Would anyone care to elaborate for/against the elaborate WTC7 CT?

[TruthersLie]

The odds are I won't be around long enough for my real identity to come slipping out (if I were a sock) because this thread is for people to elaborate on current WTC7 CT and I don't think anyone wants to. Unfortunately I can't elaborate much more than quoting scientists and web reports.

Symmetrical features during the building collapse and the change of speed during the collapse (including the 2.25 second free fall) and when the speed changes happened are all of interest to me. I could just dig through google but the numbers aren't what interest me. Finding Implications to CD would be interesting. In general this thread could be interesting if talking heads from both sides wanted to elaborate on implications. I understand that there is a very good chance this won't happen.

Goodnight

Of course not. YOu will be banned as the sock puppet that you are... sooner or later.

YOu keep using that word

Symmetrical

I don't think that word means what you think it means...

 

[Sean84]

well if someone was trying to get away with a conspiracy they probably would plan to hide at least one characteristic of a CD

You mean the kind that only high school drop-outs can figure out but people knowledgeable in the applicable fields can't?

(I knew I shouldn't have wandered into the 9/11 section.)

 

[TruthersLie]

there are tons more ideas that you could try to cancel out but I will leave you guessing which ones are the best.

also, there is a 'boom' sound recording out there and maybe seismic readings too. I can't verify how accurate they are. but I don't think either has been officially debunked. I don't know, I haven't looked into this. Plus how important is seismic readings and 'boom' recordings to CD theories. It depends on the theory, when the boom happened, and the distance to the source of the sound recording.

ps. the penthouse collapse means nothing to me. it doesn't eliminate certain CD theories

pss. at the beginning of the fall it was a lot more symmetric. all I'm saying that there are certain things about the symmetry and asymmetry that interest me.

Roflmao

Thanks. I needed that.

You state it is CD. ALL CD's make very loud, clearly defined, easily heard BOOMS. (except for the verinage technique, are you saying it was verinage?)

There were HUNDREDS of videos of wtc7 prior to its collapse, yet not one has BOOMS in it.

ETA: A yes that telephone call of the firemen when something explodes AFTER the first tower collapsed, but BEFORE the second tower collapsed. That is 7 hours before WTC 7 collapsed.

Now can you think of anything that might be present in a collapsed building (or under it) which might explode? I can think of about a dozen things....


The eastern mechanical penthouse should interest you, as it was the start of the full collapse.

If there are certain things about symmetry that interest you, then you can clearly state them and how they relate to wtc7... since very little about the collapse is "symmetrical."

 

[bill smith]

back when I was practically convinced about the truther argument I posted this picture because I see a huge mass of junk and I can't visualize too well the zero resistance

-------------------------
(a side note - I can understand why a lot of people would be obsessed with trying to prove a conspiracy. but what's the deal with debunkers being so obsessive? there are debunkers that do "counter-resistance" forum posting for hours, practically daily. I don't get how you can be obsessed with disproving conspiracy. isn't NIST's official report satisfying enough? It's kind of weird, i mean, the amount of obsessed debunkers)

hi uke2se

There are those who say (God forbid) that many posters here are actually government agents tasked to categorically deny a 9/11 inside job in a wall-to-wall way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awy8cmcuBlk&feature=related video on cointelpro

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

well if someone was trying to get away with a conspiracy they probably would plan to hide at least one characteristic of a CD

No sounds of explosives.

No mass shattering of windows.

No injuries from flying debris.

No Seismic signatures of explosives.

It just simply was not a controlled demo. For someone who claims he doesn't know, who says he hasn't decided yet. You're having a pretty hard time dealing with the facts.

 

[bardamu]

Found your problem.
[qimg]http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/6518/noresistance.jpg[/qimg]

You don't understand the image. This is what was happening BEFORE The 2.25 seconds of freefall. This is where that was starting. What you may not realize is that once those columsn start to shear and buckle, it is a done deal. You are looking at that image and thinking, that should hold up.

Here is a good experiment for you (if you really are honest about looking for the truth.)

Take an empty soda can. Now carefully stand on top of it. don't twist, don't jump, just stand on it. You should be able to do that.

it shoudl be able to hold your weight and be very stable.

now have a friend poke the can with a stick, or start twisting and watch how quickly that aluminum can provides "zero" resistance and your body weight crushes the can.

Your image is the can, JUST AS IT IS STARTING to buckle.

Now take 82 empty soda cans, get 82 friends to carefully stand one on each can, tell them to hold hands, then poke one of the cans with a stick. You should find that 24 of your friends crush their can one after the other over a period of around 7 seconds, then the remaining 58 all crush their can at exactly the same time.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Now take 82 empty soda cans, get 82 friends to carefully stand one on each can, tell them to hold hands, then poke one of the cans with a stick. You should find that 24 of your friends crush their can one after the other over a period of around 7 seconds, then the remaining 58 all crush their can at exactly the same time.

Stundied.

What else can we say?

 

[TruthersLie]

Now take 82 empty soda cans, get 82 friends to carefully stand one on each can, tell them to hold hands, then poke one of the cans with a stick. You should find that 24 of your friends crush their can one after the other over a period of around 7 seconds, then the remaining 58 all crush their can at exactly the same time.

Goody bard.
goody.

Now can you provide any example where thermite (any form) can cut through a verticle steel column?

and can you provide any example where MULTIPLE thermite (any form) can cut through them at the same time?

Nope? me neither.

My example stands, and in fact if you were to hook up lateral bracing between those cans, as soon as one starts failing the others would too as the bracing gets pulled out of position, distorting the can and causing the collapse.

would it be instantanous? I doubt it... would it be fast? Yup...would they all collapse? probably.

feel free.

 

[leftysergeant]

I love you guys have first impressions of other posters as well

Sopmetimes we just get this feeling of dread like "Oh, crap, here we go again."

Maybe it oes seem that some of us are a bit obsessed, but then, if people really are out to get you,are you really paranoid?

My main reason for being here is that 9/11 woo sites seem a good recruiting ground for some rather nasty movements that have nothing to do with the mechanics of a collapsing building and actual government cover-ups.

To be blunt, the tragedy of 9/11 is being milked for all the fun and profit that can be extracted by various groups who could best be described as white nationalists, tax resisters, anarchists (both capitalist and syndicalist) and total grifters, like R Gage and Alex Jones.

That any significant segment of a society may be roused to action based on propoganda advanced by a malevolent operator cannot, in the long run, be a good thing for civilization.

We saw this movie back in 1933. It did not end well.

Worst case scenario, enough people get pissed off that the government is hioding something ghastly from us and needs to be overthrown. Into the void step the Nazis.

I'm in a racially-mixed family (everybody except Australian Aboriginies and Eskimos, to the best of my knowldge, though I wonder about how my brother got his hands of some much fossil ivory and Coober Peedee opal.)

Obviously, I have an interest in keeping Nazis from portraying themselves as adequate human beings. This is just one of the battlegrounds where they exercise the newest offspring of the Big Lie.

 

[leftysergeant]

like how minimal? what percent resistance?

Since it was not feasible to send anyone into the building to eyeball them, this cannot be really assessed, but, at some point, the columns below the obstructions that prevented our seeing the process in action may have offered ZERO resistance.

The back wall that we see most of was relatively undamaged. The narrower side was heavily damaged and on fire. Looking in through the windows in some of the video, the fire can be seen to be in flashover. Could be as much as 1000F, easily. Stand up in a room in that condition and you are dead.

Steel loses at 10% of its strength at 1000F, if I recall correctly. (It's late here so I am just going to wing it, and we have other fire fighters here to correct me if my memory is not correct.)

So we have the south side of the building only capable of supporting 90% of its normal load.

We have reports that fire department surveyors measured a considerable bulging of the building in that direction long before collapse.

Now let us initiate collapse. We need not quibble here about why collapse initiated. I have no background in chaos theory and it might just be a distraction at the moment.

Now you have the south face of the building accelerating downward, restrained to some degree by the still-strong north wall.

But the north face is under stress and being pulled downward and slightly southward by the collapsing south face. It leans a bit, stressing columns.

The building is a bit unconventional in design, having very few internal columns toi allow more office space without obstacles, so there are fewer than normal elements to arrest a collpase.

So we have the north face being tipped out over, effectively, a void.

Now the stressed north face columns break. There is nothing, really, to arrest them.

Can you, from what I have written here, estimate the acceleration of the north face in this condition?

I would say that there is nothing to arrest or resist the parts of the building that had swayed out over the void, once the columns broke. Think of the wall as a crane, supporting the whole of a building. When the crane's arm breaks, I see no way that it would fall any slower than g, at least until the bottom of it came to rest over a considerable pile of something.

Hope that helps.

 

[T.A.M.]

He came to another forum I frequent and started dropping twoofer talking points. It was less than a week ago, but I find it amazing that he's been able to inundate himself in crap and lies in that short period of time. It's got to be some sort of record.

yah, I could care less what he claims...sounds like a truther in newbie clothing.

TAM

 

[fitzgibbon]

I love you guys have first impressions of other posters as well

Walks like a duck. Quacks like a duck. What do you think the odds are that it's a duck?

 

[T.A.M.]

Now take 82 empty soda cans, get 82 friends to carefully stand one on each can, tell them to hold hands, then poke one of the cans with a stick. You should find that 24 of your friends crush their can one after the other over a period of around 7 seconds, then the remaining 58 all crush their can at exactly the same time.

And this my friends, is why Jon Stewart and others mock them...the stupidity is overflowing...

Thanks for the example...it should be stundied.

TAM

 

[T.A.M.]

Stundied.

What else can we say?

damn...ya beat me to it...damn sleep.

TAM

 

[TruthersLie]

Walks like a duck. Quacks like a duck. What do you think the odds are that it's a duck?

it's not... it's mothra

 

[bardamu]

The science - flawed
The assumptions - flawed
The narrative - flawed
The brains behind them - flawed

Anything else?

TAM

"Flawed" is far too vague to be meaningful. Compare with:

The Official Conspiracy Theory
Science - post-9/11 revisionist physics
Methods - diversion, deception and downright lies
Support - collapsing at freefall
Brains - devious

 

[bardamu]

Walks like a duck. Quacks like a duck. What do you think the odds are that it's a duck?

What if it quacks like a CD?

 

[TruthersLie]

"Flawed" is far too vague to be meaningful. Compare with:

The Official Conspiracy Theory
Science - post-9/11 revisionist physics

Then I'm sure you can support that claim with any peer reveiwed engineering papers right?

or a peer reviewed physics paper which says that it is wrong?

Methods - diversion, deception and downright lies

by who? support and provide citations.

Support - collapsing at freefall

the towers collapsed at freefall? amazing. OMG.
Wtrc7 collapsed at freefall? amazing. OMG.

support.

Brains - devious

and you left out. Much smarter than you.

 

[TruthersLie]

What if it quacks like a CD?

but it doesn't, as has been explained to you repeatedly P.

 

[Horatius]

Plus how important is seismic readings and 'boom' recordings to CD theories. It depends on the theory, when the boom happened, and the distance to the source of the sound recording.

ps. the penthouse collapse means nothing to me. it doesn't eliminate certain CD theories

You're asking us to prove that this wasn't a CD, and yet you dismiss without any discussion the evidence we provide you. So, I must ask, what evidence are you looking for? Do you even have an idea what might convince you that there was no CD?

If you can't answer that question with something that's at least theoretically possible for us to supply, then we're all wasting our time here, you included.