Invitation to Derek Johnson to discuss his ideas

[T.A.M.]

Cut the blather Tom and get to the questions.

You can do it.

That has to be the best non answer i have seen in some time. How cowardly...your right about him tfk, in every way.

Let me know if he does something different from every other alleged truthee engineer, and actually shows us something new with all his engineering smarts...

TAM (EET, BSc-med sci, MD, CCFP)

 

[Derek Johnson]

LMAO...

My statement was both professional, precise & exactly on point.



And, buried about 1/4" below the surface of the question is the trivially simple answer to Derek's "giant engineering mystery".

Now, I have a suggestion for you. The engineers are talking. Time for trolls, children and the utterly clueless to be hush.


tom

The questions Tom.

Thanks.

 

[Oystein]

Not at all Oystein. What you do is you pump the nanothermite into the nollow interior of the core columns. This can be done very discreetly by say painters or any of a number of types of technical personnel. It could even be done while one of them stood chatting with a secretary in the WTC Towers.

Even all of Harrit's 100 tons of nanothermite could be planted in this way and no one would be any the wiser. Tell me it couldn't be done in this way.

Oh. You could replace one third of all the columns with fake columns made of balsa wood. You could replace 50% of the personal computers with lasers and point them at columns. You could invent all sorts of fancy ways to demolish a building. You could make this into a James Bond movie.

But surely you would have one bit of proof for this silly scenario?
For every pound of steel melted that way, you would find at least 3 pounds of solidified slack.
For every column that came apart by your weird methos, you would find two columns that would have one end distorted in most obvious ways, and dozends of clean-up workers who saw those strange ends and would remember.

So, Bill, you have proven that you have a vivid imagination. I commend you for that.
And now, if you please, your evidence!

 

[bill smith]

How many people do you think were involved in the cover-up of this (now solidified) "pool"?

You mean maybe it's still there ? Covered up ? Or covered over you mean maybe ? If somebody had the equipment for measuring a large magnetic anomaly they might find it to this day.

( Or maybe they just cut it up with thermal lances and took it away.)

 

[The Big Dog]

The questions Tom.

Thanks.

What is the staus of the litigation in the Federal Courts, Derek?

Thanks.

 

[T.A.M.]

The questions Tom.

Thanks.

So you just have some questions...well if they concern areas covered by the NIST report, go ask them.

We all see right through you...and this line of attack. It has been done here by others, who frankly have been better at it then you.

Try edumacating us poor simpletons....lol

TAM

 

[BigAl]

Not at all Oystein. What you do is you pump the nanothermite into the nollow interior of the core columns. This can be done very discreetly by say painters or any of a number of types of technical personnel. It could even be done while one of them stood chatting with a secretary in the WTC Towers.

Even all of Harrit's 100 tons of nanothermite could be planted in this way and no one would be any the wiser. Tell me it couldn't be done in this way.

Thermite is 55 pounds per cubic ft. (36 cuft per ton.)

Bill, You are saying that someone got 3,600 cubic ft of stuff up freight elevators or construction cranes where every truck delivery and every lift load is scheduled and moved by many people working for multiple companies?

And nobody noticed?

 

[Oystein]

A 10,000-ton pool of molten iron, well insulated from outside factors and without any metal heatsink to dissipate it's enormous temperature of perhaps 3,5000 degrees will cool very very slowly.
...'

If that pool was a whopping 2m (6'8") deep, and had the shape of a perfect circle, it would have a diameter of more than 28 meters (95ft).

I kind of think this is not worthy of any debate. Would you agree, Bill?
Besides, no one pulled anything from a pool of molten iron 28 meters across.

 

[bill smith]

Oh. You could replace one third of all the columns with fake columns made of balsa wood. You could replace 50% of the personal computers with lasers and point them at columns. You could invent all sorts of fancy ways to demolish a building. You could make this into a James Bond movie.

But surely you would have one bit of proof for this silly scenario?
For every pound of steel melted that way, you would find at least 3 pounds of solidified slack.
For every column that came apart by your weird methos, you would find two columns that would have one end distorted in most obvious ways, and dozends of clean-up workers who saw those strange ends and would remember.

So, Bill, you have proven that you have a vivid imagination. I commend you for that.
And now, if you please, your evidence!

I believe that 30-35% of the core columns were entirely melted all the way up to around the 88th floor. But from bottom to top in a fast sequence that allowed each melted segment to fall down through the hole of where the column underneath ghad been- all the way down into the basemants. The fact that each column was sheathed in fireproofing shielded any light that might have been seen and helped guide the liquid steel down through the hole. The fireproofing that was observed after the collapses was said to have a glassy texture.

So none of your 'burned column ends' or any of that rubbish. The remaining 60-odd percent of columns were not filled with nanothermite and were unblemished in that regard.

Incidentally Pystein removing a selected 30% of the core columns would not make the building fall down. The core had a factor of safety (FOS) of three-to-one.

 

[Oystein]

The questions Tom.

Thanks.

We are talking about your question, Derek. You posted the following "question" in post 905, coincidentally directed at me:

,,,Again, tell me about how those 4000 tons of steel from floors 7-14 offered no resistance to the 1G descent for 2.25 seconds...according to NIST (stage 2). Tell me your hypothesis on the apparent (so you imply) "no energy dissipation" through this column steel.
...

I can't answer that question. I am not an engineer, so maybe I am the wrong person.

But tfk is an engineer, and he spotted a major problem with your question. Namely: It is not an engineering question.

He kindly requests you to restate your question in precise engineering terms. So that another engineer might give a precise engineering answer.

(If that is what you are after. There is doubt here that you want engineering answers. After all, you make no visible efforts to get any yourself)

 

[tfk]

The questions Tom.

Thanks.

Please craft your "WTC7 falling without resistance" statement properly.

The earlier statement that you have made is utterly incompetent. I told you this already.

"Nobody, except truthers (including you), ..."

Please state PRECISELY WHAT PART of the building NIST said fell at APPROXIMATELY "g".

Then we'll move on to a better analysis of what it's acceleration profile really was.

Don't worry, Derek. I'll walk you thru the process. It's trivially easy, once you have the raw data.

Your turn first.

LEARN SOMETHING.

State the question precisely, please.


tom

 

[Resume]

Thermite is 55 pounds per cubic ft. (36 cuft per ton.)

Bill, You are saying that someone got 3,600 cubic ft of stuff up freight elevators or construction cranes where every truck delivery and every lift load is scheduled and moved by many people working for multiple companies?

And nobody noticed?

It was super-stealth-nano-thermite.

Or this particular theory is super-nano-stupid.

 

[T.A.M.]

Why would he take his theory out of the shadows and into the light of precision and detail, when it can work for him like snake oil in the shadows of ambiguity and vaguenesss?

TAM

 

[Derek Johnson]

Please craft your "WTC7 falling without resistance" properly.

The earlier statement that you have made is utterly incompetent. I told you this already.



Please state PRECISELY WHAT PART of the building NIST said fell at APPROXIMATELY "g".

Then we'll move on to a better analysis of what it's acceleration profile really was.

Don't worry, Derek. I'll walk you thru the process. It's trivially easy, once you have the raw data.

Your turn first.

LEARN SOMETHING.

State the question precisely, please.


tom

Still talking without answering.

Stick with the video Tom, NIST will follow as it relates to the so called "hollow shell" that nobody saw nor is visible in the NIST "models". The same NIST "models" that you and Ryan claim look like the videoed collapse.

Btw, your "it buckled Derek" (hundreds of posts ago) was far too simple.

Do better.

Thanks buddy.

 

[Oystein]

I believe that 30-35% of the core columns were entirely melted all the way up to around the 88th floor.

Do you have a rough idea about how much molten steel that would have produced? Would be identical to the mass of 1/3 of the core columns up to the 88th floor.
Then add to that twice that mass as thermite, as it would take that much to do the actual melting. You should even show that filling the columns with twice their mass in thermite would not overload them statically already.

But from bottom to top in a fast sequence that allowed each melted segment to fall down through the hole of where the column underneath ghad been- all the way down into the basemants.

Once you take out 1/3 of the core columns in the basement, these columns rest on nothing. As soon as the portion of dynamic load created by the beginning collapse at the top propagated through the remaining columns to the basement, we would have observed a classical from-the-bottom-collapse in addition to the top-down collapse.

The fact that each column was sheathed in fireproofing shielded any light that might have been seen and helped guide the liquid steel down through the hole. The fireproofing that was observed after the collapses was said to have a glassy texture.

Any fireproofing formerly attached to now molten steel would have separated from said steel, disintegrated to dust, and would not have been found as such. The glassy texture fireproofing you talk about was remnants still attached to never-melted steel.

So none of your 'burned column ends' or any of that rubbish.

Instead, huge amounts of formerly molten steel that would have posed enormous challenges to the clean-up crews.

The remaining 60-odd percent of columns were not filled with nanothermite and were unblemished in that regard.

I would have to do a quick research, but I am fairly certain that close to 100% of the core columns were accounted for. 0% of them showed signs of melting.



Nice James-Bondy ideas there, Bill!
Just where is your proof?
(If I can place a bet, I would bet that some version of "all evidence has been shipped to China" is on my way )

 

[T.A.M.]

Still talking without answering.

Stick with the video Tom, NIST will follow as it relates to the so called "hollow shell" that nobody saw nor is visible in the NIST "models". The same NIST "models" that you and Ryan claim look like the videoed collapse.

Btw, your "it buckled Derek" (hundreds of posts ago) was far too simple.

Do better.

Thanks buddy.

You should switch careers...you are a much bettwer question dodger then engineer...perhaps politics.

I would put you on ignore, as you are annoyingly obtuse, but at the moment you are providing me with enough of the previously mentioned gits and shiggles.

TAM

 

[Oystein]

Still talking without answering.
...

Pose a question competently, Mr. Engineer.

 

[bill smith]

Do you have a rough idea about how much molten steel that would have produced? Would be identical to the mass of 1/3 of the core columns up to the 88th floor.
Then add to that twice that mass as thermite, as it would take that much to do the actual melting. You should even show that filling the columns with twice their mass in thermite would not overload them statically already.



Once you take out 1/3 of the core columns in the basement, these columns rest on nothing. As soon as the portion of dynamic load created by the beginning collapse at the top propagated through the remaining columns to the basement, we would have observed a classical from-the-bottom-collapse in addition to the top-down collapse.



Any fireproofing formerly attached to now molten steel would have separated from said steel, disintegrated to dust, and would not have been found as such. The glassy texture fireproofing you talk about was remnants still attached to never-melted steel.



Instead, huge amounts of formerly molten steel that would have posed enormous challenges to the clean-up crews.



I would have to do a quick research, but I am fairly certain that close to 100% of the core columns were accounted for. 0% of them showed signs of melting.



Nice James-Bondy ideas there, Bill!
Just where is your proof?
(If I can place a bet, I would bet that some version of "all evidence has been shipped to China" is on my way )

There were 10 MILES of core columns Oystein. Surely you are not going to attemot to tell me that there were 10 MILES of massive core columns in the rubble we have seen ?

I know how much molten steel I am talking about Oystein. THe intact collective weight of the core was around 25,000 tons.

If you insist on the stupidity of talking about thermite when the subject is NANOthermite- another beast altogether let me tell you then knock yourself out.

I already told you that the building would not fall down from a removal of 30-35% of the core columns.

Fireproofing is made in part from Portland cement and sometime soon I will show you something that is very interesting.

The missing columns were accounted for in the 'shipping to China' ruubbish. That was only ever a cover for the missing steel.

 

[Disbelief]

Pose a question competently, Mr. Engineer.

Why would he? He will pat himself on the back and look for atta boys from his truther buddies, as he tells them that the JREFies would not answer his questions. He will keep playing games like the arrogant kid he is, always claiming victory.

ETA: Everyone, QUIT feeding Bill the troll! He has plenty of other threads going, he is just jealous someone else is getting attention. STOP feeding him!

 

[T.A.M.]

Bill,

The debris pile was huge in terms of surface area, and was over 3 storeys HIGH.

I see no problem with 50,000 feet of steel fitting in the volume that was GZ...do you?

TAM

Edit, oh bill, while yer at it, since you stated it, please provide a link confirming that the Spray On Fire Proofing used in the WTCs had portland cement in it.

Thanks