Christine O'Donnell is not "Pro-Life"

[The Fallen Serpent]

Anecdotally a medical student friend of mine has dealt with the issue of AIDS treatment. One of the primary concerns is stopping the spread of infection, especially with the children born to HIV hitting their teenage years. Depending on the state, if medical staff suspects a patient undergoing treatment intends to engage in behaviour that results in trasmission without receiving consent from participating parties the medical staff can restrain the patient from leaving. Again, depending on the state it might lead to psychiatric committment and/or arrest.

According to CDC claims, even as the entire population of people living with HIV/AIDS has increased along with treatments, new infections have decreased. I found this especially informative on the CDC website on the issue: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/reports/hiv_prev_us.htm

Prevention programs for people living with HIV. Individual and small-group interventions delivered by health care providers, peers, and others have been shown to significantly reduce risk behaviors among people who have been diagnosed with HIV to help ensure they do not transmit the virus to others.16 To date, CDC has identified 10 proven interventions for HIV-positive people that meet stringent criteria for efficacy and scientific rigor.17

With HIV/AIDS there seems to be quite a bit of focus on prevention in research programs. I do not find anything supporting the claim that treatment might be increasing risks of further infections. It appears to be having the opposite effect, but I am a layman at these issues.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Which might be relevant if O'Donnell had said we shouldn't try to find a cure, but she didn't. Hell, she didn't even say that the government shouldn't spend money looking for a cure.

Right, just that there is too much funding going towards it.

 

[johnny karate]

Which might be relevant if O'Donnell had said we shouldn't try to find a cure, but she didn't. Hell, she didn't even say that the government shouldn't spend money looking for a cure.

No, but she does seem to be opposed to behavior that "celebrates the type of lifestyle which leads to the disease", whatever that's supposed to mean.

I wonder if she has voiced similar objections about the tobacco and fast food industries...

 

[johnny karate]

If women in third world countries would stop making poor lifestyle choices and being inferior in their cultures maybe I would be willing to help them.

Dude, those people aren't white or American. What are you, some kind of commie?

 

[Ziggurat]

Not to presume to speak for Spindrift, but the point might just be that lung cancer is also by and large a lifestyle disease, and yet no one is jumping up and down about how lung cancer research is overfunded.

Would you call someone evil if they did so? I wouldn't.

America: It's okay to be fat and lazy, just not gay.

Watch TV sometime. Watch portrayals of gays versus fat people, especially the jokes at their expense. Not gay-related jokes, which typically involve the humor of people being uncomfortable having their sexuality questioned, but making fun of actual gay characters for being gay.

Being gay is more socially acceptable in America than being fat.

 

[Ziggurat]

Right, just that there is too much funding going towards it.

Indeed. And why is she evil for having made that claim?

 

[johnny karate]

Not to presume to speak for Spindrift, but the point might just be that lung cancer is also by and large a lifestyle disease, and yet no one is jumping up and down about how lung cancer research is overfunded.

ETA: One could also make a similar argument for coronary heart disease.

Or type II diabetes.

America: It's okay to be fat and lazy, just not gay.

And hey, let's throw in cirrhosis of the liver while we're at it.

This post has been brought to you by Budweiser.

 

[Ziggurat]

If women in third world countries would stop making poor lifestyle choices and being inferior in their cultures maybe I would be willing to help them.

Correct. Infoexcavator is wrong, there are other ways.

But such other ways represent a pretty small fraction of those with AIDS and HIV in this country.

I'm well aware that the epidemiology of AIDS is different in poor countries is different than in the US. But the US is the relevant population for this discussion.

 

[Ziggurat]

No, but she does seem to be opposed to behavior that "celebrates the type of lifestyle which leads to the disease", whatever that's supposed to mean.

That's a mystery to you? She thinks it promotes promiscuity. Right or wrong about what that event celebrates, promiscuity sure as hell increases HIV transmission.

I wonder if she has voiced similar objections about the tobacco and fast food industries...

Were these industries holding government-sponsored celebrations encouraging the use of their products?

 

[Biscuit]

Which might be relevant if O'Donnell had said we shouldn't try to find a cure, but she didn't. Hell, she didn't even say that the government shouldn't spend money looking for a cure.

Nope, instead she implied that those with AIDS got what they deserved and we shouldn't help them. Ignoring scientific and cultural data and instead falling back on the ignorant assumption that AIDS is a world wide "lifestyle" epidemic. As if being raped in Africa was a lifestyle, as if being forced to marry a cheating husband was a choice, as if the only way to get AIDS was if it was your own fault. Because of her false and ignorant assumptions she wants to cast the sinners down in a very unchristian manner.

U.S. research into treatment and education on AIDS doesn't just benefit a group of needle sharing pagan homosexuals in San Francisco.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Indeed. And why is she evil for having made that claim?

Because of the other nonsense she says within the same breath. Sorry, but she obviously has some disdain for HIV victims.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Were these industries holding government-sponsored celebrations encouraging the use of their products?

Boehner passed out checks....

Do you really want to equate HIV/AIDS research to being government endorsement of promiscuity?

 

[Ziggurat]

Boehner passed out checks....

Then criticize Boehner. Go ahead, I won't stop you, and I won't call you evil.

Do you really want to equate HIV/AIDS research to being government endorsement of promiscuity?

I'm not. But research spending wasn't the only spending O'Donnell was talking about. Arguments based on the assumption that it was are therefore wrong.

 

[Biscuit]

I'm well aware that the epidemiology of AIDS is different in poor countries is different than in the US. But the US is the relevant population for this discussion.

No. The U.S. is one of the leaders in the GLOBAL fight against this disease. This disease in no more a uniquely american disease than it is a uniquely homosexual disease. It is people like her that want to believe this all just lifestyle that have helped the spread of AIDS. Just as abstinence only doesn't work being ignorant of AIDS doesn't help anyone either.

 

[johnny karate]

Would you call someone evil if they did so? I wouldn't.

No, just a hypocrite and possibly a bigot when they don't but whine about the overfunding of AIDS research.

Watch TV sometime. Watch portrayals of gays versus fat people, especially the jokes at their expense. Not gay-related jokes, which typically involve the humor of people being uncomfortable having their sexuality questioned, but making fun of actual gay characters for being gay.

Being gay is more socially acceptable in America than being fat.

If I were to post the number of Laughing Dogs suitable for that remark, there wouldn't be any left for anyone else to use ever again.

When was the last time a fat person was denied the right to marry? When was the last time a fat person was beaten and/or murdered for being fat?

 

[Ziggurat]

Nope, instead she implied that those with AIDS got what they deserved and we shouldn't help them.

But she didn't say that. You took that as an implication of what she said, because that's how her words were characterized in the links.

All sorts of mischief is possible when we get to judge everybody on what they imply, not what they say.

Ignoring scientific and cultural data and instead falling back on the ignorant assumption that AIDS is a world wide "lifestyle" epidemic. As if being raped in Africa was a lifestyle

The discussion isn't about AIDS in Africa, it's about AIDS in the US.

U.S. research into treatment and education on AIDS doesn't just benefit a group of needle sharing pagan homosexuals in San Francisco.

O'Donnell wasn't just talking about research. And why is it evil to think that it's not the job of the federal government of the United States to solve Africa's AIDS problem?

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

Being gay is more socially acceptable in America than being fat.

We may be trending toward that, but even with the TV version of events I personally find this to not be true yet. Depending on the circle most certainly. Maybe for the under 25 crowd. It does not feel so in the nearing 30 crowd. Anecdotally, I have never been threatened with consequences for association with fatties, either in terms of relationships or political support. I am in the high ranges of overweight, maybe just over the border into obese myself so maybe that helps against such blacklash. However, I have lost friends and received threats of consequences for associations with homosexuals, both for relationships and political support.

I cannot think of forms of discrimination against the obese that do now have an equivalent form against homosexuals. I can think of forms of discrimination against homosexuals that I have not heard of happening to the obese. For instance, I have not seen protests against schools allowing fat teachers.

I did however have a friend claim that he despised fat people. It seemed odd as he had a number of fat friends, and he despised people in general so it was difficult to tell any difference

 

[thaiboxerken]

I'm not. But research spending wasn't the only spending O'Donnell was talking about. Arguments based on the assumption that it was are therefore wrong.

Oh I know. She was also talking about contraceptives and how condoms not only are ineffective, but that condom use actually helps spread the disease. Guess you didn't hear her talk about that yet.

 

[roger]

Infoexcavator did say "responsible".

I wasn't aware that I could control my partners acts to such a degree as to ensure they never cheat on me or lie to me. I also wasn't aware that it was "responsibility" that keeps condoms intact - I always thought QC had more to do with it.

 

[Ziggurat]

No, just a hypocrite and possibly a bigot when they don't but whine about the overfunding of AIDS research.

There's nothing hypocritical about it, johnny. We all pick our pet issues. There's no obligation to spend your energies equally between different issues.

When was the last time a fat person was denied the right to marry?

Not too often. But I'll tell you what happens all the bloody time. In fact, it happens so often, and it's so expected and accepted, that you didn't even consider it: people are excluded from romantic relationships to begin with for being fat. Frankly, that's a much bigger deal.

When was the last time a fat person was beaten and/or murdered for being fat?

Nobody tracks that, so how would you even know? Why would you think you'd even hear about it?