RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
Please do a test yourself that does replicate exactly the path of the bullet or bullets. Remember, it must exactly replicate it.
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single bullet theory is not true says Soily
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Please do a test yourself that does replicate exactly the path of the bullet or bullets. Remember, it must exactly replicate it.
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
Also, Soily, set up a test where you're in the sixth floor window and make the same shot and try not to hit Connolly after shooting through soft tissue on Kennedy.
If you need help setting up the shot, watch the Myers video.
If you need help setting up the shot, watch the Myers video.
TraneWreck
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Where's your evidence that the Texas branch followed that policy?
Where's your evidence that they asked for Oswald's identification when he went to receive the rifle?
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
The application for PO Box 2915 in Dallas had been discarded so it isn't known what names he had put on it. The PO Box in New Orleans, he had listed himself, Marina and one of his aliases, "AJ Hidell". AJ Hidell is the name he used to purchase the assassination rifle and the revolver he used to kill Tippit. Those were mailed to PO Box 2915 in Dallas. These things really aren't difficult.
riptowtan
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The test was done to see if a bullet could cause all of those wounds. It showed that it could. You are now changing the subject to the trajectory, which was not precise in the experiment. With all of the unknowns about the exact position and angle of Oswald's rifle, you can't expect the experiment to look exactly like what happened. The experiment showed a strikingly similar trajectory and passed through both bodies. What more could one ask? Is there anything that could convince you that Oswald did it? We have just about all of the evidence there could be. I don't think anyone of the criticisms of the evidence holds up to careful scrutiny. Your anaylses are at best inconclusive and at worst pathetic nitpicking.
-Fingerprints on the gun and bag
-Oswald's rifle found in the book depository
-3 bullets were fired from his gun, and positively matched with NAA (Read the critique of the study I posted)
-The trajectory and bullet wounds are plausible
-Oswald had the motive to kill Kennedy and tried to assassinate Walker 7 months prior
-The vast majority of eyewitness testimony leads to the placing of the shots to the 6th floor of the book depository.
-Oswald did a whole list of very suspicious things including leaving behind his wedding ring, all of him money, bringing in a bag of "curtain rods", not filling out his clipboard at work, running away from the scene of the crime to grab his pistol to later shoot a cop...etc
Not to mention that the LN theory is the only one that can explain the totality of evidence. There is not a single shred of evidence incriminating any other shooters or even anyone who hired Oswald to do it.
The package shown in my hand was about 35 inches long. From your video link Frazier says;
I am about Oswald's height, but the longest object I can hold under my armpit and cupped in my hand is about 24 inches long, but not comfortably. Even if the package was only 24 inches long, I'm willing to bet that a person Oswald's size would have held any package with his elbow bent in a more comfortable position with the object held something like I presented in my previous photo.
Ranb
My 6.5mm 91/38 Carcano has the sling mounts on the left side (oppisite side of the bolt handle). Which of the two photos do you speak of?
Here is a picture of the right hand side of my carcano showing the right hand side of the forward sling mount screw on the front end. Also shown is the portion of the carcano that Oswald is holding; he is holding it with the right hand side of the rifle showing.
The photo shows an object that appears to be a leaf on the bush in the background. If it is a sling mount, then it should have a sling in it, but it does not. The sling appears to be attached at the back of the stock, but since it attaches on the left, it is not visible.
I'm guessing you have a different opinion on this matter?
Ranb
Ohh right, so now you're saying Connolly heard a bullet fall from him. This would be the remarks in Connolly's memoirs that he heard a bullet fall from him in the emergency room, and nurse bell picked it up and put it in her pocket, then gave it to a Texas ranger. Well Robert Harris in the video I posted earlier in this thread has the evidence envelope for that and it says bullet fragments. So either way you're in big trouble. If it was a bullet then you now have a 4th bullet and proof of conspiracy, if it was a fragment big enough for Connolly to have heard it fall out then it could not have come from CE399. So which is it?
TraneWreck
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No, it's not a problem at all. I've already pointed out the absolute unreliability of eyewitnesses, especially one in the middle of a fight for his life.
Bullet fragments wouldn't make the same noise as a falling bullet. It's very possible that he heard the bullet and saw something being put in an envelope by a nurse. That doesn't mean they were the same thing.
Demanding perfect recall in a time of crisis is one of the silly things conspiracy theorists do all the time.
Once again, if no one ever found CE399, there's more than enough evidence to prove Oswald was the shooter and EXACTLY ZERO evidence for anyone else or even a shot originating from a different location.
pgwenthold
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Indeed. Connally would still have had the wound in his leg, for example, and it would have lined up with the entrance/exit wounds on his and JFKs torsos exactly the same.
Given the number of shots that were fired and what we can see from the Z-film, a single bullet is far and away the best explanation for that. That the bullet found only confirms that it came from Oswald's gun found on the 6th floor of the SBD is nice, but isn't critical. Most importantly, nothing about the bullet creates any reason to question the single bullet explanation.
Hang on your the one quoting Connolly to support your confused argument. Make your mind up, do you think witnesses are reliable or not? If not then don't quote them.
- A bullet was found on a stretcher at parkland
- All 3 men who found it, including the former deputy chief of police, say it was point nosed.
- Suppressed FBI reports show that none of the 3 men or the 3 Agents who saw the bullet at Parkland could identify it as CE399.
- The FBI lied to the WC by fabricating an interview by Bardwell Odum with the men at parkland in which they positively ID'd the bullet as CE399. This did not happen.
- No bullet was found in Connolly's leg, just fragments. And Police Chief Jesse Curry's evidence photo shows a fragment from Connolly's thigh far bigger than could have come from CE399.
- It's quite apparent that the FBI lab received two bullets that evening. Robert Frazier records the receipt of a bullet q1, which later became CE399, at 7:30pm. He records this not once but twice, once in the evidence sheet and once in his notes. Meanwhile the parkland bullet is at the White House at 7:30. Elmer Todd takes possession of it, scratches his initials on it and marks the time on the evidence envelope as 8:50pm. He then delivers the bullet to the FBI crime lab.
- At some point after this someone realizes that the Elmer Todd Parkland bullet could not have been fired by Oswald and the bullet has to be deep sixed. This would explain why Elmer Todds initials do not seem to be on CE399, the bullet he had from Parkland was a different bullet.
Does the right hand photo here show a side or bottom mounted sling?http://artheat.net/wip/uploaded_images/CE-133-all-706788.jpg
They only line up if you lie about the positions of the men and the location of the wounds, which the WC and its subsequent supports have shamelessly for 47 years. Why did the WC put Kennedy's back wound 6 inches higher than it was?
There's no evidence placing Oswald on the 6th floor at the time of the shooting and no evidence that 3 shots were fired other than the 3 shells found. Unfortunately Tom Alyea saw and filmed Will Fritz picking these up with his hands before they could be photographed, so the crime scene photographs today are staged, nullifying them as evidence. The 3 Amigos on floor 5 did not all hear 3 shots, they differ on that, and they certainly did not hear the action of a bolt or 3 shells falling to the floor, that was a later embellishment by one of the men. Ear Witnesses all differ on the amount of shots they heard, their location and their timing. Indeed a great many witnesses heard 2 shots right on top of each other which in itself would shred the official account. So you think its all clear, but if you read beyond Bugliosi's lies, distortions, omissions and factoids your case is utterly flawed.
Well, that link you provided shows a rather low rez version of the photos. It shows the sling as a lighter color than the stock. The sling clearly is attached to the left side at the rear of the stock. Up front is less clear, but zooming in shows that the sling covers half of the bottom of the stock on the left. So I would have to say that the sling is attached to on the left.
I have never seen an example of a 91/38 Carcano with the sling attached on the bottom or the right. The front sling mount can be switched to the right side by simply removing the sling mount and turning it around. The rear mount would need new holes drilled in the stock to facilitate this change. It would be easy to do this, but I have not seen any evidence that it was done on Oswald's rifle.
So do I get any answers from you or just questions?
Ranb
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RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
From Chapter 3.
All you have to do is read. What do you believe they were hearing, Soily?
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
Where does evidence place Oswald during the time of the shooting?
You asked two questions.
The first question I've answered by giving you a link.
The answer to the second question is obviously yes.
TraneWreck
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I have consistently said to ignore all eyewitnesses. You have no case without confused recollections, they're irrelevant to Oswald as the lone shooter.
I was pointing out that even if we consider the opinion of the witnesses, they make a much stronger argument for finding A bullet at the hospital and a very weak case for identifying A PARTICULAR bullet.
This surprises you? They couldn't identify with specificity that a bullet shown to them months later was a bullet they saw in the midst of chaos? Your reliance on eyewitness testimony just means your argument sucks.
And, for the record, both Tomilinson and Wright said that it looked like the bullet they saw. That's the best you're going to get:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/399doc.jpg
So people who can't positively ID the bullet or say it was different can be trusted, but anyone who says they recognize the bullet is lying. Gotcha.
I think you're confused about who Bardwell Odum was in the chain of custody.
Here's the chain of custody working backwards:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/cece399.txt
Notice that there's no Bardwell Odum on that list. Here was Odum's role:
What evidence is there that this is a lie? A snipped interview with a confused Odom in 2002, when he was 83? When the interviewer asks if he went to Parkland hospital with the bullet, which he didn't?
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/da....aspx?n=bardwell-odum&pid=143129833&fhid=5721
They found a hole in his leg consistent with a bullet wound. The fragments weren't too big, that's a paranoid fabrication.
Of course they didn't find the bullet IN his thigh, it fell out.
Nope.
What?
Instead of JAQing it, why don't you explain what you think happened.
Here are the things you need to explain:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sbt.htm
Once again, ALL physical evidence points to the single bullet theory and Oswald as the shooter. All you have is mangled recollections of people in the midst of chaos. Additionally, your fantasy about the chain of custody of CE399 makes no sense to any potential conspiracy.
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Again, you're not reading. I've already posted the original testimony of Norman, who makes no mention of any of these sensational details http://mysite.verizon.net/respxxbt/dukelane/ss491.htm his story gradually gets exaggerated with each retelling.
It is in short yet another of Bugliosis 'factoids'.
riptowtan
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They made an illustration that was inaccurate, but the facesheets also have a measurement for the wound.
"What is the evidence for the "low" back wound location? The piece of evidence that conspiracy books will most often show you is the facesheet from the autopsy. It seems to place the wound too low to be consistent with the exit wound in the front of the neck.
What will the conspiracy books not tell you about this? They won't tell you that the face sheet also has a measurement placing the wound. It places the wound 14 cm. below the tip of the right mastoid process. That's not consistent with the lower dot location, but it is consistent with other statements in the autopsy. They also won't tell you what the autopsy report says about the track of the bullet through the body.
The other missile entered the right superior posterior thorax above the scapula and traversed the soft tissues of the supra-scapular and the supra-clavicular portions of the base of the right side of the neck. This missile produced contusions of the right apical parietal pleura and of the apical portion of the right upper lobe of the lung. The missile contused the strap muscles of the right side of the neck, damaged the trachea and made its exit through the anterior surface of the neck. Warren Commission Report, p. 543."
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sbt.htm
Since you keep saying that the positions of the men are lies, why don't you provide us with a illustration of how you think they are sitting. This is a very simple thing to confirm and yet for 47 years conspiracy theorists have shamelessly been positioning Connally right in front of JFK. You can look at pictures of the Limo afterwards and see there was a jump seat where Connally was sitting. By looking at the Zapruder film you can see that they were positioned just like they are in Myer's simulation.
There is tons of evidence. His fingerprints are all of the room and murder weapon. No one else saw Oswald during the assassination so we know he was by himself somewhere. And it just so happens that Oswald was the only person to leave the Book Depository. Hmmmm. This is a hard one. There is no evidence for your claim whatsoever, and no plausible alternative to Oswald killing JFK. If the crime scene photos were staged why would they record one of the men staging it? Your fantasy conspirators are some of the dumbest people on the planet yet they have managed to leave no evidence behind and keep thousands of mouths shut for 40 years. Ear witness testimony is overruled by physical evidence and common sense. The only reason why I used the "3 amigos" is because they were the ones closest to the shooting, and they did all hear the shots from above. You should consider that maybe it's the authors you are reading who are distorting the historical record. After all, with 47 years of investigating no positive evidence has ever been found for another gunman or conspirator.
Ok, so what do you think about his original testimony in which he said the shots sounded like they came from above? You can nitpick Bugliosi all you want, but when it comes down to it, his general facts hold up. I don't think you have made one convincing argument for a conspiracy, let alone provide any evidence.