Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

Status
Not open for further replies.
carlitos said:
Can someone point me to a serious discussion or book about the whittling down from various gospels, letters and epistles into the New Testament canon? Just curious.
Click to expand...


I do not believe that there one clear history for that.

The various Christians traditions progressively emerged and grew from whatever common body of stories that started it all. Some of them grew more successful, other got retired.

The council of Nicea is pretty well known event, but, as far as I understand, the council mostly granted it seals of approval to the stories they were most familiar with (hence the fact that three out of four gospels came from the tradition developed in the same general region the council was conducted at and in which most of the council's members were educated).

But there does not seem to have been a concerted or conscious effort to decide what was going to go in the New Testament.
Impose it after the facts and quench dissenting version of Christianity, yes, but not to decide what was going in. It seem more like an organic evolution of the meme...
 
carlitos said:
Which is interesting, given that the phrase was used in the gospels. That's where it originated, after all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_testament#Etymology_of_the_term_.22New_Testament.22



Can someone point me to a serious discussion or book about the whittling down from various gospels, letters and epistles into the New Testament canon? Just curious.
Click to expand...

I haven't looked at it in years, but I think that Bruce Metzger would probably be helpful: Canon of the New Testament
 
Last edited:
There are around 36 authors of the babble. Which one of them wrote the truth?
 
DOC doesn't need to "stir the pot," the thread is at the top of the forum and that is all that matters to him
 
DOC is telling lies for god. I have a book here by that title written by climate skeptic, scientist and atheist Ian Plimer. He is not so much a climate skeptic, he does admit it. He has proof it's not caused by human activity.
 
Did you know, by the way, that I'm a great historian? Perhaps I haven't told you, but this is the truth. I know, because my mother said so in my teens. If I was good then, I must surely be great now. And mother actually know me, we have met several times. She was a teacher, so she obviously knew what she was talking about when she said I was great at history!

Or wait, did she say histrionics? Never mind, it's the same thing, surely. They are very close in the dictionary.

And you can tell that Aberhaten person that the Sabbath is on Mondays, because that is the first day of the week.
 
Akhenaten said:
What would Sir Ramsay do?
Click to expand...

Filippo Lippi said:
Who cares? He's dead now, with dishonest quoting we can make him do anything.
Click to expand...
As if anyone would quote mine Ramsay.
BTW anyone read his THE BEARING OF RECENT DISCOVERY ON THE TRUSTWORTHINESS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT recently?

He makes some interesting arguments.

Preface vii
"No one can comprehend Luke"

page 231
"Luke was all wrong about Herod, and about Quirinius"

page 235
"Luke, while desiring to be true, was guilty of an astonishing series of blunders in fact"

Page 253
"the idea of every person going to his own home to be enrolled was a pure fiction, and could not possibly have been true : it was a mere device to explain how Jesus could be born in Bethlehem of parents who lived in Nazareth : it was a false explanation of an invented occurrence: Jesus, if born at all, was born in the home of his parents."

page 273
"Luke was an incapable and untrustworthy historian"
 
Last edited:
Akhenaten said:
Last I heard, Aberhaten wanted to go on a sabbatical, but was having trouble establishing which day was actually the Sabbath.

What would Sir Ramsay do?
Click to expand...
That bastard Aberhaten was at my place last night drinking all my beer. Now, the fact that I don't keep beer on hand meant that he had to bring it over, break into my house (because I wasn't home), give me the beer, then drink it all and, worst of all, clean up after hisself. This is quite a feat.
 
Last edited:
Less than two hours to go; I'm so excited! He's going to keep us guessing until the last minute, isn't he? But it's going to be worth the wait, I'm sure.
 
DOC said:
Well the Gospel writer Luke who has been called one the of the world's great historians (regarding things that can be verified by historical and archaeological evidence) wrote that the apostle James was martyred. That is real historical evidence, ask any historian.

Not only that but this great historian Luke reports the apostles were constantly preaching even though they knew it was extremely dangerous. The book of Acts Chapter 5: 17-42 reports the apostles were thrown in jail for preaching weeks after the resurrection and the very next day they were out preaching again. They were flogged because of that and threatened again with jail but they still kept preaching daily

Acts 5: 40 They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.

Acts 5: 41 The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name. Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ.

So we have historical writings from a known great historian that the apostles were continuing to preach even though they had been put in jail and flogged for it and warned not to do it anymore. Does this sound like an environment where the apostles could be martyred like Stephen (reported by Luke) and the apostle James (reported by Luke) - yes, most definitely. So we have definite historical evidence people at that time were being martyred and we have historical evidence that the apostles were daily engaged in activities that could have gotten them at the very least put in jail and flogged; and if fact did get them put in jail and flogged.

Oh, I know, now some skeptic may say but it's in the bible. And I say the NT writers never heard the word "New Testament" or Bible because the Bible didn't exist yet. These men (like the physician Luke) were reporting on the facts and information of the day just like any reporter or historian would. The fact that their writings became part of a book (the Bible) officially formed hundreds of years later does not affect the historicity of those writings (especially regarding Luke).

And then there are the apostles Peter and Paul. We know both of them ended up preaching in Rome of all places.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85633

Does that sound like a dangerous thing to do under the reign of Nero who was impaling Christians and setting them on fire to provide light for his parties?

Given all of the above, it is certainly reasonable to believe that the oral tradition evidence (which was very important in that day of little literacy and no paper) regarding the martyrdom of the apostles was accurate.
Click to expand...

shawmutt said:
...This is all you have after 10 days of research?...
Click to expand...

Who said I spent 10 days doing actual research?

And here are some more writings from Peter, Paul, and Luke describing the danger and difficulty of preaching in those times. Certainly conditions ripe for being martyred in the Roman Empire.

1 Peter 4: 12-19
1 Peter 5: 8-9
1 Peter 2: 19-21
1 Peter 4: 1-4

Phil 1: 29-30
Thesalonians 3: 7-8
Acts 22: 4-5
Romans 5: 3-4
1 Cor 4: 11-13
 
Last edited:
DOC said:
Who said I spent 10 days doing actual research?
Click to expand...

Or any, ever?

And here are some more writings from Peter, Paul, and Luke describing the danger and difficulty of preaching in those times. Certainly conditions ripe for being martyred in the Roman Empire.

1 Peter 4: 12-19
1 Peter 5: 8-9
1 Peter 2: 19-21
1 Peter 4: 1-6

Phil 1: 29-30
Thesalonians 3: 7-8
Acts 22: 4-5
Romans 5: 3-4
1 Cor 4: 12-14
Click to expand...
This isn't circular reasoning?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom