Showdown in Washington, D.C.

[BeAChooser]

I thought it might be interesting to add a photo from October 2, 2010's One Nation Rally to this thread, since it was held in the exact same location as Beck's "Restoring Honor" rally and was supposed to show the depth of support for the president’s programs (thus, it's another "showdown").

Here's a photo of the crowd:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/njpitney/5045134373/in/set-72157625081892992/

This was with the AFL-CIO, SEIU, and some 400 other organization all sending members to the rally, and even reportedly bringing in demonstrators in buses subsidized by the rally organizers.

It doesn't look like the rally drew anywhere near the numbers that Beck's drew. But that didn't stop it's organizers and speakers from claiming that the number of attendees exceeded that of the Beck rally.

But I will admit the numbers exceeded Beck's rally in at least two ways. The number of socialist and communists in attendance. And the amount of trash they left on the mall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCcwXlvb74Y&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUY_lfZJ87I

 

[Denver]

Beck's news site TheBlaze is all over this One Nation rally thing. Personally, I hadn't even heard of it.

I wonder how they'll cover Stewart's and Colbert's attendance?

 

[Ladewig]

I thought it might be interesting to add a photo from October 2, 2010's One Nation Rally to this thread, since it was held in the exact same location as Beck's "Restoring Honor" rally and was supposed to show the depth of support for the president’s programs (thus, it's another "showdown").

Here's a photo of the crowd:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/njpitney/5045134373/in/set-72157625081892992/

This was with the AFL-CIO, SEIU, and some 400 other organization all sending members to the rally, and even reportedly bringing in demonstrators in buses subsidized by the rally organizers.

It doesn't look like the rally drew anywhere near the numbers that Beck's drew. But that didn't stop it's organizers and speakers from claiming that the number of attendees exceeded that of the Beck rally.

But I will admit the numbers exceeded Beck's rally in at least two ways. The number of socialist and communists in attendance. And the amount of trash they left on the mall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCcwXlvb74Y&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUY_lfZJ87I

Ugh. I have to partially agree with you in that the organizers are being a bit misleading. on their homepage, they have a historical photo showing the mall crammed with people and over that photo they wrote "share your 10-2-10 photos and stories."

http://action.onenationworkingtogether.org/content/main

 

[Ladewig]

.

It doesn't look like the rally drew anywhere near the numbers that Beck's drew. But that didn't stop it's organizers and speakers from claiming that the number of attendees exceeded that of the Beck rally.

Now it looks like you are the one playing fast and loose with the numbers.

Beck's official stance is that between 300,000 and 650,000 people attended.

The One Nation Rally's organizers are claiming 175,000 ( via Reuters ).

So how do you figure that the One Nation folks are claiming numbers bigger than Beck's rally?

 

[BeAChooser]

I wonder how they'll cover Stewart's and Colbert's attendance?

Well Colbert's is just a big joke and how they cover Stewart's will likely depend on how true it is to it's principles and how well it polices the attendees to make sure they aren't just a rehash of One Nation rally crowd and their *issues*.

 

[BeAChooser]

Now it looks like you are the one playing fast and loose with the numbers. ... snip ... So how do you figure that the One Nation folks are claiming numbers bigger than Beck's rally?

Well first of all, I never claimed the One Nation folks quoted larger actual numbers than the number that Beck CLAIMED. I only said that they said from the podium that their crowd was bigger than Beck's. And it's true that at least some of their most prominent speakers said that. And if they claimed 175,000 in attendance, they obviously were inflating their numbers considerably since as we showed earlier on this thread there might have been 90,000-100,000 at the Beck venue. So if huge portions of the lawns that were covered with people in the Beck rally have no people on them, and the area next to the pond and under the trees next to the pond aren't wall to wall people all the way back to the war memorial, as they clearly were at the Beck rally, there is no possible way the One Nation crowd could exceed 90,000. They might be lucky if 20,000 actually attended.

 

[leftysergeant]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/njpitney/5045134373/in/set-72157625081892992/

Totally useless for a final headcount. We don't know the time.

The crowd seems to stretch pretty far back, even though there is a lot of room to get up close to the speakers. I don't see anybody on the steps behind the speaker's podium here, but there were in video of Ed's segment.

This could be from the time when people were entering or leaving the site.

 

[Denver]

Beck's news site TheBlaze is all over this One Nation rally thing. Personally, I hadn't even heard of it.

I wonder how they'll cover Stewart's and Colbert's attendance?

Well Colbert's is just a big joke and how they cover Stewart's will likely depend on how true it is to it's principles and how well it polices the attendees to make sure they aren't just a rehash of One Nation rally crowd and their *issues*.

One difference we can expect in coverage, will be Beck's comments about the various signs some nuts will have. He did the same for the Oct 2. Beck managed to avoid a lot of negative press of 8/28 by disallowing signs at his gathering.

 

[Cicero]

One Nation rally attendance: Does it matter?

"No media organization has provided a very specific estimate of the attendance at Saturday's liberal 'One Nation' rally. The Associated Press merely says that "thousands" of people were there, but that the crowd was "less dense" than the one that greeted Glenn Beck on August 28th. The Post and the New York Times both said "tens of thousands." But organizers claimed they drew a crowd of 175,000 people."

"Does crowd size even matter? In today's Fast Fix video, Chris Cillizza argues that it's hard to base anything on these numbers, considering what a small percentage of the population attended or even knew about either rally. After all, more people were at a Louisiana State University football game this weekend than likely went to either political event."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/10/one-nation-rally-attendance-do.html

Tiger Stadium's capacity is 92,400 (single-game record of 93,129 ) while BAC's mathematical solution estimated that 94,000 were in attendance at the Beck Rally.

 

[Ladewig]

Well first of all, I never claimed the One Nation folks quoted larger actual numbers than the number that Beck CLAIMED. I only said that they said from the podium that their crowd was bigger than Beck's. And it's true that at least some of their most prominent speakers said that. And if they claimed 175,000 in attendance, they obviously were inflating their numbers considerably since as we showed earlier on this thread there might have been 90,000-100,000 at the Beck venue. So if huge portions of the lawns that were covered with people in the Beck rally have no people on them, and the area next to the pond and under the trees next to the pond aren't wall to wall people all the way back to the war memorial, as they clearly were at the Beck rally, there is no possible way the One Nation crowd could exceed 90,000. They might be lucky if 20,000 actually attended.

So summing up. Beck overestimated his crowd by a factor of 6. One Nation speakers overestimated their crowd by a factor of 8. Yes, I can see how the latter is much worse than the first; bailiff, whack their peepees.

 

[BeAChooser]

Totally useless for a final headcount. We don't know the time.

Look closely at http://www.flickr.com/photos/njpitney/5045134373/in/set-72157625081892992/ and you will see that it's relatively consistent with the image of the crowd seen here: http://action.onenationworkingtogether.org/content/main and here: http://static.theatlanticwire.com/wire/images/opinions/5253_oneNationrally.jpg . Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt, surely you aren't claiming the One Nation crowd was anywhere near the size of the Beck crowd. Are you?

 

[BeAChooser]

Does crowd size even matter?

The One Nation rally was advertised as a counter rally to Beck's and was supposed to demonstrate the extent of the nations support for Obama's programs. Viewed in that light, it does matter.

 

[BeAChooser]

So summing up. Beck overestimated his crowd by a factor of 6. One Nation speakers overestimated their crowd by a factor of 8. Yes, I can see how the latter is much worse than the first

That's not my summary. For one, I didn't say that One Nation overestimated their crowd worse than Beck did.

 

[Cicero]

The One Nation rally was advertised as a counter rally to Beck's and was supposed to demonstrate the extent of the nations support for Obama's programs. Viewed in that light, it does matter.

The real question is why didn't CBS hire airphotoslive.com to provide ONR crowd numbers? Why their sudden loss of interest in pinning down crowd figures for publication and broadcast ?

 

[Ladewig]

That's not my summary. For one, I didn't say that One Nation overestimated their crowd worse than Beck did.

I apologize for misstating your point.

Please succinctly state the point of making a post (in a thread devoted to Beck's rally) about how much the One Nation rally overestimated their attendance figures.

 

[leftysergeant]

Look closely at http://www.flickr.com/photos/njpitney/5045134373/in/set-72157625081892992/ and you will see that it's relatively consistent with the image of the crowd seen here: http://action.onenationworkingtogether.org/content/main and here: http://static.theatlanticwire.com/wire/images/opinions/5253_oneNationrally.jpg .

Again with no way to verify the time.

Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt, surely you aren't claiming the One Nation crowd was anywhere near the size of the Beck crowd. Are you?

Given that there was less prior advertising and no bazillionaires assuring that it would be well-attended, given that most people are back to work or school from their vacations, given that a large percentage of the peo-ple attending have actual jobs wheere they have to punch in and given that the weather had, up until the day before been dreadful, it is still impressive.

Given the same communications and logisttics as the Beck mob, I am sure it would have embarrassed Vapo-boy.

 

[BeAChooser]

Please succinctly state the point of making a post (in a thread devoted to Beck's rally) about how much the One Nation rally overestimated their attendance figures.

Well as succinctly as possible, because you incorrectly claimed that I was :

playing fast and loose with the numbers

and then asked me

how do you figure that the One Nation folks are claiming numbers bigger than Beck's rally?

So I just responded to you.

As to why I mentioned this rally on a thread "devoted to Beck's rally", isn't that obvious? Because some of the speakers at the rally made a big deal out of it being a counter Beck Rally and because they dishonestly claimed in speeches at that rally that it drew a bigger crowd than Beck's rally. I think this is an entirely appropriate thread for such news, especially since the title of the thread is "Showdown in Washington, D.C." and much of the thread has already been spent comparing the size of Beck's rally to other rallys in the past.

 

[BeAChooser]

Given that there was less prior advertising

LOL! The One Nation rally was advertized for months before it occurred. In fact, Beck first publically announced plans for his rally back in November 2009. Well, the One Nation organizers have claimed that their rally was planned BEFORE Beck announce his rally. Here:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20101002/D9IJLNU00.html

One Nation organizers said that they began planning their event before learning about Beck's rally and that their march is not in reaction to it.

and no bazillionaires assuring that it would be well-attended

It's just so unfair. The One Nation folks only had the largest unions in the US sponsoring their rally and providing bus transportation to boot.

given that most people are back to work or school from their vacations

Well first, I wonder how many of the union attendees were paid to go to the One Nation rally. Bet it was more than a few.

And besides, isn't the constituency behind the One Nation rally mostly out of work people complaining about having no jobs?

and given that the weather had, up until the day before been dreadful, it is still impressive.

Oh please. They drew huge crowds to Obama's inauguration speech IN FEBRUARY, when snow flurries were possible. I doubt concerns about bad weather would keep ANY Obama supporter away in early October.

 

[Ladewig]

So summing up everything posted on page 12 of this thread Beck dishonestly overestimated his crowd by a factor of 6. One Nation speakers dishonestly overestimated their crowd by a factor of 8. Yes, I can see how the latter is much worse than the first.

 

[BeAChooser]

So summing up everything posted on page 12 of this thread

No, you didn't properly sum up "everything".

I also noted that the One Nation rally drew a much higher proportion of socialists and communists. I personally think that significant.

I also find it interesting that when Beck made his *numbers* claim and someone brought it to this thread, a dozen JREFers or more … including you … came out of the woodwork to criticize. But now, these same JREFers don't seem at all concerned about the fact that One Nation made equally outlandish (percentage error-wise) claims of crowd size. Do I detect a double standard? At JREF? Nah, couldn't be.