Controlled demolition vs. the towers collapsing

[Disbelief]

Please quantify the mass shedding factor, then, if you didn't like my "quite a bit".

Why, it's your argument? You are the one using vague arguments to build in wiggle room. So, you quantify and provide how you came up with the number.

 

[ergo]

No I am saying that I never put the word "only" in my post, yet you kept trying to imply that I meant "only" at the base...when I did not state, nor did I mean that.

I'm in a stupid mood, so I'll just keep pointing this out for all to see:

here:

Debunkers: CD is done via explosives at the based of the building.

 

[T.A.M.]

Twin Towers: The Life of New York City's World Trade Center, by Angus Kress Gillespie.

Good start...so what was his source? Thats the way this IS SUPPOSE to work. You provide your source, and if he or she is not someone who had direct access to documents or information that would prove your argument, then if possible you provide the name of your source's source.

TAM

 

[ergo]

Why, it's your argument? You are the one using vague arguments to build in wiggle room. So, you quantify and provide how you came up with the number.

Actually, it's you folks who are talking about the debris field here, and trying to argue that the buildings didn't fall into their own footprint, because large, unquantified amounts of debris were ejected. Please do follow the discussion.

 

[BigAl]

Twin Towers: The Life of New York City's World Trade Center, by Angus Kress Gillespie.

Page 141 has the phrase "became remarkably profitable" in it.

 

[ergo]

T.A.M., it's well known the Twin Towers were a white elephant.

 

[T.A.M.]

I'm in a stupid mood, so I'll just keep pointing this out for all to see:

Ok, here is what I will admit.

When I posted the post in question, I was too brief, too incomplete with respect to what a CD FULLY involves. It was not meant to be an exposition on CD, it was a tripe little comment to prove a bigger point.

HOWEVER, my statement, as it stands, is not incorrect. CD does involve placing explosives at the base of a building. You, however, are trying to imply, despite the lack of me posting such, that I meant that in CD you ONLY place explosives at the base. So you, based on your incorrect guess as to what I meant, are trying to put words in my post.

TAM

edit:

to avoid bullcrap from people like you, what I should have posted (and I thought for anyone who reads here was implied) was...

Debunkers: CD is done via explosives at the based of (and through out) the building.

 

[ergo]

Page 141 has the phrase "became remarkably profitable" in it.

Page 141 in my edition talks about daredevil stunts. Can you please elaborate on your quote?

 

[Disbelief]

Actually, it's you folks who are talking about the debris field here, and trying to argue that the buildings didn't fall into their own footprint, because large, unquantified amounts of debris were ejected. Please do follow the discussion.

I am following the discussion, and seeing you do your usual. I understand you are a "No-Claimer" trying to play gotcha, never having a real argument and never taking a position. I know you can't quantify the mass, just as you can not draw a FBD or understand physics.

ETA:

T.A.M., it's well known the Twin Towers were a white elephant.

An actual claim, so I was mistaken!! Now, plan on providing evidence?

 

[ergo]

HOWEVER, my statement, as it stands, is not incorrect. CD does involve placing explosives at the base of a building.

Not true, as your verinage examples demonstrate.

 

[BigAl]

T.A.M., it's well known the Twin Towers were a white elephant.

Your source and mine say you are wrong.

The impact has indeed been all that and more. First a financial white elephant, the complex has come to be immensely profitable and has delivered on its promise to help rejuvenate Lower Manhattan. As a global symbol of New York, the Twin Towers are as identifiable as the Eiffel Tower, the Capitol dome or Big Ben are of their respective cities. But, as the project evolved, it also developed into a major factor in turning public attitudes against large-scale development, ambitious public works, and even against government action itself.

http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/World_Trade_Center_History.html

 

[T.A.M.]

T.A.M., it's well known the Twin Towers were a white elephant.

well known....source?

I am not debating the occupancy rate that you posted...I will plead ignorance on it. What I am questioning (not saying you are wrong) is whether the occupancy rate for the WTC was dramatically lower then that of the other skyscrapers in lower manhattan.

TAM

 

[ergo]

I know you can't quantify the mass, just as you can not draw a FBD or understand physics.

I appear to understand more than the majority of "debunkers" here, shockingly enough. Do you want to go back and look at X's free body diagram?

 

[Anders Lindman]

Compromising the core columns would not be the important failure mode to consider here. The rubble ripping away the floors would be. The important thing to remember is that the failure points on each floor would not be the column-to-column connections, they would be the floor truss to column ones. Once you remove those, the columns suddenly have no lateral stability and can fall under their own weight, much less be displaced by the masses hitting it.

Ok, could this kind of design of the towers have been made on purpose? It would fit my idea that they were constructed by design to collapse like they did.

 

[T.A.M.]

Not true, as your verinage examples demonstrate.

SO is it your position that controlled demolition DOES NOT involve explosives at the base of a building????

Please answer this, as this is what your response above implies.

TAM

 

[ergo]

Your source and mine say you are wrong.

Quote:
The impact has indeed been all that and more. First a financial white elephant, the complex has come to be immensely profitable and has delivered on its promise to help rejuvenate Lower Manhattan. As a global symbol of New York, the Twin Towers are as identifiable as the Eiffel Tower, the Capitol dome or Big Ben are of their respective cities. But, as the project evolved, it also developed into a major factor in turning public attitudes against large-scale development, ambitious public works, and even against government action itself.

http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildi...r_History.html

what Al leaves out:

... Originally published in Winter 1990/1991

 

[BigAl]

Page 141 in my edition talks about daredevil stunts. Can you please elaborate on your quote?

I'm looking at your book via Google Bookd with a search for "profitable".

We also have this source:

The impact has indeed been all that and more. First a financial white elephant, the complex has come to be immensely profitable and has delivered on its promise to help rejuvenate Lower Manhattan. As a global symbol of New York, the Twin Towers are as identifiable as the Eiffel Tower, the Capitol dome or Big Ben are of their respective cities. But, as the project evolved, it also developed into a major factor in turning public attitudes against large-scale development, ambitious public works, and even against government action itself.

http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/World_Trade_Center_History.html

 

[T.A.M.]

Ok, could this kind of design of the towers have been made on purpose? It would fit my idea that they were constructed by design to collapse like they did.

YOu can design what you like in theory, but as others have pointed out, the thousands of people who ACTUALLY built the building based on the design, would pick up on such obvious modifications/design issues...they were not all knuckle dragging zombies...there were many, many knowledgeable people who worked on the towers...they would have noticed, and made complaints about such disastrous design flaws.

TAM

 

[ergo]

SO is it your position that controlled demolition DOES NOT involve explosives at the base of a building????

I think we all know there are different kinds. This was the point made originally.

 

[beachnut]

Twin Towers: The Life of New York City's World Trade Center, by Angus Kress Gillespie.

How is exposing your lack of knowledge in collapsing buildings helping your CD and thermite theory?