Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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Fiona said:
DOC, it is usual to try to hide the fact that you do not read other people's posts. Not compulsory or anything....but the kind of polite that sums to "hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue"
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I noticed you didn't provide the link either.
 
Fiona said:
Why don't you, if it helps your case?
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Because I've got another 15 or so other questions directed my way. No way Ramsay believed some of the things Lothian attributed to Ramsay as being his beliefs. Lothian should prove me wrong since he brought in those statements. I'm challenging him to bring in the whole paragraphs of his quote mined passages.
 
A Lurker said:
I can quote important historical figures like Mohammed and Imam Abu hanifa (who had tremendous historical importance by greatly changing the mighty Ottoman, and earlier the Mongol Empire which was the largest the world has ever seen) when I'm talking of the historical environment of the time.
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Yes, you can, just like I should be able to quote the historical figures Peter and Paul when they talk about the hardships and danger of preaching in their time without people saying "you are using the bible to prove the bible".
 
DOC said:
Because I've got another 15 or so other questions directed my way. No way Ramsay believed some of the things Lothian attributed to Ramsay as being his beliefs. Lothian should prove me wrong since he brought in those statements. I'm challenging him to bring in the whole paragraphs of his quote mined passages.
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As you have yet to answer even a single question* directed at you, I fail to see why having a backlog of such should impede you.

Take the time to answer a question.



* I admit you have responded, but thus far your responses have been nothing but links, cut&paste nonsense, and redirects to your earlier posts (which were in turn links and cut&pastes).
 
DOC said:
Then why did Sir William Mitchell Ramsay call Luke one of the world's greatest historians {regarding facts that can be verified by historical and archaeological means}. Why don't you include the whole paragraph of each of the above. I doubt you will.
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And why don't your mention the fact that the Modern expert* on New testament Exegesis, leading authority on St. Paul and Dominican priest, Fr. Jerome Murphy O'Connor, stated that Luke fabricated the Census story?

*(meaning aware of all new archeological discoveries that Ramsay never knew)
 
DOC said:
Then why did Sir William Mitchell Ramsay call Luke one of the world's greatest historians {regarding facts that can be verified by historical and archaeological means}. Why don't you include the whole paragraph of each of the above. I doubt you will.
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DOC said:
Because I've got another 15 or so other questions directed my way. No way Ramsay believed some of the things Lothian attributed to Ramsay as being his beliefs. Lothian should prove me wrong since he brought in those statements. I'm challenging him to bring in the whole paragraphs of his quote mined passages.
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I think you may be just slightly missing the subtle point that I suspect Lothian just may be trying to make. I have just the barest inkling of a suspicion that Lothian may be suggesting that you are citing Ramsay somewhat selectively, that you may even be quote mining Ramsay. I know this is very subtle and easy to miss; it's not as if he used the term "quote mine" or anything. Oh, wait:

Lothian said:
As if anyone would quote mine Ramsay.
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Hokulele said:
It is even worse than that. DOC is trying to get a free pass in establishing the various denizens of the New Testament as historical without any, you know, evidence to that effect.

DOC, just because there are some historical figures in the NT does not in any way act as evidence that all the characters were real people, exactly as described.
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List all the people in the NT you believe are not real and why?

And there were 30 historical figures listed in the NT that can be verified by non-biblical and archaeological sources. That's a lot of nieces, nephews, children, grandchildren, friends, historians etc. that can say: "hey, my father or my grandfather or my childhood friend, or that historical figure, never did what you wrote he did. But there are no reports of the day of any of these people saying "hey, this stuff about that person is not true". Translation: it was true.

Do you think there are any Kennedy relatives, or friends, or historians, or just plain normal citizens, that remember the deaths of John and Robert Kennedy 47 and 42 years ago?
 
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DOC said:
And there were 30 historical figures listed in the NT that can be verified by non-biblical and archaeological sources. That's a lot of nieces, nephews, children, grandchildren, friends, historians etc. that can say: "hey, my father or my grandfather or my childhood friend, or that historical figure, never did what you wrote he did. But there are no reports of the day of any of these people saying "hey, this stuff about that person is not true". Translation: it was true.

Do you think there are any Kennedy relatives, or friends, or historians, or just plain normal citizens, that remember the deaths of John and Robert Kennedy 47 and 42 years ago?
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So? just because a work of fiction includes real people doesn't mean that work of fiction is true.

Indeed, you have already admitted
DOC said:
I never liked to read fiction that much
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So your ability to reject this argument is nullified.
Or as I had already said
joobz said:
In other words, When it was explained to you that your evidence in the OP wasn't logically sound as they are all common aspects of many works of fiction, you had no basis to reject our statements.

An honest person at that point would admit that they were unaware of it and would rescind the claim. Instead, you continued to push those arguments as though you had a basis by which to support your claims. Unfortunately, you have now just admitted your only basis for supporting those arguments was ignorance.

As a refresher:


There you go. Each of these points can be found in many works of fiction. They are, in no way, evidence of truth.
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Lucian said:
I think you may be just slightly missing the subtle point that I suspect Lothian just may be trying to make. I have just the barest inkling of a suspicion that Lothian may be suggesting that you are citing Ramsay somewhat selectively, that you may even be quote mining Ramsay. I know this is very subtle and easy to miss; it's not as if he used the term "quote mine" or anything. Oh, wait:
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So then you don't think Lothian's post 15353 would confuse or possibly grossly misinform someone who is new to the thread?
 
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DOC just 'sent me a PM conceding that all his arguments are horribly flawed'.

The quotation marks here may or may not indicate that I am lying.

If this is not true, he will indicate that I am lying.
 
DOC said:
Then why did Sir William Mitchell Ramsay call Luke one of the world's greatest historians {regarding facts that can be verified by historical and archaeological means}.
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Because he didn't know any better!

How many decades have passed since Sir William wrote that?
 
DOC said:
So then you don't think his post would confuse or possibly grossly misinform someone who is new to the thread?
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No more so than many of your posts. For instance
This post
DOC said:
Huh, what link are you talking about?
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Would give the impression that such evidence wasn't presented.
Yet, i've provided the source at least 4 times.
joobz said:
Well, the first post was here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6286257#post6286257
But then was also referenced
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6287649#
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6298281#post6298281
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DOC,

Why are you PMing your arguments?

If you have any Evidence For Why We Know the New Testament Writers Told The Truth, you should post it here, on the forlorn thread you started.
 
DOC said:
Yes, you can, just like I should be able to quote the historical figures Peter and Paul when they talk about the hardships and danger of preaching in their time without people saying "you are using the bible to prove the bible".
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Stop being so dishonest DOC; That's not what you originally wrote, nor is it what I was responding too; You referred to the Roman Empire as an example of the powerful Christian religion that had changed a previously Pagan empire; And edited to make this clear, you mentioned nothing about what their claims were, only that they must be historical because they changed "the mighty Roman Empire." The answer to that of course is that Islam changed the world's largest ever Empire, the Mongol Empire. And an Empire much more famed for brutality than the Roman Empire ever was...

And that little deceptive side step away from an argument you know you lost doesn't allow you to make the next argument about Peter and Paul either, that instead it proves their stories must have been true, because all your sources are still from the Bible. There is none, nada, zero evidence from the Roman Empire, or any other contemporary record that testifies to the experiences of Peter and Paul except... Peter and Paul and their writings that eventually became the Bible. All you have is what they say they thought they saw, both temporal and spiritual.

But even if their were reporting accurately on at least the earthly facts, so what? That just allows us to go back to square one and say this must prove Islam is in fact the greater religion, because well... look at those Muslims go!

Mongol_Empire_map.gif
 
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Twiler said:
DOC just 'sent me a PM conceding that all his arguments are horribly flawed'.

The quotation marks here may or may not indicate that I am lying.

If this is not true, he will indicate that I am lying.
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Just now, Barack Obama, George Bush, Fred Phelps, Hulk Hogan, George Hrab, Rush Limbaugh, Frank Stallone, The New York Nicks, And Carrot top all contacted me telling me that Voldemort is back and we should all be very scared.
 
joobz said:
Just now, Barack Obama, George Bush, Fred Phelps, Hulk Hogan, George Hrab, Rush Limbaugh, Frank Stallone, The New York Nicks, And Carrot top all contacted me telling me that Voldemort is back and we should all be very scared.
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Ahh yes, which reminds me, we also mustn't forget that the only part of the post I made, and which DOC responded too was the one he could warp towards once more proselytizing, at least if put through the dishonesty filter first; but apparently admitting that he knows absolutely nothing about the modern world, and Harry Potter (a work of pure fiction) has had entire city-sized parks dedicated to it amongst other things was too much for this man and his little faith.
 
Twiler said:
DOC just 'sent me a PM conceding that all his arguments are horribly flawed'.

The quotation marks here may or may not indicate that I am lying.

If this is not true, he will indicate that I am lying.
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There is no such PM.
 
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