UN Panel: Gaza flotilla attack = war crime.

JihadJane

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JihadJane
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"'UN panel accuses Israel of war crimes for 'unlawful' assault on Gaza flotilla

Israel dismisses report of 'unnecessary and incredibly violent' attack as 'politicised and extremist'"



A United Nations panel of human rights experts has accused Israel of war crimes through willful killing, unnecessary brutality and torture in its "clearly unlawful" assault on a ship attempting to break the blockade of Gaza in May in which nine Turkish activists died.

The report by three experts appointed by the UN's Human Rights Council (UNHRC) described the seizure of MV Mavi Marmara, a Turkish vessel, by Israeli commandos as illegal under international law.

It condemned the treatment of the passengers and crew as brutal and disproportionate. It also said that the Israeli blockade of the Palestinian enclave is illegal because of the scale of the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

"There is clear evidence to support prosecutions of the following crimes within the terms of article 147 of the fourth Geneva convention: wilful killing; torture or inhuman treatment; wilfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health," the report said.

"A series of violations of international law, including international humanitarian and human rights law, were committed by the Israeli forces during the interception of the flotilla and during the detention of passengers in Israel prior to deportation."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/23/un-panel-israel-war-crimes

The report (pdf)
 
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Oh noes! The club of dictators, theocrats, and strongmen that make up the UNHRC has condemned Israel yet again!

I'm shocked, shocked, shocked!
 
nvidiot said:
So no substantial rebuttal then? Just an adhom?
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Since you asked, the report claimed that Israeli blockade was illegal under international law, because there was a severe humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

Ehm. What?

Last time I checked, the international law did not mandate unrestricted access to any place where a humanitarian crisis was taking place, wartime or not. Can you find the said law? At a minimum I'd require it to stipulate that no one may restrict access to a certain area (where Gaza would fit), for any reason and in any way, during war time.

It's hardly the only reason to seriously question the validity of the report. For instance, according to the article, the same body already blamed Israel before the investigation took place, so it is quite impossible to say it was impartial during the investigation.

McHrozni
 
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The real shock would be if the UN had not condemned Israel. It has impeccable form in this area.
 
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McHrozni said:
Since you asked, the report claimed that Israeli blockade was illegal under international law, because there was a severe humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

Ehm. What?

Last time I checked, the international law did not mandate unrestricted access to any place where a humanitarian crisis was taking place, wartime or not. Can you find the said law? At a minimum I'd require it to stipulate that no one may restrict access to a certain area (where Gaza would fit), for any reason and in any way, during war time.

It's hardly the only reason to seriously question the validity of the report. For instance, according to the article, the same body already blamed Israel before the investigation took place, so it is quite impossible to say it was impartial during the investigation.

McHrozni
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Where did you check?
 
WildCat said:
Oh noes! The club of dictators, theocrats, and strongmen that make up the UNHRC has condemned Israel yet again!

I'm shocked, shocked, shocked!
Click to expand...




Namely:

Judge Karl T. Hudson-Phillips, Q.C., retired Judge of the International Criminal Court and former Attorney General of Trinidad and Tobago.

Sir Desmond de Silva, Q.C. of the United Kingdom, former Chief Prosecutor of the United Nations-backed Special Court for Sierra
Leone.

Ms. Mary Shanthi Dairiam of Malaysia, founding member of the Board of Directors of the International Women’s Rights Action Watch Asia Pacific and former member of the Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women.
 
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JihadJane said:
Where did you check?
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Everywhere I could, but I couldn't find a law that would mandate unrestricted access to any particular area during war time. The only things I did find was the Article 42 of the UN Charter, which allowed the UNSC to mandate a blockade, and the Article 51, which explicitly permits states to defend themselves until the UNSC can ensure peace. That and the London decleration of 1909, which sets rules for blockades. Near as I can tell, Israel is following those rules. It even explicitly permits Israel to sieze all foodstuffs, among other things, coming into Gaza, without telling anybody.

Can you find me a valid international law that would mandate unrestricted access to an area whose definition Gaza would meet?

McHrozni
 
How could it be a "war crime" without a war? Or is the UN saying that Israel is actually at war with the nations that had citizens on those boats?
 
McHrozni said:
Everywhere I could, but I couldn't find a law that would mandate unrestricted access to any particular area during war time. The only things I did find was the Article 42 of the UN Charter, which allowed the UNSC to mandate a blockade, and the Article 51, which explicitly permits states to defend themselves until the UNSC can ensure peace. That and the London decleration of 1909, which sets rules for blockades. Near as I can tell, Israel is following those rules. It even explicitly permits Israel to sieze all foodstuffs, among other things, coming into Gaza, without telling anybody.

Can you find me a valid international law that would mandate unrestricted access to an area whose definition Gaza would meet?

McHrozni
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Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention
 
TragicMonkey said:
How could it be a "war crime" without a war? Or is the UN saying that Israel is actually at war with the nations that had citizens on those boats?
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I haven't read the whole report(pdf) yet, but previous discussions established that it was because the attack was carried out by a military force and, therefore, cannot be classified as piracy.
 
JihadJane said:
I haven't read the whole report(pdf) yet, but previous discussions established that it was because the attack was carried out by a military force and, therefore, cannot be classified as piracy.
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Sounds pretty lame to me. No war, no war crimes. If they can't explain what it was, how can they possibly judge it?
 
Probably has more to do with the legality of the blockade itself.

If the Israeli army and by extension government has committed an illegal act, should they be punished? Or was it a justifiable action and thus excused? (I don't know if that's a good legal defense though...)
 
nvidiot said:
If the Israeli army and by extension government has committed an illegal act, should they be punished? Or was it a justifiable action and thus excused? (I don't know if that's a good legal defense though...)
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It looks to me like the UN decided it wants to condemn the actions as illegal, and now has to scramble to explain exactly how it's illegal.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Sounds pretty lame to me. No war, no war crimes. If they can't explain what it was, how can they possibly judge it?
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:confused:

Not them, us.


McHrozni said:
Does it state all shipping must be permitted in all areas, irrespective of cargo carried?

McHrozni
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Look it up, but you appear to be pursuing an irrelevant strawman.

TragicMonkey said:
It looks to me like the UN decided it wants to condemn the actions as illegal, and now has to scramble to explain exactly how it's illegal.
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The panel does not represent the UN as a whole.

Perhaps you could read the report before making any more nonsensical comments about it!
 
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WildCat said:
Oh noes! The club of dictators, theocrats, and strongmen that make up the UNHRC has condemned Israel yet again!

I'm shocked, shocked, shocked!
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Is that really all Israel has to offer in defence of its crimes against humanity these days? Nothing except call people names. That seems to be the tactic.

Do you really think the world is going to allow Israel to carry on massacring people on this, now regular basis, for much longer?
 
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