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Lambda-CDM theory - Woo or not?

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I have no idea what you folks even mean by "neutral" a this point since you are *ENTIRELY* inconsistent, just like with that "negative pressure" BS. You cannot claim that the black wire is ELECTRICALLY neutral, although you might squeak away with claiming it's "charge neutral" by your own terms. You aren't even consistent with your own terms.
ELECTRICALLY neutral = equal number of positive and negative charges.
ELECTRICALLY neutral wrt a point = the same voltage as that point.
No inconsistancy (but electricians often drop the "wrt a point" since they deal with volatages a lot)

Thus a wire is ELECTRICALLY neutral and carries a current.
Either way you look at it, it is *YOU FOLKS* that absolutely refuse to acknowledge the "current flowing" through the plasma and the wire. That's basically your problem in a nutshell. You'd all electrocute yourselves in space too. :)
Either way you look at it, it is *YOU FOLK* that is lying.
We acknowledge the current flowing" through the plasma and the wire.
Where we differ from you is that we are not obsessed with the current.
That's basically your problem in a nutshell.
 
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And when did I claim that Alfven or Peratt said anything on this topic?


Jesus H. Christ, do we have to do this every blessed time? Here's where Ziggurat runs through the dialog...

We aren't limited to "charge" alone, nor have we ever been limited to "charge" alone and that seems to be where they have a mental disconnect.

No, Michael. That's where YOU have a mental disconnect, not only between your ideas and reality, but even between what you said before and what you're saying now. Let's go back a bit, shall we?

Holy cow! You can't even tell a "current carrying" plasma from a "neutral" plasma

And where exactly is Alfvén claiming that the plasma is NOT neutral?

He makes that claim every single time he uses the term "circuit" in reference to them.

Nope. Evidently you don't understand the difference between charge and current.

Everyone BUT you has known that we 'aren't limited to "charge" alone' (though why you put charge in quotes is a mystery, since it's a well-defined term), and that we can have current without net charge.


Read it again.

The only liar here is you GM. The fact you can't quote me is a clear indication of *your* lie and it demonstrates that you will stoop to any low to "kill the messenger" rather than to deal with the topic at hand.


I quoted you, and it turns out you're a liar. And you're also lying every time you infer that I, or anyone else in these discussions, has some kind of magical invisible sky entities, or whatever the hell you want to call those imaginary concepts that you invented in order to dishonestly insult the other participants in the conversation. You're also lying when you claim that Birkeland predicted anything about cosmology. I've been pointing out the quotes containing your lies for weeks now.

I have no idea what you folks even mean by "neutral" a this point since you are *ENTIRELY* inconsistent, just like with that "negative pressure" BS. You cannot claim that the black wire is ELECTRICALLY neutral, although you might squeak away with claiming it's "charge neutral" by your own terms. You aren't even consistent with your own terms.


You have no idea what these folks even mean by "neutral" because you have clearly demonstrated that you don't have the qualifications to communicate in a sane or intelligent manner on any issue related to science, any science, period.

Either way you look at it, it is *YOU FOLKS* that absolutely refuse to acknowledge the "current flowing" through the plasma and the wire. That's basically your problem in a nutshell. You'd all electrocute yourselves in space too. :)


Nobody here is refusing to acknowledge the implications of how electricity behaves in wire or plasma, and in fact a few of these folks have taken the time to try to help you understand it despite your steadfast willful ignorance, so I guess you've been caught lying again.

And see here, where you could actually be pointing out the specific sources of your outrageous claims you choose to throw another tantrum, insult everyone, lie again, and do your damnedest to derail the conversation.
 
This thread is really, really hard on irony meters.

:) Well, we agree on that statement, but obviously for different reasons. This one was my absolute favorite:

We acknowledge the current flowing" through the plasma and the wire.

The problem D'rok is that they not only *DO NOT* recognize the "current flow", they actively ignore and deny it exists. Unlike Birkeland, they don't talk about voltages or circuits or current flow. They have no clue that there is a discharge process even occurring between the solar surface and the heliosphere, in fact they actively DENY it. That applies to space as a whole too. They acknowledge the magnetic fields, but never the 'current flows" that sustain them.
 
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Jesus H. Christ, do we have to do this every blessed time? Here's where Ziggurat runs through the dialog...


Originally Posted by Michael Mozina View Post
Holy cow! You can't even tell a "current carrying" plasma from a "neutral" plasma
Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
And where exactly is Alfvén claiming that the plasma is NOT neutral?
Originally Posted by Michael Mozina View Post
He makes that claim every single time he uses the term "circuit" in reference to them.
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Nope. Evidently you don't understand the difference between charge and current.

Read it again.

I read it again. It turns out that *YOU* folks do not know the difference between "charge neutrality" and "electrical neutrality". That's my fault now?

I quoted you, and it turns out you're a liar.

Nope, the liar is obviously you. I didn't say squat about "charge neutral" in any of my statements.

You have to be *THE* single least honest person in cyberspace. You can't even focus on a topic, you focus on people. That's pathetic behavior.
 
:) Well, we agree on that statement, but obviously for different reasons. This one was my absolute favorite:



The problem D'rok is that they not only *DO NOT* recognize the "current flow", they actively ignore and deny it exists. Unlike Birkeland, they don't talk about voltages or circuits or current flow. They have no clue that there is a discharge process even occurring between the solar surface and the heliosphere, in fact they actively DENY it. That applies to space as a whole too. They acknowledge the magnetic fields, but never the 'current flows" that sustain them.
Hmmm...I've been lurking in your threads for (yikes) years now, and if there's one thing I've learned for sure, it's this:

Every time you say anything at all about any scientific topic whatsoever in any context whatsoever...

...you are reliably, obliviously, loudly, horrifically and spectacularly *WRONG*.

You are the lodestone of wrongness, the centre of gravity of the wrongiverse, the rosetta stone of wronglish, the Sultan of Wrongabia, the Senior Partner in Wrong, Wrong, and Wrong, LLC., the Captain of the USS Wrongerprise, and the Pope of Orthodox Wrongianity.

You have reached critical mass of wrongness and are self-sustaining. You could power NYC with the perpetual motion of your wrongnicity.

Welcome to *WRONG*, population *YOU*.



In case I haven't made myself clear...you are always wrong.


This is a statement of fact, not an attack on you personally. As evidence, I present everything you have ever said, ever.
 
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Hmmm...I've been lurking in your threads for (yikes) years now, and if there's one thing I've learned for sure, it's this:

Every time you say anything at all about any scientific topic whatsoever in any context whatsoever...

...you are reliably, obliviously, loudly, horrifically and spectacularly *WRONG*.

You are the lodestone of wrongness, the centre of gravity of the wrongiverse, the rosetta stone of wronglish, the Sultan of Wrongabia, the Senior Partner in Wrong, Wrong, and Wrong, LLC., the Captain of the USS Wrongerprise, and the Pope of Orthodox Wrongianity.

You have reached critical mass of wrongness and are self-sustaining. You could power NYC with the perpetual motion of your wrongnicity.

Welcome to *WRONG*, population *YOU*.



In case I haven't made myself clear...you are always wrong.


This is a statement of fact, not an attack on you personally. As evidence, I present everything you have ever said, ever.

Was there a specific point you were trying to make? :)

FYI, claiming that someone is "wrong" has never been a personal attack. :)
 
The problem D'rok is that they not only *DO NOT* recognize the "current flow", they actively ignore and deny it exists. Unlike Birkeland, they don't talk about voltages or circuits or current flow.


Of course you'll agree that Birkeland never talked about voltages and current flow in regards to the accelerated expansion of the Universe, so your spitting on his grave here is clearly a derail of the subject under discussion.
 
Bzzzt.

"Charge neutral" = equal number of positive and negative charges.

For crying out loud, at least be *CONSISTENT* with your terminology!
Bzzzt.

Also "Electrically neutral" = equal number of positive and negative charges.

For crying out loud, at least be *CONSISTENT* with your ignorance!

For example:
Process by which electrically neutral atoms or molecules are converted to electrically charged atoms or molecules (ions) by the removal or addition of negatively charged electrons.
Galactic magnetic fields may control boundaries of our solar system
 
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Really? How much current flows between the solar surface and the heliosphere? What's the voltage?
None. Zero.
There is a mass flow between the solar surface and the heliosphere. FYI this is called the solar wind. It consists of equal numbers of negative and positive charges. It is electrically neutral. This was predicted by a guy called Birkeland who you have been lying about for months years (Michael Mozina's delusions about Birkeland's work).

ETA
GeeMack's next post reminds me: From the above list of lies
Please cite where in his book Birkeland identified a discharge process between the Sun's surface and the heliosphere (about 10 billion kilometers from the Sun).
7th July 2009
An honest person would have cited the the place in Birkeland's book
Someone who had made an honest mistake about what Birkeland stated in his book would have said so.
It has been over a year now and you have not cited or admitted your honest mistake.
That makes you into a liar about Birkeland.

But I can understand where this delusion has come from. You are so obsessed with Birkelands work that you have taken it to insane levels. You obviously believe that the Sun is a solid brass ball (but you spell brass as "iron" for some reason), that the solar system is surrounded by walls of glass and that there is a electrical generator run by aliens (the Klingon?) powering the lot. :rolleyes:
 
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Really? How much current flows between the solar surface and the heliosphere? What's the voltage?


Neither Alfvén nor Birkeland ever had anything to say on that particular issue, did they, Michael?

More of your stupid lies.


So in what source, page, and paragraph does either Alfvén or Birkeland describe how much current flows between the solar surface and the heliosphere? That's a scientific question, Michael. You just name the source, page, and paragraph. You don't bitch and complain. You don't throw a tantrum. You don't lie. You don't change the subject. And then you explain how that relates to the accelerated expansion of the Universe.

And if you can't point out where one or the other of your dead heroes answered the question, "How much current flows between the solar surface and the heliosphere," you have the honesty and integrity to admit that you can't. See how easy science can be?
 
Every time you say anything at all about any scientific topic whatsoever in any context whatsoever...

...you are reliably, obliviously, loudly, horrifically and spectacularly *WRONG*.

You are the lodestone of wrongness, the centre of gravity of the wrongiverse, the rosetta stone of wronglish, the Sultan of Wrongabia, the Senior Partner in Wrong, Wrong, and Wrong, LLC., the Captain of the USS Wrongerprise, and the Pope of Orthodox Wrongianity.

You have reached critical mass of wrongness and are self-sustaining. You could power NYC with the perpetual motion of your wrongnicity.
D'rok
:D:crazy::D
 
I read it again. It turns out that *YOU* folks do not know the difference between "charge neutrality" and "electrical neutrality". That's my fault now?


It's your fault that you say things you can't support. When it becomes abundantly apparent that those things you say are not true, and that you made them up instead of obtaining them from sources, people are going to call you on your lying, Michael.

And where exactly is Alfvén claiming that the plasma is NOT neutral?

He makes that claim every single time he uses the term "circuit" in reference to them.

You see, that is a wholly dishonest way to answer the question. If you can't cite exactly where Alfvén is claiming that the plasma is NOT neutral, the honest thing to do is admit you don't know. It's a lie to say he makes that claim every single time he uses the term "circuit" in reference to them. Lying when you have a choice to be honest is your fault.

It's also your fault that you pretend to have qualifications that you clearly do not have. Your qualifications to understand science, in general, at the level of a ten year old child have been challenged, and you have demonstrated consistently that you do not possess any such qualifications. Pretending to be qualified when in fact you are not is dishonest. It's a lie.

Nope, the liar is obviously you. I didn't say squat about "charge neutral" in any of my statements.


It's also your fault that you don't have the qualifications to communicate in a sane or intelligent way on the subject of science. People have been telling you for years that your communication skills are seriously sub-par, and on more than one occasion people have offered excellent advice to help you with that problem.

You have to be *THE* single least honest person in cyberspace. You can't even focus on a topic, you focus on people. That's pathetic behavior.


Sure I focus on the topic. The topic is the explanation for the accelerating expansion of the Universe. You scoff at the most complete explanation that fits the largest portion of the data we have available. You try, but fail, to criticize the current best-fit theory. You try, but fail, to offer an alternative explanation. In all that failing when you lie, I point it out. When you make some inane argument from incredulity, I point it out. When you argue from a position of willful ignorance, I point it out. When you try to support your crackpot notions by pretending to have qualifications that you simply do not have, I point it out. It's not personal, Michael. You could be any mentally ill crackpot blathering nonsense on the forum, a liar, incredulous, ignorant, arrogant, insulting, and I'd just as quickly point out those same fallacies.
 
Electricity and Cosmology II

For crying out loud, at least be *CONSISTENT* with your terminology!
We have been completely consistent, and I explained everything back on page 103: Electricity and Cosmology. You are the one who has been inconsistent by failing to differentiate between charge neutrality and potential neutrality. You are the one who creates confusion by failing to use the proper terminology and recognizing proper physics.
 
Is a lightening bolt neutral plasma?

Like already said by others, again you fail to deliver anything of real substance. I have already answered this question on page 102, post 4049, which subsequently have ignored.

Two things you do not seem to understand, the difference between (1) a discharge in the neutral (as in non-ionized) atmosphere of the Earth (lightnigh) and (2) currents flowing in a quasi-neutral plasma (as in highly ionized).

In (1) there can be large charges build up (on the clouds) without any repercussions, it will just sit there until ... the dielectric (in this case the Earth's neutral atmosphere) breaks down because of the too large potential difference over the dielectric. The fair-weather electric field in the atmosphere is about 50 to 200 V/m.

If the dielectric breaks down a ionized path is created from the Earth to the cloud (the so called precursor) and that gives the cloud the possibility to discharge its excess of electrons. So, I would have no problems here to say that that discharge channel has a net (negative) charge when the lightning strikes.

Now in (2) we have a completely different situation because we are dealing with a plasma alone. Now to keep it at MM's level we will look at it with ideal MHD glasses, with the restrictions it brings: i.e. all equations are averaged over the longest gyroperiod of the ions (so we are dealing with a fluid, the hydro in MDH), and there are no large scale electric fields because the plasma is ideal (which means no large charges can build up because of the mobility of the ions/electrons).

One of the important differences between (1) and (2) is that in (2) there is no dielectric that can break down (i.e. create an ionization channel). And then we are just left with the MHD equations where for ideal MHD the conductivity as to be set to ∞ or the diffusivity to 0. However, as Alfvén writes in Cosmical Electrodynamics (first edition reprint 1953, chapter 3.24, page 56) the conductivity for an average plasma in the cosmos is on the same level as copper. But that does not make that large scale electric fields and charge separations can occur in a plasma.

Now, assuming Alfvén was correct with his MDH (and I guess we can safely assume that) then we works with the same equations as anyone else and thus he would write that in a volume V of plasma, with V much larger than the Debye sphere (for obvious reasons) the total charge would be:

QV = Σk nk qk

where the index k runs over all ion species and the electrons. Then again, he would write for the current in the volume:

JV = Σk nk qk vk

where one should note that QV is a scalar, whereas
JV is a vector.

Now, in MHD electrical currents are usually driven by changes in the magnetic field:

dB/dt = ∂B/∂t + (v.▼)B

etc. etc.

but that still does not lead us to the implicit statement that MM gives that whenever in a plasma J ≠ 0 then also Q ≠ 0.
 
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And when did I claim that Alfven or Peratt said anything on this topic?

As it is clear you know Alfvén's work by heart and see it as your most profound source of plasma physics, you have to have picked up the notion somewhere that a current carrying plasma cannot be charge neutral (which is what a neutral plasma means).

If Alfvén never made the claim that J ≠ 0 means Q ≠ 0, then what makes you worthy enough to make that claim? Did you perchance get a Nobel prize that we did not hear about?
 
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