativism?
Such Irony...those who have been preaching endlessly against "Moral Relativism" follow a Deity that practices Moral Relativism and can't even recognize that the Deity and his followers are being Morally Relativistic.
By the way, when God is Morally Relativist, it is called Teleological Suspension of the Ethical: nice dodge eh!
GB
Have you read the story of the thief on the cross next to Jesus? He lived a lifetime as a criminal. But when he recognized who Jesus was, he asked for mercy and to be remembered when Jesus ascended to heaven. What did Jesus do? He said Today you will be with me in paradise. How do you like that, a total pardon and the offer of eternal life!
The Holy Bible is foolishness to them that are perishing.
bikerdruid
Philosopher
christianity was not introduced by jesus.
jesus was a practicing jew.
it was paul that thurned jesus' message of love into a religion, and prostituted what jesus lived and died for.
what a great shame.
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Elizabeth I
Philosopher
John John, before you go any further, and to save you embarrassment, most of the atheists and agnostics in this forum know the Bible exceedingly well, often better than most of the believers. In fact, many of them have said that careful reading of the Bible was the beginning of their atheism/agnosticism.
Think before you post.
Think before you post.
Sun Countess
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Just about everything. The spiderthat built a web on my deck is more important than my "soul."
That's like asking what could be more important than fairy dust.
TimCallahan
Philosopher
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I'm curious as to how you reconcile the two passages below with the passage in Luke 23:39 - 42, where one of the thieves repents.
Mark 15:32b . . . Those who were crucified with him also reviled him.
Matthew 27:44 And the robbers who were crucified with him also reviled him in the same way.