More Evidence That Vaccines Don't Cause Autism

[pgwenthold]

This is a small sample size and there are also different forms of it. There is also a question of validity.

One of the main issues raised with vaccines is one of the ingredients called Thimerosal:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal


So you have to ask why they have decided to phase out the use. Maybe because the critics were right about it's dangers?

And right after taking it out, the autism rate plummeted, right? I mean, because if it were such a problem, we should have seen a huge change in the number of adverse outcomes from vaccines.

Oh wait. Nothing changed? What do you mean, that removing thimerasol didn't have any noticeable effect on vaccine reactions? I thought it thimerasol was doing terrible things?

Dude, did you even read the article this thread is about?

The funny thing is, thimerasol was never even in the MMR vaccine - the one that is most commonly associated with autism (the old, "he got the shot, and suddenly stopped responding" fallacy). The only childhood vaccine that still contains thimerasol is the flu vaccine, which has never never NEVER been associated, even in passing, with autism.

Or any other serious adverse effect (outside of fever or soreness), for that matter.

 

[Arisia]

Children with an ASD are born that way. Vaccines of any kind have no part in whether a child has an ASD. Plus, I've never heard of an ASD that's fatal, but all the diseases we currently vaccinate against (including chicken pox) can be. If we removed diseases from the human population via globally comprehensive vaccination campaigns, following generations wouldn't need to be vaccinated against those diseases at all, like small pox.

 

[SnakeTongue]

I didn't understand that you didn't know how to perform a simple internet search.

All right, I forgive you... We all can commit mistakes.

 

[SnakeTongue]

Why?

The study is poor, in my personal opinion.

I do not believe that vaccines with Mercury can cause Autism, but also I do not believe that vaccines are complete safe.

It is plenty of good references in the Internet which suggest which can be a link.

So I just expect more researches being made to investigate the matter with more attention.

After the H1N1 hype, I will not trust so easy in vaccines made without extensive research over the risks and advantages.

Does anyone know if a experiment in animals was done to reinforce the non-existence of this link?

I would like to know.

 

[SnakeTongue]

First child, all vaccination on time. Diagnosed with ASD.
Second child, didn't get any vaccinations, also diagnosed with ASD.
Personal experince tells me there is no link to vaccination.
And this sort of thing, frankly ticks me off to no end, as more money and 'research' will be thrown down this empty hole while real research towards cause/cure is underfunded.

You personal experience need more experience:

Sorting out the spinning of autism: heavy metals and the question of incidence

We argue that scientific research does not support rejecting the link between the neurodevelopmental disorder of autism and toxic exposures.

http://www.ane.pl/showarticle.php?art=7021

More study regarding vaccines with heavy metals should and must be done.

 

[SnakeTongue]

The funny thing is, thimerasol was never even in the MMR vaccine - the one that is most commonly associated with autism (the old, "he got the shot, and suddenly stopped responding" fallacy). The only childhood vaccine that still contains thimerasol is the flu vaccine, which has never never NEVER been associated, even in passing, with autism.

Or any other serious adverse effect (outside of fever or soreness), for that matter.

New Study Shows Vaccines Cause Brain Changes Found in Autism

By Dan Olmsted and Mark Blaxill

Abnormal brain growth and function are features of autism, an increasingly common developmental disorder that now affects 1 in 60 boys in the US. Now researchers from the University of Pittsburgh and Thoughtful House Center for Children in Austin, Texas, have found remarkably similar brain changes to those seen in autism in infant monkeys receiving the vaccine schedule used in the 1990’s that contained the mercury-based preservative thimerosal.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/07/new-study-shows-vaccines-cause-brain-changes-found-in-autism.html


Influence of pediatric vaccines on amygdala growth and opioid ligand binding in rhesus macaque infants: A pilot study

This longitudinal, case-control pilot study examined amygdala growth in rhesus macaque infants receiving the complete US childhood vaccine schedule (1994-1999). Longitudinal structural and functional neuroimaging was undertaken to examine central effects of the vaccine regimen on the developing brain.

http://www.ane.pl/showarticle.php?art=7020

 

[SnakeTongue]

Children with an ASD are born that way. Vaccines of any kind have no part in whether a child has an ASD. Plus, I've never heard of an ASD that's fatal, but all the diseases we currently vaccinate against (including chicken pox) can be. If we removed diseases from the human population via globally comprehensive vaccination campaigns, following generations wouldn't need to be vaccinated against those diseases at all, like small pox.

The Myth Of Vaccines Causing 20th Century Mortality Decline: Excellent Paper by Mckinlay and Mckinlay

This is an excellent review paper from the late 1970s dispelling the myth that vaccines were responsible for eradicating major diseases in the 20th century.

http://www.vaccines.me/articles/rgc...-excellent-paper-by-mckinlay-and-mckinlay.cfm

http://www.vaccines.me/assets/docs/mckinlay-role-of-medicine-in-mortality-decline.pdf

 

[Spindrift]

All right, I forgive you... We all can commit mistakes.

Thanks, coming from you it means a lot since you do appear to be an authority on making mistakes.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

So you have to ask why they have decided to phase out the use. Maybe because the critics were right about it's dangers?

The answer is "no". After all, if the critics were right about it's "dangers", why have they not been able to establish actual causality to specific problems like autism?

Fact of the matter is, there is no link. This has been established. Increases of rates of autism diagnoses are completely independent of whether a child receives a vaccination or not.

 

[Leviath]

The study is poor, in my personal opinion.

I do not believe that vaccines with Mercury can cause Autism, but also I do not believe that vaccines are complete safe.

It is plenty of good references in the Internet which suggest which can be a link.

So I just expect more researches being made to investigate the matter with more attention.

After the H1N1 hype, I will not trust so easy in vaccines made without extensive research over the risks and advantages.

Does anyone know if a experiment in animals was done to reinforce the non-existence of this link?

I would like to know.

This isn't an answer to my question of why you think the study is poor. Just saying it's your opinion is not an explanation. You are free of course to not explain it, but then there's also no need to respond at all.

 

[Travis]

The answer is "no". After all, if the critics were right about it's "dangers", why have they not been able to establish actual causality to specific problems like autism?

Fact of the matter is, there is no link. This has been established. Increases of rates of autism diagnoses are completely independent of whether a child receives a vaccination or not.

But do nicely correlate with changes in diagnostic criteria for autism. Funny how that works out.

 

[dudalb]

The Myth Of Vaccines Causing 20th Century Mortality Decline: Excellent Paper by Mckinlay and Mckinlay

This is an excellent review paper from the late 1970s dispelling the myth that vaccines were responsible for eradicating major diseases in the 20th century.

http://www.vaccines.me/articles/rgc...-excellent-paper-by-mckinlay-and-mckinlay.cfm

http://www.vaccines.me/assets/docs/mckinlay-role-of-medicine-in-mortality-decline.pdf

Wow, evidence from a Woo Anti Vax site.We are so impressed.

 

[kageki]

The answer is "no". After all, if the critics were right about it's "dangers", why have they not been able to establish actual causality to specific problems like autism?

Fact of the matter is, there is no link. This has been established. Increases of rates of autism diagnoses are completely independent of whether a child receives a vaccination or not.

Then why did they remove it?

Perhaps it's not autism, but maybe something else. Studies needs funds and if they don't get the funds then they aren't done. Studies can also be distorted. Fluoride is still being debated even when they did a fairly comprehensive study on it saying it was bad. These things take time even though it's supposed to be "science" and there's also a lot of politics involved.

 

[pgwenthold]

Then why did they remove it?

Perhaps it's not autism, but maybe something else. Studies needs funds and if they don't get the funds then they aren't done..

And when they are done and don't find what the anti-vax morons want them to say, they get dismissed. Not because they can find a flaw in the science, but because they were actually funded by someone!

BTW, I should comment on this tripe: New Study Shows Vaccines Cause Brain Changes Found in Autism

In fact, that isn't what that study found. What the study actually found was that the brains of vaccinated monkeys were exactly the same as what had previously been found and reported for the brains of monkeys. The shocking new discovery of this study was that one (of three) monkeys they had in their control (non-vaccinated) group had a significant developmental deficiency, which caused their control average to actually be highly distorted from what is normal for these animals.

Instead of concluding that their control group was flawed (two of the three controls had development that looked perfectly normal, and exactly like the vaccinated one), like any sane scientist would do, they interpreted the difference between the control group and vaccinated group to be evidence for vaccine damage.

They had something like 8 monkeys total, and 7 gave indistinguishable results. The one outlier was in the control group, so they blamed vaccines.

Of course, Blaxil and Olmstead wouldn't know a scientific trial if they were double-blinded and random.

 

[kageki]

And when they are done and don't find what the anti-vax morons want them to say, they get dismissed. Not because they can find a flaw in the science, but because they were actually funded by someone!

BTW, I should comment on this tripe: New Study Shows Vaccines Cause Brain Changes Found in Autism

In fact, that isn't what that study found. What the study actually found was that the brains of vaccinated monkeys were exactly the same as what had previously been found and reported for the brains of monkeys. The shocking new discovery of this study was that one (of three) monkeys they had in their control (non-vaccinated) group had a significant developmental deficiency, which caused their control average to actually be highly distorted from what is normal for these animals.

Instead of concluding that their control group was flawed (two of the three controls had development that looked perfectly normal, and exactly like the vaccinated one), like any sane scientist would do, they interpreted the difference between the control group and vaccinated group to be evidence for vaccine damage.

They had something like 8 monkeys total, and 7 gave indistinguishable results. The one outlier was in the control group, so they blamed vaccines.

Of course, Blaxil and Olmstead wouldn't know a scientific trial if they were double-blinded and random.

Does this mean you believe water fluoridation is wrong? Because you should:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUS108377+02-Jan-2008+PRN20080102

 

[elbe]

Does this mean you believe water fluoridation is wrong? Because you should:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUS108377+02-Jan-2008+PRN20080102

It might make sense to point out that that appears to be a press release by an anti-fluoride group, not an actual news report. It also appears to be "cleverly" worded to make scientists, who seem to be suggesting we are over-fluoridating are actually suggesting an outright removal.

Too much is bad != any is bad

 

[kageki]

It might make sense to point out that that appears to be a press release by an anti-fluoride group, not an actual news report. It also appears to be "cleverly" worded to make scientists, who seem to be suggesting we are over-fluoridating are actually suggesting an outright removal.

Too much is bad != any is bad

Yes everytime it's "anti" something, but it doesn't occur to you think about the "pro" group. Well actually they are suggesting we remove it or certainly re-evaluate.

The study in question is by the National Research Council:
http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=11571

Sometimes any is bad.

 

[elbe]

Yes everytime it's "anti" something, but it doesn't occur to you think about the "pro" group. Well actually they are suggesting we remove it or certainly re-evaluate.

Self described: "New York State Coalition Opposed to Fluoridation"

Citing a press release as evidence for something isn't making me care about your links to an admitted anti-fluoride group's website. Do you see why?

 

[kageki]

Self described: "New York State Coalition Opposed to Fluoridation"

Citing a press release as evidence for something isn't making me care about your links to an admitted anti-fluoride group's website. Do you see why?

The National Research Council?

The National Academies Press (NAP) was created by the National Academies to publish the reports issued by the National Academy of Sciences, the National Academy of Engineering, the Institute of Medicine, and the National Research Council, all operating under a charter granted by the Congress of the United States.

 

[SnakeTongue]

Wow, evidence from a Woo Anti Vax site.We are so impressed.

Wow, no evidence at all from an arrogant user which cannot provide an reasonable argument. We are so impressed.