Is your harmony an inner or an outer ... or both?

[quadraginta]

Look out FSM! Jewelry is after your job.

'Spiritual' piercings perturb school

CLAYTON -- A Clayton High School freshman twice suspended because of her nose piercing says officials aren't respecting her little-known religion, which encourages piercings and tattoos.

Ariana Iacono, 14, was suspended from Clayton High for one day Wednesday when she refused to remove the small peridot stud in her nose. Ariana returned to school with the jewelry Thursday, then was suspended for three additional days.

Ariana and her mother, Nikki Iacono, take part in the Church of Body Modification, a small group with members across the nation. The church embraces spiritual growth through practices such as piercing.

"It's a spiritual thing," Ariana said of her piercing. "I feel whole."
​

Ariana is allowed to return to school Tuesday, but she said she will not remove the piercing. School officials say failure to remove it could result in a five-day suspension. The family said it has filed an appeal to the superintendent.

The Iaconos also have contacted the North Carolina office of the American Civil Liberties Union for help. No one from the ACLU was available for comment Friday. Iacono said that she is a single mother enrolled in college classes and that she can't afford a lawyer.

The CoBM, with members nationwide, has a website here. In case anyone is interested in joining up.

I wish the girl all the luck in the world. She's not living in a bastion of enlightenment ... or tolerance.


​

 

[phantomb]

Wake me up when someone from the Church of Carrying Guns In Public Buildings gets victimized.

 

[Sledge]

Take the bloody piercing out and stop being so silly. I hope this isn't going to turn into a colossal waste of time and money.

 

[Weak Kitten]

Wow, I didn't realize that religion was real! I always assumed it was some sort of joke, like the Jedi Order or the Followers of Cthulhu. You know, something you answer when you don't feel like explaining your religious stance for the thousandth time.

 

[shemp]

Wow, I didn't realize that religion was real! I always assumed it was some sort of joke, like the Jedi Order or the Followers of Cthulhu. You know, something you answer when you don't feel like explaining your religious stance for the thousandth time.

What exactly is a "real" religion? What's "real" to one person may not be to others. In my book, all religions are fake.

But the issue here is actually this: At what point does a belief system become acceptable as a religion? What are the criteria? Number of adherents? Length of time the belief system has existed? How acceptable it is to a majority of people? Whether or not it is accepted as legitimate by governments?

Let's look at the first of those criteria, "Number of adherents." Does the fact that one belief system has 1.5 billion adherents and another, say, 50 thousand, make the larger a more worthy candidate to be a religion? How small can the number of adherents of a belief system be that it doesn't qualify to be a religion? This is an example of the "sorites paradox" (or the "paradox of the heap"):

The sorites paradox (σωρός sōros being Greek for "heap" and σωρείτης sōreitēs a derived adjective meaning "heaped up") is a paradox that arises from vague predicates. The paradox of the heap is an example of this paradox which arises when one considers a heap of sand, from which grains are individually removed. Is it still a heap when only one grain remains? If not, when did it change from a heap to a non-heap?

So when is the number of adherents too small to be a "heap", and who makes that judgment? If the answer to the second part of that question is "the majority," then a lot of adherents of minority belief systems could find themselves no longer enjoying the same rights as those who adhere to a majority belief system. This is what has led to the existence of "state religion" which is exactly what the framers of the Constitution were trying to avoid when they included the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

As for the acceptability of this girl's belief system, it's pretty obvious that school officials don't accept it as a religion, and, quite likely, a majority of the local community. But who has the right to make that determination? Again, the Free Exercise clause applies.

Take the bloody piercing out and stop being so silly. I hope this isn't going to turn into a colossal waste of time and money.

I wonder if school officials prohibit the wearing of crosses on jewelry or clothing? Though I have no evidence of this, I doubt that they do. How do you feel about that? And if anyone is going to turn this into "a colossal waste of time and money", it'll be the school officials, not the girl.

 

[quadraginta]

What exactly is a "real" religion? What's "real" to one person may not be to others. In my book, all religions are fake.

But the issue here is actually this: At what point does a belief system become acceptable as a religion? What are the criteria? Number of adherents? Length of time the belief system has existed? How acceptable it is to a majority of people? Whether or not it is accepted as legitimate by governments?

<snip some good stuff>

I wonder if school officials prohibit the wearing of crosses on jewelry or clothing? Though I have no evidence of this, I doubt that they do. How do you feel about that? And if anyone is going to turn this into "a colossal waste of time and money", it'll be the school officials, not the girl.

Thanks, shemp. Great post.

One of the reasons I started this thread was to see whether or not people understood that the principle is always the same size even when the example may not be.

 

[Weak Kitten]

I guess by "real" I only mean that people actually believe and follow it's tenets. I guess that's kinda silly of me. The world is a very big place and in it you can find someone who really and truly believes just about anything.

 

[Beerina]

What exactly is a "real" religion? What's "real" to one person may not be to others. In my book, all religions are fake.

But the issue here is actually this: At what point does a belief system become acceptable as a religion? What are the criteria? Number of adherents? Length of time the belief system has existed? How acceptable it is to a majority of people? Whether or not it is accepted as legitimate by governments?

Let's look at the first of those criteria, "Number of adherents." Does the fact that one belief system has 1.5 billion adherents and another, say, 50 thousand, make the larger a more worthy candidate to be a religion? How small can the number of adherents of a belief system be that it doesn't qualify to be a religion? This is an example of the "sorites paradox" (or the "paradox of the heap"):



So when is the number of adherents too small to be a "heap", and who makes that judgment? If the answer to the second part of that question is "the majority," then a lot of adherents of minority belief systems could find themselves no longer enjoying the same rights as those who adhere to a majority belief system. This is what has led to the existence of "state religion" which is exactly what the framers of the Constitution were trying to avoid when they included the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

As for the acceptability of this girl's belief system, it's pretty obvious that school officials don't accept it as a religion, and, quite likely, a majority of the local community. But who has the right to make that determination? Again, the Free Exercise clause applies.



I wonder if school officials prohibit the wearing of crosses on jewelry or clothing? Though I have no evidence of this, I doubt that they do. How do you feel about that? And if anyone is going to turn this into "a colossal waste of time and money", it'll be the school officials, not the girl.

A cult is a religion with no political power.
- Tom Wolfe

 

[Slimething]

But the issue here is actually this: At what point does a belief system become acceptable as a religion? What are the criteria? Number of adherents? Length of time the belief system has existed? How acceptable it is to a majority of people? Whether or not it is accepted as legitimate by governments?

Damned good question, shemp. I think the answer for some (like me) is "a website". I was only convinced it was a "real religion" after I clicked a link and - behold - a website for said church! Like you, I consider them all fake so I accept extremely superficial signs for the validity of a subset of nonsense.

Your point is well taken though. Her religion would be no less valid without any evidence of an organization behind it.

 

[SezMe]

Ariana said:

"It's a spiritual thing," Ariana said of her piercing. "I feel whole."

I believe that is a misquote. It more accurately should read:

"It's a spiritual thing," Ariana said of her piercing. "I feel hole."

 

[defaultdotxbe]

But Johnston County Schools' dress code says students are not allowed to wear jewelry on the nose, tongue, lips, cheek or eyebrow. The policy says school leaders will make "reasonable accommodation" for students who request a waiver because of "a sincerely held religious belief, cultural heritage, or medical reason."

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/09/11/675002/spiritual-piercings-perturb-school.html

sounds pretty cut and dry, its a sincerely held belief, and from the photo in the article its not a very large or noticeable piercing, allowing it would certainly be a reasonable accommodation. also, i wonder if the school would allow a clear stud or retainer, and if they would be acceptable to the "church"

 

[phantomb]

But the issue here is actually this: At what point does a belief system become acceptable as a religion? What are the criteria?

Pragmatically, I think we all know that a belief system becomes a religion when the sum of its followers has so much power that politicians would have to think twice before saying or acting otherwise.

In linguistics there is a saying, "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy". Same basic idea.

 

[quadraginta]

I'm a bit curious (Not much, really. I suspect I know the answer.) what the school's rationale is for excluding only certain types of piercings. Why are ear piercings deemed harmless? What about other jewelry?

I'd like to see if they can come up with something that doesn't boil down to, "It's different. We find that unsettling, so it's disruptive.".

 

[quadraginta]

The piercing in question consists of a stud in the side of her nose about the size of a very small peppercorn. It really isn't even unattractive, and I say that as someone who usually doesn't find body piercings beyond earrings to be all that good looking. (Yeah, I'm an old fuddy-duddy.)

There's a short video with some footage of Ms. Iacono being interviewed by the local ABC affiliate here, in case anyone would like to see the evidence of her heinous criminal behavior. Good profile close-up at about the 1:30 mark.

In the accompanying article Ed Croom, the Johnston County Schools Superintendent is reported as saying, "it's up to principals to interpret and enforce the school system's dress code, which aims to create a safe learning environment."

I'm going to try not to get started on a diatribe, but this has "band-aid problem solving" written all over it, and the Johnston County school system is arguably in need of more than that.

Johnston County suffers from just a little bit of schizophrenia, or perhaps 'identity crisis' would be a better way to phrase it. Clayton, where the girl's school is, has become a somewhat unwilling bedroom community suburb of Raleigh, which is the state capital and several times more populous than all of Johnston County combined. The rest of the county struggles rather valiantly to maintain an 'Old South' semi-rural persona, but between being next to Raleigh, and having two major Interstate arteries passing through it there is a certain Disney flavor to that self image.