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WTF is up with violence in Mexico?

Jeebus!

Can a Mexican national just waltz into a US gun store and buy artillery?
Not sure. But I do know anyone can buy a gun at a gun show, and anyone can buy a gun for someone else. So all you need is a drug dealer in the US to buy the gun from the store (or get someone to buy it) then the US drug buyer includes the guns in their drug deal. And the smugglers that brought the drugs across the border just transport the guns back.
 
Jeebus!

Can a Mexican national just waltz into a US gun store and buy artillery?

No. The cartels probably payed Americans to buy the guns for them.

And those stats are BS anyway. Is it really some kind of shocker that most of the guns submitted to the ATF for tracing came from the USA?
 
Not sure. But I do know anyone can buy a gun at a gun show, and anyone can buy a gun for someone else.

The former is somewhat true. If the seller is a private individual and not a federally licensed dealer there is little regulation. The latter is completely false. It is a felony to buy a gun for someone else.
 
I am writing this from a border city across from the USA. Before the 1980's this was a peaceful town, with violent crime indexes much lower than the rest of Mexico. Drug taffic grew progressively from the 1970's, an answer to the increased demand present in the USA. Our local police and judicial authorities recieved hefty bribes to let those early narcos operate on the condition that any violence should be only within rival gangs, and not against the citizentry. "Business" was so good that the cartels became tremendously wealthy and powerful. They acquired heavy weaponry bought in the USA and violence consequently escalated. From the late 90's the drug gangs clearly had more economic and fire power than the local or even state authorities. They had become the bosses that could now dictate to the authorities through intimidation, rather than bribery. The constraint against attacking private citizens disappeared. Besides, since the police force was useless, common criminals could operate with almost complete impunity.

My city's economy has deteriorated severely from all this. National and international investments, I believe, have decreased. Restaurants, doctors, dentists, construction material suppliers, artisans, supermarkets depend strongly on clients from the USA side that have now vanished. Even commerce from locals has diminished. People are afraid and have less money to spend.

In previous posts my paisano, Stup-id, has already mentioned the probable causes of our problems. The unjust distribution of wealth is partly to blame. But we Mexicans need to contemplate our image on the smoking mirror of Tecaztlipoca, unattractive as it might be. Cartel chiefs and corrupt politicians do not come from the poor segments of society. The criminals come from among us, rich or poor, and a large portion of our population tolerates corruption. The USA shares some of the blame: consumption of the drugs, indifference to weapons traffic and reluctance to fight the cartels in USA territory. But the larger portion of the guilt is ours.

Honest, hard-working Mexicans number millions. We will win our country back.
 
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This is no different than what prohibition did to the mafia and Al Capone. It's ridiculous how blind people are to this incarnation of it here.
 
The former is somewhat true. If the seller is a private individual and not a federally licensed dealer there is little regulation. The latter is completely false. It is a felony to buy a gun for someone else.
Oh pluheese. I can buy a gun and sell it to anyone else. What law says I can't do that?
 
I am writing this from a border city across from the USA. Before the 1980's this was a peaceful town, with violent crime indexes much lower than the rest of Mexico. Drug taffic grew progressively from the 1970's, an answer to the increased demand present in the USA. Our local police and judicial authorities recieved hefty bribes to let those early narcos operate on the condition that any violence should be only within rival gangs, and not against the citizentry. "Business" was so good that the cartels became tremendously wealthy and powerful. They acquired heavy weaponry bought in the USA and violence consequently escalated. From the late 90's the drug gangs clearly had more economic and fire power than the local or even state authorities. They had become the bosses that could now dictate to the authorities through intimidation, rather than bribery. The constraint against attacking private citizens disappeared. Besides, since the police force was useless, common criminals could operate with almost complete impunity.

My city's economy has deteriorated severely from all this. National and international investments, I believe, have decreased. Restaurants, doctors, dentists, construction material suppliers, artisans, supermarkets depend strongly on clients from the USA side that have now vanished. Even commerce from locals has diminished. People are afraid and have less money to spend.

In previous posts my paisano, Stup-id, has already mentioned the probable causes of our problems. The unjust distribution of wealth is partly to blame. But we Mexicans need to contemplate our image on the smoking mirror of Tecaztlipoca, unattractive as it might be. Cartel chiefs and corrupt politicians do not come from the poor segments of society. The criminals come from among us, rich or poor, and a large portion of our population tolerates corruption. The USA shares some of the blame: consumption of the drugs, indifference to weapons traffic and reluctance to fight the cartels in USA territory. But the larger portion of the guilt is ours.

Honest, hard-working Mexicans number millions. We will win our country back.
Hi. I'm sorry for your troubles. I've always had a wonderful time traveling in Mexico and Central America and love the people there. But I think the corruption is and has for a long time been a problem in Mexico. It seemed to permeate the whole society. I saw people cut in line in a market when there was a shortage of eggs. That wasn't so unusual. But one day I was in a travel agency when a person came in, struck up a conversation with someone they didn't seem to previously know, and when the first person's turn came up, the other claimed to be with him and essentially cut in line. That memory has been with me since, a person in a suit cutting in line in a travel agency! It seemed to suggest just how pervasive the culture of corruption was.

But there was such a contrast in how nice people were and how they'd go out of their way to help a person without expecting anything in return. And I always felt very safe despite all the rumors of rampant crime. I traveled by myself all over and like I said, the only place I ever had any real trouble was in Nicaragua.

But that trouble was related to the US's intervention supporting regimes in Central America that stayed in power because of US intervention. And because the governments in question used terrorism of their people to maintain their positions of power. I saw a US supplied helicopter land in a small costal town in Mexico between Ixtapa and Puerto Vallarta. All the men in the town disappeared into the countryside. I think this kind of action, supposedly a drug control action, was clearly a 'suppress government opposition' action.

If the US hadn't intervened over the decades, maybe the country would have resolved its problems years ago. Perhaps that's over-simplistic, but I can't see how the US's meddling hasn't had some negative impact given the extent and kind of influence.
 
Depends what state you are in. Every state law is different and it gets complicated if you are selling a gun to someone from another state with different laws from the one you bought the gun in. Also if you do that you have to go through an FFL dealer. Also if you buy a gun for a criminal (or anyone that is prohibited from owning a gun) that is a straw purchase and you will be going to federal prison if the gun is ever recovered.
 
US drug policy (amongst other influences of course) and its insatiable demand created this disaster. It won't change whilst the current policies exist.

I say this authoritatively from behind a keyboard on a completely different continent of course. But I would think it was self evident.

I agree, and I sit here from behind a keyboard in the US at a spot where, if I went a few miles east, I'd, famously, be north of Canada.
 
Mexico seems to be in much the same situation Columbia was in not very long ago. By all accounts, Columbia is making improvements; at least reports I hear on The World and similar shows indicate that's the case.
More investment in job-producing sectors, a gradually-winning war against the FARC, etc.
Unfortunately, many of the big drug lords seem to have picked up shop and moved to Mexico.
Someone joked that we should simply make Mexico a state....
 
Inspired by this thread. which I didn't want to derail with this question.

What's up with the epidemic of violence in Mexico? Or South America in general.

I know that the drug war plays a big part, but apart from that I have read many accounts of horrific violence and many women disappearing, only to turn up dead.

What the hell is causing people to commit such acts in such numbers?

Is it culture? A power vacuum? What?

Don't say it's poverty. I've been to desperately poor places and didn't feel threatened at all.
My wife's uncle does charity work in many of the world's hell-holes and the only places where he has feared for his life were in South America. Nobody chased him through the slums of Calcutta with a Machete, but in Venezuela he had to arm himself to keep somewhat safe.

For that matter, I used to live in Merida when I did a semester abroad for an anthropology project at the Universidad de Yucatan. My boyfriend, who I met there, lived in a very poor area, and I also volunteered in one of the poorest parts of the city, and I never felt in danger there. Yucatan, though, had long been mostly free of the drug cartels and violence that had long plagued other parts of the country. Unfortunately, the violence has become so widespread that it has even started to spill into this part of the country. In 2008, 12 decapitated bodies were found in Merida.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laplaza/2008/08/12-decapitated.html

The violence is still rare enough in Yucatan that it would not keep me from going back there, but who knows if things are going to get progressively worse.
 
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Depends what state you are in. Every state law is different and it gets complicated if you are selling a gun to someone from another state with different laws from the one you bought the gun in. Also if you do that you have to go through an FFL dealer. Also if you buy a gun for a criminal (or anyone that is prohibited from owning a gun) that is a straw purchase and you will be going to federal prison if the gun is ever recovered.
Cite the law in any state that says I can't report the gun lost, stolen, loaned or given as a gift to someone. Do you think these guns are going to be sold and registered to the drug dealer? You aren't being very realistic here.
 
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I've recently seen two young people diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder and Schizoaffective Disorder, directly linked to chronic marijuana use.

IMO, it's time we stopped the denial about the harm caused by marijuana. I think that the modern weed makes people go crazy. It alters the ventricles in the brain. One doctor I heard said that he's seen brain scans of people who chronically smoked marijuana and their brains showed the same sort of damage as heroin addicts.

America has to stop its habit through eduction. Colleges have to stop turning a blind eye to students who smoke weed. They have to deny scholarships, close the Medical Marijuana clinics within walking distance from their campuses, stop college psychologists from talking up the harmless effects of pot.


I hate to break it to you, but your opinion is downright laughable. I live in a state where weed is decriminalized, and I lived in Amsterdam for awhile. The idea that you think weed makes you go crazy is...that's just insane. Do you know what weed does? It makes cookies taste better, music sound cooler, and it makes things seem funnier than they actually are.

As someone who has smoked weed and drank alcohol...there is simply no comparison. The effects of alcohol are immeasurably stronger than those on weed. Even in Amsterdam, smoking the most I ever have, and we're talking of the strongest weed available, I have never been anywhere near as incapacitated as I have been when I have gotten even mildly drunk.

Having lived in areas where weed is decriminalized, I have known more people who smoke weed than who do not. I have never in my life known anyone who did anything on weed that would be considered "acting crazy" as you would call it. Do you know who is a huge user of weed? Health care workers. I have worked in several of the top hospitals in the world (again, in a state where it is decriminalized) and people talk openly about smoking weed, and this is including some of the top doctors in the world who work there. Most hospitals don't even have an anti drug policy with their workers, aside from (obviously) you cannot be high at work. This is because, as health care workers, we're more aware even than most people of the fact that the kind of crap you're talking about is nothing but paranoid propaganda that is unsupported by medical evidence.

Yes, you're right, laughing harder than I normally would have at an episode of Seinfeld truly makes me a danger to society.

Now certainly, people who ALREADY HAVE PSYCHIATRIC CONDITIONS, or who are already predisposed to such conditions, depending on what the condition is, may indeed find that condition exacerbated by pot, just as they would by alcohol. Also, it is possible to have a bad reaction to pot even without underlying psychiatric problems. I've seen people smoke pot and have a bad reaction, varying from paranoia to nausea to feeling depressed; and as a result, they simply don't smoke pot again. But by the same token, I tend to react really badly to getting even mildly drunk...I get extremely sick, vomiting, etc, for hours, even after only drinking enough to get me really buzzed, not even drunk, thus I no longer have more than one or two drinks.

And if you are a chronic, heavy pot user, they yes, it could have signficant adverse affects on your health and mental cognition. I would never argue that smoking pot all day every day is a good thing. Do you also want to illegalize caffeine, asprin, alcohol, any food that isn't a fruit or vegetable, etc, considering all these things when done to excess are also bad for you, and in fact, all these things are far more dangerous than pot when done in excess.

Seriously, get yourself to Amsterdam and go to a coffeeshop. Do you know what you'll see there? People playing chess. People reading books, people talking quietly over a cup of coffee. It is nothing like the often riotous atmospheres of a crowded bar. The fact that you think pot smokers are these out of control crazy people is just....it's stupid. There's no other way to put it. It's a completely stupid opinion based on ignorance. Do you know how Harvard medical school describes pot? I'll quote you: "appears to be a relatively mild intoxicant, with minor, real, shortlived effects."

And people like you really should be ashamed of yourselves. You have this false view of what pot smokers are like based on you being an EXTREMELY sheltered individual and a slave to propaganda. You want to deny kids scholarships because they puffed a joint that has no where near the effect of alcohol? People like you are the reason draconian drug laws are kept in placed that ruin peoples lives. I want to repeat that: PEOPLE LIKE YOU RUIN LIVES. FOR NO GOOD REASON.

If pot is so dangerous, why are ALL the pot smokers I know, even people I know who are REGULAR pot smokers, successful indididuals (several of them doctors, lawyers, and PhD holders) who have never once done anything crazy while high? Are there unproductive loser potheads? Of course. And there are plenty of losers who have never smoked pot in their lives.

Why is it that when I went to the Boston Hemp Fest last weekend, which is attended by tens of thousands of people (most of them there smoking), why did the crowd consist of people sitting or milling around quietly and calmly? If pot makes people go crazy, as you said, then why was I surrounded for hours by tens of thousands of pot smokers and not one single person did one single thing crazy thing?
 
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Interesting in this news story that the asylum granted this reporter was apparently based on the fact the Chihuahua state officials are persecuting reporters, not just the drug cartels.

Mexican Journalists Flee Drug War, Seek Asylum
Aguirre edits the hard-hitting, irreverent website LaPolaka.com that covers Juarez, Mexico. He fled his city nearly two years ago when he received a death threat, he believes, for writing critically about powerful Chihuahua state officials....

...Aguirre is believed to be the only Mexican journalist to be granted asylum since the cartel war has exploded in the past four years.
 
I hate to break it to you, but your opinion is downright laughable. I live in a state where weed is decriminalized, and I lived in Amsterdam for awhile. The idea that you think weed makes you go crazy is...that's just insane. Do you know what weed does? It makes cookies taste better, music sound cooler, and it makes things seem funnier than they actually are.

As someone who has smoked weed and drank alcohol...there is simply no comparison. The effects of alcohol are immeasurably stronger than those on weed. Even in Amsterdam, smoking the most I ever have, and we're talking of the strongest weed available, I have never been anywhere near as incapacitated as I have been when I have gotten even mildly drunk.

Having lived in areas where weed is decriminalized, I have known more people who smoke weed than who do not. I have never in my life known anyone who did anything on weed that would be considered "acting crazy" as you would call it. Do you know who is a huge user of weed? Health care workers. I have worked in several of the top hospitals in the world (again, in a state where it is decriminalized) and people talk openly about smoking weed, and this is including some of the top doctors in the world who work there. Most hospitals don't even have an anti drug policy with their workers, aside from (obviously) you cannot be high at work. This is because, as health care workers, we're more aware even than most people of the fact that the kind of crap you're talking about is nothing but paranoid propaganda that is unsupported by medical evidence.

Yes, you're right, laughing harder than I normally would have at an episode of Seinfeld truly makes me a danger to society.

Now certainly, people who ALREADY HAVE PSYCHIATRIC CONDITIONS, or who are already predisposed to such conditions, depending on what the condition is, may indeed find that condition exacerbated by pot, just as they would by alcohol. Also, it is possible to have a bad reaction to pot even without underlying psychiatric problems. I've seen people smoke pot and have a bad reaction, varying from paranoia to nausea to feeling depressed; and as a result, they simply don't smoke pot again. But by the same token, I tend to react really badly to getting even mildly drunk...I get extremely sick, vomiting, etc, for hours, even after only drinking enough to get me really buzzed, not even drunk, thus I no longer have more than one or two drinks.

And if you are a chronic, heavy pot user, they yes, it could have signficant adverse affects on your health and mental cognition. I would never argue that smoking pot all day every day is a good thing. Do you also want to illegalize caffeine, asprin, alcohol, any food that isn't a fruit or vegetable, etc, considering all these things when done to excess are also bad for you, and in fact, all these things are far more dangerous than pot when done in excess.

Seriously, get yourself to Amsterdam and go to a coffeeshop. Do you know what you'll see there? People playing chess. People reading books, people talking quietly over a cup of coffee. It is nothing like the often riotous atmospheres of a crowded bar. The fact that you think pot smokers are these out of control crazy people is just....it's stupid. There's no other way to put it. It's a completely stupid opinion based on ignorance. Do you know how Harvard medical school describes pot? I'll quote you: "appears to be a relatively mild intoxicant, with minor, real, shortlived effects."

And people like you really should be ashamed of yourselves. You have this false view of what pot smokers are like based on you being an EXTREMELY sheltered individual and a slave to propaganda. You want to deny kids scholarships because they puffed a joint that has no where near the effect of alcohol? People like you are the reason draconian drug laws are kept in placed that ruin peoples lives. I want to repeat that: PEOPLE LIKE YOU RUIN LIVES. FOR NO GOOD REASON.

If pot is so dangerous, why are ALL the pot smokers I know, even people I know who are REGULAR pot smokers, successful indididuals (several of them doctors, lawyers, and PhD holders) who have never once done anything crazy while high? Are there unproductive loser potheads? Of course. And there are plenty of losers who have never smoked pot in their lives.

Why is it that when I went to the Boston Hemp Fest last weekend, which is attended by tens of thousands of people (most of them there smoking), why did the crowd consist of people sitting or milling around quietly and calmly? If pot makes people go crazy, as you said, then why was I surrounded for hours by tens of thousands of pot smokers and not one single person did one single thing crazy thing?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070324132832.htm
 
:dl:

Must be interesting living with such irrational fears. How often do you watch Reefer Madness? Obviously it's off topic for this thread, but you should start a thread on this. Use that fear filled rant you posted above as the opening post. Could be good for a lot of laughs.

Sorry to have gone off topic. I will open another thread about marijuana's connection to mental illness shortly.
 

Maybe you should actually read before you post.

If cannabis causes schizophrenia - and that remains in question

This has not been conclusively shown.


Model projections suggest that if the association is confined to heavy cannabis users only

I already stated that heavy, chronic cannabis use is not good for you, in the same way that heavy red meat consumption increases your risk of colon cancer by 20%, and excess drinking increases your risk of a wide host of diseases. Are you proposing we illegalize red meat and alcohol?

Also, in my post, I clearly stated that people predisposed to mental illness certainly could be affected by pot (as they also would be by alcohol)

Also, the same website you listed "sciencedaily" listed a follow up study to the one you posted:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091022101538.htm


Titled:

Minimal Relationship Between Cannabis And Schizophrenia Or Psychosis, Suggested By New Study

Quote:

But our evidence suggests that focusing on schizophrenia may have been misguided

Again, you should be ashamed of yourself. And you just embarrass yourself by posting a study which actually does not support your opinion, but rather goes against it, since the study you posted specifically states that their information only applies to heavy users, not regular pot smokers, and this study's website had a follow up study which further states that the association between schizophrenia & pot is minimal, and even that minimal figure is non conclusive.

It's very amusing though, to me, that in an attempt to prove you are not ignorant, you put up a link which just makes you look even more ignorant, since you obviously did not even read the link nor the follow up study associated with it. The fact that you list "evidence" you did not even read yourself shows how poor you are at forming your opinions. Obviously you are someone who is looking for facts to support your opinion, not someone whose opinion is upheld by facts. So you desperately googled to try and find something that supported your opinion, thought you found it, then posted it here without even bothering to READ IT, because if you had you would see that it clearly states this study only applies to heavy users and is non conclusive.
 
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Sorry to have gone off topic. I will open another thread about marijuana's connection to mental illness shortly.


Don't bother. You are woefully unqualified. You post studies you don't even read, then don't bother to look to see if those studies have had follow up studies.

I absolutely do not deny that heavy marijuana use is a hazard both for physical or mental health, as is drinking and eating. I am both a Harvard grad student (at the Harvard extension grad school, which is different from regular Harvard...don't want to give the impression that I am intelligent enough to get into Harvard's regular graduate program, but we are privy to the same material they are) and Harvard health care employee who has read many, many Harvard studies on weed. ANY study I have EVER seen about adverse affects of pot applies to heavy users, which again, is true for a whole host of other substances as well.
 
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BTW it's the threat of the violence spilling over in the US that is driving a lot of the anti Immigration movement in the US. It's a case of a legitimate concern being used by demogogues for their own ends.

No its not.

The fact of violence spilling over (not the threat of) is driving some of the anti *ILLEGAL* immigration movement that's been going on for 50 years or so
 
Maybe you should actually read before you post...

I already stated that heavy, chronic cannabis use is not good for you, in the same way that heavy red meat consumption increases your risk of colon cancer by 20%, and excess drinking increases your risk of a wide host of diseases. Are you proposing we illegalize red meat and alcohol?

Also, in my post, I also clearly stated that people predisposed to mental illness certainly could be affected by pot (as they also would be by alcohol)

Also, the same website you listed "sciencedaily" listed a follow up study to the one you posted:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091022101538.htm

Titled:

Minimal Relationship Between Cannabis And Schizophrenia Or Psychosis, Suggested By New Study

Quote:

But our evidence suggests that focusing on schizophrenia may have been misguided

I'm glad that the study proved itself to be unbiased. The fact that scientists made the effort to investigate this question in the first place indicates that at least the social climate is moving away from denial.

Again, you should be ashamed of yourself
Just checked my shame meter, and it still registers zero.

If anyone wants to follow up this subject on a more relevant forum, I've started a new thread here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186589
 

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