Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[LondonJohn]

In football (soccer) that's what we call a back pass.

And really, that's never stopped you people has it? At best, you've had one or two pictures that 'may' relate to a specific fact. That's never prevented you from making assertions of certainty. Yet, then we have someone who disagrees with you and is doing the same, suddenly you're down on it? It's all good when it's all good...is that it?

A back pass in football is a defensive manoeuvre, usually returning the ball to the goalkeeper. It's a perfectly valid and sensible part of the defensive strategy of football. Do you mean a "hospital pass" in rugby, perhaps?

And using phrases like "you people" is perhaps not particularly sensible in the current climate. Particularly when those of us who think Knox and Sollecito might have been unjustly convicted do not fit into a homogeneous grouping.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Did you really mean to make this analogy? Do you truly think it's analogous to Massei not commenting - let alone ruling - on significant evidence with was presented to him and debated in front of him in a criminal trial? Really?

I meant to highlight the false idea put out by some that if Massei didn't write about it, then it doesn't exist. Have you got a problem with that?

 

[Fulcanelli]

A back pass in football is a defensive manoeuvre, usually returning the ball to the goalkeeper. It's a perfectly valid and sensible part of the defensive strategy of football. Do you mean a "hospital pass" in rugby, perhaps?

And using phrases like "you people" is perhaps not particularly sensible in the current climate. Particularly when those of us who think Knox and Sollecito might have been unjustly convicted do not fit into a homogeneous grouping.

A defensive manoeuvre. Exactly. Now you begin to grasp the meaning of my post.

 

[Solange305]

A back pass in football is a defensive manoeuvre, usually returning the ball to the goalkeeper. It's a perfectly valid and sensible part of the defensive strategy of football. Do you mean a "hospital pass" in rugby, perhaps?

And using phrases like "you people" is perhaps not particularly sensible in the current climate. Particularly when those of us who think Knox and Sollecito might have been unjustly convicted do not fit into a homogeneous grouping.

Huh???? It's obvious he is referring to people who think Amanda is innocent by "you people". You know, the same way you guys refer to us as "guilters"? Next time you are doing your google searches on scientific research and accumulated/iterated knowledge, you may want to look up the definition of "inference".

 

[Fulcanelli]

She said at first she thought is was an accident. Did she hear the kind of screech that tires make when skidding on concrete? Or maybe a mechanical failure of a car? Have you ever heard the screech made when the power steering or AC pump freezes? What exactly was wrong with the car that was broken down in front of the cottage on the night Meredith was murdered?

A number of people were out that night in the square. If there were such a terrible scream that Nara could hear it behind the double glazed window, the people outside would have easily heard it. They also would have heard a broken car screeching or sounds made by a tow truck picking up a disabled car. They would have heard it much better than Nara and easily identified the actual source. They would have dismissed the car or tow truck noise as just another natural sound of the city.

No she didn't. Where did she say this?

Were they? Where are these people?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Daniel DeLuna

I am merely guessing here, but I dont think the problem was her having sex at her apartment. It was her having one night stands with virtual strangers who could have been serial killers, and like Dan said, wandering the apartment the next morning with the girls not knowing who he is or what he is doing there. If Sollecito is her boyfriend, which he was, and the girls had met him already, I dont see them complaining about him spending the night.

Solange305,

Amanda had a one night stand with Daniel DeLuna. That is the only man she had sex with in the girls' flat, and Meredith was at Giacomo's that night. Once Amanda met Raffaele, she stayed at his place.

 

[Solange305]

Halides, Im not sure if that's true, but if it is, is that the only man she brought home? Maybe the problem wasn't so much she was "having sex" with, but that she was letting strange people into the house.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Solange305,

Amanda had a one night stand with Daniel DeLuna. That is the only man she had sex with in the girls' flat, and Meredith was at Giacomo's that night. Once Amanda met Raffaele, she stayed at his place.

That was the one that had herpes. She knew he had herpes...and she thought that was just great. Now she has herpes too!

 

[Fulcanelli]

Halides, Im not sure if that's true, but if it is, is that the only man she brought home? Maybe the problem wasn't so much she was "having sex" with, but that she was letting strange people into the house.

Yeah...she was doing that too.

 

[LondonJohn]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but would moving the body at all necessarily prove in any way that Amanda and Raff weren't involved? I could be wrong, but I think that is what Fulcanelli meant, not that it was ignored, but just that it wasn't explained in detail because it wouldn't prove their innocence or guilt either way. Im still trying to catch up, I haven't read the whole argument, so I'll let Fulcanelli explain, but that was what I gathered from that...

Yes, it could, because there was a debate about how long after death the body was moved. And since Guede was seen dancing in clubs not too long after the murder, I'd say that this piece of evidence could have had a significant bearing on the guilt or non-guilt of Knox and Sollecito.

Of course, if the judges came to the conclusion that Meredith's body was moved at the time of the attack (as I believe it was), then its probative value against Knox and Solecito (as opposed to Guede) is greatly diminished. But since there were arguments presented that the body was moved some considerable time after death, Massei should have noted that he either a) accepted these arguments and therefore believed that Knox and Sollecito were involved in a post-murder clean up after Guede went clubbing, or b) he did not accept these arguments and therefore the body-moving evidence was of very limited value in determining guilt.

 

[LondonJohn]

That was the one that had herpes. She knew he had herpes...and she thought that was just great. Now she has herpes too!

Just out of interest, where did Knox write or say that she knew the guy had herpes and that this attracted her to him because of his presumed (to her) sexual prowess?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

assumptions about Amanda

Halides, Im not sure if that's true, but if it is, is that the only man she brought home? Maybe the problem wasn't so much she was "having sex" with, but that she was letting strange people into the house.

Solange305,

The man in underwear that Dan brought up was a boyfriend (possible one night stand) of Laura's. I think it is revealing that you assumed he had been with Amanda. Amanda did bring friends home, but at least some of them, like Juve, were known to the other girls. Juve was the only one that Meredith found "strange," as I discussed in a previous comment, and Juve was not a stranger.

Do you or Fulcanelli have a citation on the herpes business? This sounds like another half-true story, or perhaps an outright invention.

 

[Machiavelli]

So much for an extended violent struggle with her assailant(s). It seems that hyperbole in this area suits some people's agendas, even if it's at odds with the scientific evidence.

Yes, like Steve Moore and people on this forum.
If you are not able to follow the logic, just don't follow me.

 

[Solange305]

Here is the entire quote, including what Dan was replying to:

Originally Posted by halides1 View Post
To all,

I would like to address one other attack on Amanda’s character that has shown up here and elsewhere, the charge that she brought home “strange men” to the girls’ flat, with the not too subtle implication that the men were sexual partners. There was only one man whom Meredith thought was strange, and that was Juve, who worked at Le Chic and had a girlfriend (Murder in Italy, pp. 110-116). I hope that we do not have to whack this mole again.

You shouldn't try to downplay all the incidences. There was at least one man that spent the night. What's worse is that the other girls weren't warned but had to discover for them selves when the the guy was found wandering around the cottage in his underwere the next morning.

You are telling me, based on that quote, that Dan was referring to someone Laura brought home???? No. And if he's wrong, then I don't see how it is "revealing that I came to the conclusion that it was Amanda". Again, it's called inference.

 

[LondonJohn]

Yes, like Steve Moore and people on this forum.
If you are not able to follow the logic, just don't follow me.

So do you believe there was an extended violent struggle, based on the injuries to Meredith's torso, arms and hands reported at the autopsy?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

MySpace comment

Here is the entire quote, including what Dan was replying to:




You are telling me, based on that quote, that Dan was referring to someone Laura brought home???? No. And if he's wrong, then I don't see how it is "revealing that I came to the conclusion that it was Amanda". Again, it's called inference.

Solange305,

He was a handyman, and Laura had been complaining about not having had much sex not too long before. The incident is described by a commenter who claims to be quoting from Amanda's MySpace entry from October 15 that can be found in the comments section of one of Frank's entries. Obviously, the story may be inaccurate. If anyone has an archive with her MySpace information, he or she can verify or challenge its veracity.

 

[Danceme]

Yes, it could, because there was a debate about how long after death the body was moved. And since Guede was seen dancing in clubs not too long after the murder, I'd say that this piece of evidence could have had a significant bearing on the guilt or non-guilt of Knox and Sollecito.

Of course, if the judges came to the conclusion that Meredith's body was moved at the time of the attack (as I believe it was), then its probative value against Knox and Solecito (as opposed to Guede) is greatly diminished. But since there were arguments presented that the body was moved some considerable time after death, Massei should have noted that he either a) accepted these arguments and therefore believed that Knox and Sollecito were involved in a post-murder clean up after Guede went clubbing, or b) he did not accept these arguments and therefore the body-moving evidence was of very limited value in determining guilt.

Can you explain why you think this in light of the livor mortis evidence?

 

[LondonJohn]

Can you explain why you think this in light of the livor mortis evidence?

Lalli stated that the livor mortis was found in the posterior area of Meredith's body - i.e. her back and the back of her legs:

"wine-red hypostasis staining was located in the posterior region of the corpse, which became white when pressed with a finger" (Massei report, page 110)

This implies that Meredith was lying on her back prior to livor mortis setting in, which in turn implies that she was moved onto her back before or soon after her death.

 

[Antony]

(msg #7474)
He wrote the word "her hand", right after mentioned MEREDITH's DNA being on the knife. Of course her would mean Meredith. This argument is getting ridiculous now, come on!

Yes, it is getting ridiculous. All you're doing is repeating yourself without trying to understand the other interpretation. Since Amanda is mentioned immediately beforehand, nobody can be sure who he is referring to.

And yes, it IS a factor. If you are trying to prove that two people are innocent after a court finds them guilty, you better be able to answer for EVERYTHING. The burden of proof is now on you.

That's rubbish. Firstly, Amanda and Raffaele are still officially innocent until the appeal process is complete. Secondly, even in the US and certainly in the UK, nobody ever has to prove they're innocent; what they have to do is show that the court reached the wrong verdict in the first trial - on the evidence presented at the time.

The Massei verdict was completely divorced from reality. That is why those who actually want Amanda and Raffaele to be guilty, are only interested in turning unimportant details into something they're not.

 

[Antony]

(msg #7477)
Does it matter? Or are you going to continue to split any possible hair that may show your mermaid in a bad light?

Wow...you people are so invested in Amanda.

What is it that you imagine, at the end of the day, you're going to get back? Or is it a case of geeks sitting at their machines living pure and chaste (that means as virgins in non-poetic language) from afar? Isn't that what porn's for?

So where's your evidence that Sollecito's family and lawyers sold his diary to the media, which is what began the above exchange? Are we to suppose that you made it up?