NIST Denies Access to WTC7 Data

[T.A.M.]

hilite sounded a bit biased.

Not really, just the way i reespect people who serve there country....government workers with no agenda, no axe to grind...unlike truthers.

TAM

 

[fallout]

Not really, just the way i reespect people who serve there country....government workers with no agenda, no axe to grind...unlike truthers.

TAM

But how can you tell they have no agenda? Can you guarantee me that theres absolutely no sort of bribery or blackmail inside NIST or any other government branch? Still doesnt look skeptical enough. Unless you do not bother about being sceptical about this... thats another story then.

 

[fallout]

Face Palm.

Here, cmatrix, hire a lawyer, or do it yourself, file a petition for judicial review seeking access to the materials.

I guarantee you that you arent special enough as being the first person to think about it. You also know where it`s gonna bump and stop, you know what the allegation will be. Need I answer? Ok.

Answer: National Security.

Stalemate.

 

[carlitos]

But how can you tell they have no agenda? Can you guarantee me that theres absolutely no sort of bribery or blackmail inside NIST or any other government branch?

False dilemma / non sequitur. Carry on.

 

[The Big Dog]

I guarantee you that you arent special enough as being the first person to think about it. You also know where it`s gonna bump and stop, you know what the allegation will be. Need I answer? Ok.

Answer: National Security.

Stalemate.

Interesting that you have already came up with an excuse for not doing anything at all.

"i'm not gonna file a petition for judicial review because the government will come up with an excuse that they have not raised before, and which they can't rely on.

It is SOOOOO much easier to whine on the internet."

Gee, now I see how you've accomplished all that you've accomplished in the last nine years plus, Truthers!

 

[fallout]

Interesting that you have already came up with an excuse for not doing anything at all.

"i'm not gonna file a petition for judicial review because the government will come up with an excuse that they have not raised before, and which they can't rely on.

It is SOOOOO much easier to whine on the internet."

Gee, now I see how you've accomplished all that you've accomplished in the last nine years plus, Truthers!

You are 100% right about me doing nothing about it. And I dont plan to. I was just pointing out to you the stalemate and you can't deny it. The info will never be disclosed due to the national security excuse. You are doing the same thing as asking me to concentrate on lifting the cofeee mug next to me with the power of my thought, no matter how hard i try, it will not happen.

 

[fallout]

False dilemma / non sequitur. Carry on.

When you have something to say, I promise I will take a look.

 

[T.A.M.]

But how can you tell they have no agenda? Can you guarantee me that theres absolutely no sort of bribery or blackmail inside NIST or any other government branch? Still doesnt look skeptical enough. Unless you do not bother about being sceptical about this... thats another story then.

lol...what kind of question is that. I am a Doctor in Atlantic Canada. I can't guarantee you squat.

However, NIST is not a single person, it is not even a small group of people. Now I know the truthers get on with this crap about "only a select group of people needed to be on it, and they would keep it secret from the rest" but that is just a crock...a crock of crap. If there was blackmail and bribery to keep secret the "real" cause of the WTC collapse, ie. explosives, and hence the murder by someone else (other then the hijackers) of 3000 people, job security be damned, someone would come forward.

As well, I am not alone. Millions of people have implicitly (through their silence despite all of the truther calls of an inside job) accepted the report.

Now I know, you'll call that argument ad populum, and perhaps it is, but you combine the lack of scientific outrage (sorry, 1400 has been engineers and architects does not cut it) over the report along with the amount of "silence" that would have to be maintained makes me relatively sure that NIST have been honest in their reports, and hence are likely being honest in their reasons for keeping the data out of the hands of people who would make public the data.

TAM

 

[T.A.M.]

I guarantee you that you arent special enough as being the first person to think about it. You also know where it`s gonna bump and stop, you know what the allegation will be. Need I answer? Ok.

Answer: National Security.

Stalemate.

SO truthers have stopped asking for information, because they feel the answer will automatically be no. Where have I heard that before...oh ya, my 10 year old son!!!

TAM

 

[Thunder]

But how can you tell they have no agenda? Can you guarantee me that theres absolutely no sort of bribery or blackmail inside NIST or any other government branch?

without evidence, its called paranoia.

 

[332nd]

You are 100% right about me doing nothing about it. And I dont plan to. I was just pointing out to you the stalemate and you can't deny it. The info will never be disclosed due to the national security excuse. You are doing the same thing as asking me to concentrate on lifting the cofeee mug next to me with the power of my thought, no matter how hard i try, it will not happen.

Wait... did you just compare filing a legal action with telekenesis?

 

[MG1962]

So you believe without question that the experts at NIST are telling the truth. But you believe without question that the experts (engineers and physicists) who question NIST are wrong? Either way you show you are in no way a skeptic but merely an apologist for the powers that be.

No because the NIST has been doing this stuff for a 109 years. They measure taste test feel check everything from what time it is in any part of the US to how many meters in a gallon.

And if they were a bunch of inept people who are open to bribes, cover ups etc. Then virtually nothing the US would work as advertised....and I think people would have started to notice long before 2002

 

[fallout]

SO truthers have stopped asking for information, because they feel the answer will automatically be no. Where have I heard that before...oh ya, my 10 year old son!!!

TAM

As far as I know they didnt stop trying to get the info. I'll just leave it to them, anyways. I never claimed to be an activist for 911 truth and really dont plan to become one. I personally wouldnt bother to keep "punching a knife`s tip" (if you allow me a horrible translation of a local proverb).

 

[T.A.M.]

fine, then I would ask that you stop defending cmatrix and others, who are actively complaining about the lack of data release, but will not go through the proper channels to gtry to obtain it, using the excuse that my 10 year old would use..."I know that dad will say no, so I am not gonna ask him".

TAM

 

[fallout]

Wait... did you just compare filing a legal action with telekenesis?

Applied to this specific case, yes. The effect will be the same. 10 out of 10 attempts would be denied due to national security excuses. In the case of telekinesis, it would be denied by reality and laws of physics. In both cases the denial is implacable.

But there are tons os people who keep trying to levitate things and get the full disclosure outta Nist. To each its own.

 

[carlitos]

Applied to this specific case, yes. The effect will be the same. 10 out of 10 attempts would be denied due to national security excuses.

I apologize for posting it so many times, but Monbiot really nails the impotence of the "truth" people, as illustrated above.

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2007/02/20/bayoneting-a-scarecrow/

The obvious corollorary to the belief that the Bush administration is all-powerful is that the rest of us are completely powerless. In fact it seems to me that the purpose of the “9/11 truth movement” is to be powerless. The omnipotence of the Bush regime is the coward’s fantasy, an excuse for inaction used by those who don’t have the stomach to engage in real political fights.

...

The 9/11 conspiracy theories are a displacement activity. A displacement activity is something you do because you feel incapable of doing what you ought to do. A squirrel sees a larger squirrel stealing its hoard of nuts. Instead of attacking its rival, it sinks its teeth into a tree and starts ripping it to pieces. Faced with the mountainous challenge of the real issues we must confront, the chickens in the “truth” movement focus instead on a fairytale, knowing that nothing they do or say will count, knowing that because the perpetrators don’t exist, they can’t fight back. They demonstrate their courage by repeatedly bayoneting a scarecrow.

 

[fallout]

without evidence, its called paranoia.

Agreed but you might agree with me that generalizing like he did is not being skeptical. We can't prove theyre all honest and lawful. Or can we? What you can tell me is what one SHOULD expect from a government worker. That`s abnother story.

 

[carlitos]

Your post was a logical fallacy, not an argument. "Guaranteeing that there is no bribery or blackmail in any government branch" is not proof or disproof that NIST's reports are accurate.

 

[T.A.M.]

Agreed but you might agree with me that generalizing like he did is not being skeptical. We can't prove theyre all honest and lawful. Or can we? What you can tell me is what one SHOULD expect from a government worker. That`s abnother story.

I was not generalizing, I was merely stating that in an organization with so many people, where MOST are likely honest, and that has a reputation for producing accurate investigative data, why would I automatically suppose malfescience? (spelling).

TAM

 

[fallout]

lol...what kind of question is that. I am a Doctor in Atlantic Canada. I can't guarantee you squat.

Well...sorry to read that then...

However, NIST is not a single person, it is not even a small group of people. Now I know the truthers get on with this crap about "only a select group of people needed to be on it, and they would keep it secret from the rest" but that is just a crock...a crock of crap. If there was blackmail and bribery to keep secret the "real" cause of the WTC collapse, ie. explosives, and hence the murder by someone else (other then the hijackers) of 3000 people, job security be damned, someone would come forward.

but the thing is, NIST started from a conclusion to draw a premise. They can do it, anyone can. They dont even need to be bribed or dishonest or part of some big NWO conspiracy. Of course one can build a model in which a fire and some debris from surrounding buildings seem to be enough to bring down the building like a perfect controlled demolition. They can, but they need to release the full info so people can really test it and verify that thats the most plausible explanation, or better yet, that this indeeed WAS what happened.

As well, I am not alone. Millions of people have implicitly (through their silence despite all of the truther calls of an inside job) accepted the report.

That's a moot argument. The masses are ready to accept anything without questioning much, they just need someone to tell them what to believe.

Now I know, you'll call that argument ad populum, and perhaps it is, but you combine the lack of scientific outrage (sorry, 1400 has been engineers and architects does not cut it) over the report along with the amount of "silence" that would have to be maintained makes me relatively sure that NIST have been honest in their reports, and hence are likely being honest in their reasons for keeping the data out of the hands of people who would make public the data.

TAM

All good now.