Merged Two Mosques to be built near Ground Zero

JonathanS said:
Fair enough. Here's a question:

(From the Cordoba Initiative FAQ) "Hamas is both a political movement and a terrorist organization. When Hamas commits atrocious acts of terror, those actions should be condemned. Imam Feisal has forcefully and consistently condemned all forms of terrorism, including those committed by Hamas, as un-Islamic."

If a Palestinian suicide bomber detonates on a bus filled with innocent Israelis, the Imam will rightfully condemn the act as an atrocious terror attack -- which it is. I'm cool with that.

But does the Imam condemn Hamas for its political agenda and recognize it as a terrorist organization even when it is not physically carrying out rocket attacks and/or suicide bombings? If kids in Gaza grow up watching/reading/listening to Hamas propaganda (cartoons that glorify jihad and killing "evil Zionists and Crusaders", hate filled text books in elementary school, etc), which is not in and of itself necessarily a terrorist attack that kills civilians, does he condemn the Hamas rhetoric and mindset?

I'm asking because I have already lost two high school friends to Hamas terrorism. If someone can answer this question (and prove it) that will be enough for me to join the bandwagon and fully support this project.
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Uh, you quoted right there where he calls Hamas a "terrorist organization", separate from and in addition to him saying that their acts of terror should also be condemned.

He has written extensively about the right of Israel to live in peace and security, and how no peace deal with the Palestinians can really matter unless it also gives Israelis that security and "multigenerational safety from annihilation," as he writes in his book.

He also decries the anti-Semitism so prevalent in the Muslim world, and has said that statements by the Palestinians that "they will never negotiate with an outlaw Israeli state simply ensure that the conflict continues to claim its tragic toll of innocent lives on both sides. The bloodshed will not end until both sides grow weary of the killing and are finally ready to talk. Not stage talk designed for the ears of the United States or the United Nations, but real talk."
 
JonathanS said:
I'm their biggest enemy. Literally. I stand for and am the embodiment of everything those two groups hate.

1. I'm Jewish (well, a hardcore atheist, but to them I'm a Zionist Jew). If you want proof I can show you my c--k.:p
2. I'm an American citizen.
3. I support the IDF, have two brothers in the IDF and many friends in the US Marine Corp.
4. I despise Islamic terrorism and Sharia law and I'm vocal about it both online and in real life.
5. I would gladly open my bank account for inspection. I'd gladly let anyone search my house, my computer. Tap my phones. Credit cards -- you name it, it's all good.
6. I'd gladly agree to be interrogated and agree to the interrogation of all my friends and family.
7. I'd be willing to participate in any other form of investigation.
8. Give me a microphone and a webcam and I will publicly bash Hamas and Hezbollah with a smile on my face.
9. I will gladly burn a Quran and post it on youtube without wearing a mask.
10. Anything else you can think of..
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that sounds pretty suspicious.....
Islam encourages you to lie to advance the Muslim World Domination.
i think you are a "atheist" in public and a closet islamist, your "evidence" is well prepared, you would not offer to let us search your house otherwise.

but however, your list shows that you are not really a skeptic and a bit bigoted to put it mild.
 
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DC said:
that sounds pretty suspicious.....
Islam encourages you to lie to advance the Muslim World Domination.
i think you are a "atheist" in public and a closet islamist, your "evidence" is well prepared, you would not offer to let us search your house otherwise.

but however, your list shows that you are not really a skeptic and a bit bigoted to put it mild.
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Man you guys know which buttons to push don't you...:p

Well, enjoy your mosque, you deserve it!
 
JonathanS said:
But does the Imam condemn Hamas for its political agenda and recognize it as a terrorist organization even when it is not physically carrying out rocket attacks and/or suicide bombings?
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You know, it's pretty tiresome when you tell us what you need to get behind the project and when we give you exactly what you ask, you invent a new hurdle for him to overcome. This is the sort of thing that indicates ot us that you're not actually interested in accord, but finding something, anything, to attack him with.

If kids in Gaza grow up watching/reading/listening to Hamas propaganda (cartoons that glorify jihad and killing "evil Zionists and Crusaders", hate filled text books in elementary school, etc), which is not in and of itself necessarily a terrorist attack that kills civilians, does he condemn the Hamas rhetoric and mindset?
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Yes, he does. In his book, What is Right With Islam, he condemns all the antisemitism prevalent in the Muslim world (which clearly includes the things you state above), and states that this attitude is destroying any hope for peace with Israel.

I'm asking because I have already lost two high school friends to Hamas terrorism.
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I'm sorry about your loss, but that's not justification for requiring people to make public statements in order to get your support.

If someone can answer this question (and prove it) that will be enough for me to join the bandwagon and fully support this project.
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I guess we'll find out.
 
I don't know what that would show. Male circumcision, while not a religious obligation, is customary for all Muslim boys. Somewhere between 80-100% of all Muslim males are circumcised.
 
JonathanS said:
Why wouldn't they? It's an "interfaith center" after all, isn't it? :rolleyes:
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It is, and DC's doubts are unfounded. It will be open to the public. It's supposed to be modeled on the 92nd Street Y which, despite being a Jewish organization, holds many public functions open to all faiths.
 
JonathanS said:
Why wouldn't they? It's an "interfaith center" after all, isn't it? :rolleyes:
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From his op-ed that I linked above:

"At Cordoba House, we envision shared space for community activities, like a swimming pool, classrooms and a play space for children. There will be separate prayer spaces for Muslims, Christians, Jews and men and women of other faiths. The center will also include a multifaith memorial dedicated to victims of the Sept. 11 attacks."
 
marksman said:
I don't know what that would show. Male circumcision, while not a religious obligation, is customary for all Muslim boys. Somewhere between 80-100% of all Muslim males are circumcised.
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Good point. These days a circumsized penis can belong to pretty much anyone under the sun.
 
DC said:
that may be, but im not sure if they regard my atheism as a faith.
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Well if they don't accept you for being an atheist, they won't accept me either. But I have a feeling that if the Imam's intentions are genuine, an atheist will be accepted with open arms. If bridge building is the goal, atheists should be considered as well. Heck, in twenty years we'll probably be the majority of the country.
 
JonathanS,

Holy crud, two people have posted links showing all people will be admitted to the center! Will you please read what people are writing?!
 
marksman said:
JonathanS,

Holy crud, two people have posted links showing all people will be admitted to the center! Will you please read what people are writing?!
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Will you please lighten up?

Do I have to spell it out for you? I concede my argument.
 
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I'll lighten up when you read people's substantive posts.

You promised to support the project with evidence that Rauf condemned Hamas' politics. two people gave you evidence of it -- or at least told you where to find that evidence. You didn't do what you were promised. Instead you're just jumping onto DC's speculation (unfounded as it turns out) that the mosque won't let non-Muslims in the door.
 
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