Controlled demolition vs. the towers collapsing

[femr2]

Where is the rebar in an office floor?

Who said it was from an OOS floor assembly Beachnut ? Or even WTC 1/2. Could be from loads of places you know. Obsessed much ?

It is what it is...

If you want the higlighted steel rod emerging from the center of the concrete slab to be tiles or carpet, you just go right ahead there.

Minimise your stress levels, and everything will all be alright, okay.

 

[leftysergeant]

The quoted parts do not describe falling bodies sounding like explosions.

To anyone with the ability to read English and no psychological reason to resist understanding it, such as a desire not to surrender a superstition, the quotes from fire fighters concerning the sound of bodies hitting the ground do describe the sound as an "explosion."

To a dedicated twoofer, intent on believing the writings of that nitwit MacQueen, it is probably highly disturbing to read those quotes because they stick a huge knitting needle into the balloon of lies puffed up by that lunatic religious whackadoodle. Mark does refer in several posts that I have seen to the oral histories that BigAl linked to in post number 1364.

MacQueen actually read those histories and recorded every mention of an "explosion" as one more clue to the existance of bombs.

He thus proved himself an utter clown. He has no business addressing forensics if this is the measure of how well he understands the evidence he is examining. Why people take the nutbar theologians in their movement seriously is a complete mystery to me unless it is from some mental disability.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Who said it was from an OOS floor assembly Beachnut ? Or even WTC 1/2. Could be from loads of places you know. Obsessed much ?

It is what it is...

[qimg]http://femr2.ucoz.com/_ph/6/2/163397554.png[/qimg]

If you want the higlighted steel rod emerging from the center of the concrete slab to be tiles or carpet, you just go right ahead there.

Minimise your stress levels, and everything will all be alright, okay.

I was telling ergo earlier that the rebar is a standard part of the floor system the WTC used. There are actually a few different ways that composite systems are put together, not just one as I implied before and I think beachnut is referring to one of them (wrongly in this case). There are three at least:

• One type is the corrugated decking and the concrete topping only: Here the deformed ribs bond with the concrete making the composite system
• 2nd type is similar but uses welded steel rods
• 3rd type is similar to the first except the decking has a certain rib pattern that is sometimes left exposed for providing a ceiling texture. It features dovetai channels for the insertion of special fastening devices to hang ductwork, etc from the ceiling.

The 2nd one is relevant to the WTC. I'll gladly post the diagrams from one of my books if either of you wants that shows these examples better. But again to clarify this is why I told ergo it's a standard type of construction...

 

[femr2]

the rebar is a standard part of the floor system the WTC used.

I think the issue Beachnut is having is that none of the available descriptions of any of the WTC1/2 floor systems specify the inclusion of rebar.

I personally have no idea where the *meteorite* mass came from on the site, so wouldn't try to state where exactly it originated. Maybe it was from the core, one of the underground car-parks, WTC 7, ... all manner of possible sources.

It certainly looks like rebar to me...position in concrete slab...surface grooves and notches for anchoring...etc...

If you have information (and especially images) which could help clarify, great.

 

[triforcharity]

Were the WTC floor slabs reinforced? I really didn't know that, since neither NIST nor any other source makes any mention of it.

Yes, the floor slabs were reinforced concrete. What do you think they were reinforced with? Toasters?

 

[beachnut]

I posted the build up of the floor, here it is again. I have an issue, 911 truth believers can't wake up and try harder. Why do I have to post the photo after making a false statement?

Ergo is easy, I posted the witnesses who heard explosives sounds and he failed to look them up, they heard bodies hitting the ground.

I said no rebar, but it is laid down in pairs to help with the two sets of wire mesh in the floor build up.

If you see a cement floor laid; professional use wire mesh, and rebar. The wire mesh in the WTC looks like it was raised up using chairs.

I think the issue Beachnut is having is that none of the available descriptions of any of the WTC1/2 floor systems specify the inclusion of rebar.

I personally have no idea where the *meteorite* mass came from on the site, so wouldn't try to state where exactly it originated. Maybe it was from the core, one of the underground car-parks, WTC 7, ... all manner of possible sources.

It certainly looks like rebar to me...position in concrete slab...surface grooves and notches for anchoring...etc...

If you have information (and especially images) which could help clarify, great.

I posted the floor build up! The chairs, the wire mess sitting on chairs, and rebar.

This is a floor pan; like a floor in the WTC, this is how the office floors were built, then cement, 4 inches deep was poured in place.

Like the bodies hitting the ground making sounds like explosives, 911 truth can't do basic research.

The floors had wire mesh. See the 10x4 wire mesh?
The floors had rebar, I believe in sets of two, 13 and 18 mm, as you posted in a photo of 3 or 4 floors smashed together with office paper etc en-bedded in the meteorite which has zero melted steel.

When someone says no rebar, all you have to do is show how a WTC floor was built. But no, I have to look it up so you can debunk me completely.

Can you help ergo with the bodies that sound like explosions, the jumpers which killed people on the ground?

 

[femr2]

rebar, but it is laid down in pairs to help with the two sets of wire mesh in the floor build up.

Okay.

NCSTAR 1-6B

Odd that it's not mentioned in any of the global structural models. Whether it was actually included in the floor assembly models, who knows ? Would make a difference, especially things like sagging floors.

 

[DGM]

Okay.

NCSTAR 1-6B

Odd that it's not mentioned in any of the global structural models. Whether it was actually included in the floor assembly models, who knows ? Would make a difference, especially things like sagging floors.

I seriously doubt it made much difference at all. I believe it was used to tie individual slabs together. It might however have something to do with the formation of the "meteorites" (holding small sections together).

 

[daws59]

Where is the office furniture?

if you art asking about the provided photo? the building isn't finished..
if you are asking where it ended up, you gotta be *********** kidding!

 

[ergo]

The floors had rebar, I believe in sets of two, 13 and 18 mm, as you posted in a photo of 3 or 4 floors smashed together with office paper etc en-bedded in the meteorite which has zero melted steel.

When someone says no rebar, all you have to do is show how a WTC floor was built. But no, I have to look it up so you can debunk me completely.

Can you help ergo with the bodies that sound like explosions, the jumpers which killed people on the ground?

Does anybody else have trouble understanding Beachnut? Or is it just my "poor research skills"?

here:

Are you serious?

Those are the supports under the floors! This is 3 or 4 floors pressed together from a KE event of 130 TONS of TNT.

here:

No rebar, the bars you see are the supports under the floor, all crushed up. No rebar. Like the bodies sounding like explosions, you can't do research. Why?

here:

The office floors were 4 inches of lightweight concrete, no rebar. The metal you seen in the floors piled up and smashed are the bars from the truss under the floor.

here:

WRONG! It is from the truss.

 

[T.A.M.]

I think, the end conclusion - WTC "meteorite" has reenforcing steel sticking out of it that was part of or attached to the steel/metal mesh that was supportive of the concrete slab. The metal, it appears, is not rebar as others have contended.

TAM

 

[ergo]

if you are asking where it ended up, you gotta be *********** kidding!

Why do I gotta ********* be kidding?

Where is the office furniture in this "meteorite"? Furniture which we would see in any other natural building collapse. Not whole, of course. In pieces. Smashed up, etc... but it would be there. I don't know of any natural building collapse that would create "meteorites" that could completely compress four floors int--how many inches is this? Do you?

 

[ergo]

I think, the end conclusion - WTC "meteorite" has reenforcing steel sticking out of it that was part of or attached to the steel/metal mesh that was supportive of the concrete slab. The metal, it appears, is not rebar as others have contended.

TAM

Why do you say it's not rebar, and what difference does it make?

 

[BigAl]

Why do I gotta ********* be kidding?

Where is the office furniture in this "meteorite"? Furniture which we would see in any other natural building collapse. Not whole, of course. In pieces. Smashed up, etc... but it would be there. I don't know of any natural building collapse that would create "meteorites" that could completely compress four floors int--how many inches is this? Do you?

When has a 100 floor building ever before collapsed into an 8-floor high pile?

Why do you doubt this object is as-described?

 

[ergo]

To anyone with the ability to read English and no psychological reason to resist understanding it, such as a desire not to surrender a superstition, the quotes from fire fighters concerning the sound of bodies hitting the ground do describe the sound as an "explosion."

To anyone who reads English and has no reason to resist understanding it, this is not what was in dispute.

What was in dispute (for the 16th time, now) is that those quotes describing explosions were somehow attributed to the sounds of bodies falling, seemingly by Mark Roberts alone. No one here has yet provided any source showing where he got this information.

Big Al posted other quotes which were not the ones Beachnut posted. (and also largely weren't relating the sounds of bodies hitting ground to the sounds of explosions).

Since this silliness has gone on for several pages now, I have already assumed you don't actually have a source, and Mark Roberts was likely making **** up, like dee bunkers do, and Beachnut faithfully regurgitating, like dee bunkers do.

 

[Reactor drone]

Why do I gotta ********* be kidding?

Where is the office furniture in this "meteorite"? Furniture which we would see in any other natural building collapse. Not whole, of course. In pieces. Smashed up, etc... but it would be there. I don't know of any natural building collapse that would create "meteorites" that could completely compress four floors int--how many inches is this? Do you?

I think it's safe to say that, if there was any office furniture in that piece, it would be located with the remnants of the trusses and suspended ceilings in that layer between the concrete slabs. It does look like it's been on fire so I wouldn't particularly expect any to still be there though.

 

[ergo]

When has a 100 floor building ever before collapsed into an 8-floor high pile?

Ah yes, the "first-time-in-history, therefore does not need to follow any known principles of physics" argument.

Why do you doubt this object is as-described?

Because it looks like heat-compacted material to me. It also looks like it's folded over on itself. It does not even remotely look like four compacted floors.

 

[Reactor drone]

Ah yes, the "first-time-in-history, therefore does not need to follow any known principles of physics" argument.



Because it looks like heat-compacted material to me. It also looks like it's folded over on itself. It does not even remotely look like four compacted floors.

I'm intrigued by this idea of "heat compaction", how does that work exactly?

To me it looks like a mechanical compaction, mass + kinetic energy =squished.

 

[T.A.M.]

Why do you say it's not rebar, and what difference does it make?

the question came up...read further back, and you will get it.

Diagrams of the floor structure do not indicate the 4" thick concrete floors had rebar. Truther was claiming it was rebar. Photos later produced by beach, IIRC show that the steel was not rebar, but reinforcing steel as part of a supportive mesh system.

Read earlier...

TAM

 

[T.A.M.]

Ah yes, the "first-time-in-history, therefore does not need to follow any known principles of physics" argument.



Because it looks like heat-compacted material to me. It also looks like it's folded over on itself. It does not even remotely look like four compacted floors.

are you for real? A truther lecturing us on the "1st time in history" argument. The truth movement used that canard for the collapses for years, still do when trying to lure new children into the movement.

TAM