• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

Status
Not open for further replies.
Spot on, Mary!

BTW I did some PMF-style google investigation on the author of that blog.
You can really find info on people in most unusual places


Hey, I would take guitar from him.

Now I'm rather in doubt he has anything to do with FBI. But that "trip to Holy Land for training" somehow fits quite good.


I don't think he has anything to do with the FBI; he just cited them. He also mentioned reading Steve Moore's stuff; maybe that's what led to the misunderstanding.

Disclaimer: I'm not from USA and I may have a wrong idea about what a "BA Degree Biblical Studies" stands for.


Oh, I think your head is exactly in the right place about that. Let's just say that it doesn't qualify anybody to do what he's doing.
 
But...but....he's being earnestly discussed on other forums as an expert who does "statement analysis" as a profession! I'm confused!


It's actually kind of frightening to be on sites like the statement analysis one, where everyone agrees that unreality is reality. (Couple others I can think of like that, too -- wink, wink, nudge nudge.)

I imagine it's what the United States would be like if Sarah Palin were ever elected president.
 
But...but....he's being earnestly discussed on other forums as an expert who does "statement analysis" as a profession! I'm confused!


Perhaps these issues are best addressed separately.

If you are concerned about the content of discussion taking place in other fora, and wish to respond to that content, it may be that the most fruitful place to address those responses would be where the other discussion is taking place.

I have no constructive advice to offer you in regard to your other problem.
 
Perhaps these issues are best addressed separately.

If you are concerned about the content of discussion taking place in other fora, and wish to respond to that content, it may be that the most fruitful place to address those responses would be where the other discussion is taking place.

I have no constructive advice to offer you in regard to your other problem.

Thank you for your words of wisdom and advice. They are, as ever, invaluable and gratefully received.

Just for clarification though, does this mean that this forum should also never be discussing newspaper articles about the case, or books written about the case? Should we instead address any comments about such newspaper articles or books directly to the journalists/authors in question? I eagerly anticipate your direction in this matter, as I think I may have got this wrong in the past as well.

Oh and I think my state of confusion cleared up all by itself! Thanks for your concern though.
 
Thank you for your words of wisdom and advice. They are, as ever, invaluable and gratefully received.


You're more than welcome.

Just for clarification though, does this mean that this forum should also never be discussing newspaper articles about the case, or books written about the case? Should we instead address any comments about such newspaper articles or books directly to the journalists/authors in question?

<snip>


No.

Why? Is that what you think it meant?
 
Peter said:
Statement Analysis often just confirms what inquisitive people feel on instinct...
when they see the analysis they often say, "that's what I thought" or "I felt I was being lied to, and you just proved it to me!".
It is common sense.

Here are some examples that I find amusing in reference to the above statement:

note any inclusion of "shower" or "washing", "water" etc is an indication of sexual abuse.

Did he really say any inclusion? Using common sense, I have to say that this statement is really stupid. Obviously, these are very common words used almost daily by most people and is not an indication of any meaning other than the defined meaning of the word. His claim does not hold water similar to the way water goes down the drain when you are washing or taking a shower.

"we didnt go out."
Negation. The subject has told us what wasn't done. This is an inidication that the subject did go out.

LOL. I guess everyone that tells someone they didn't do something is a liar. Note the extra "i" in indication is indicative of a huge ego.

"but i didnt lock it, assuming that the person who left the door open"

(note: inclusion of something not done; also, doors locked, opened, closed; often associated with child abuse.

I saw where Peter is a LSW according to what a previous poster had mentioned. I would be very concerned about this.

"i then bought some
underwear because as it turns out i wont be able to leave italy for a
while as well as enter my house."

Note the inclusion of "underwear" as unusual. Another indicator of sexual activity as part of this event.

underwear may be as unusual for him as common sense.

To give this guy any credibility at all is beyond dumb.
 
It's okay, we probably won't be there much longer -- Chris and I very quickly became personae non gratae. That's the thanks we get for increasing traffic to that crazy dude's website.

Sadly, Knox and Sollecito's freedom has been in the hands of this type of crap science. The prosecution is even guilty of this. Whenever they had no evidence, they used crap science to manufacture it.
 
1) The type of statement analysis referred to in this FBI newsletter is at an extremely basic level: it examined lack of conviction in statements (e.g. qualifiers such as "I think", "sort of" "as far as I know") and extraneous information (irrelevant details, unnecessary additions). I think that a police officer straight out of police academy could recognise this definition of "statement analysis" as basic intuition.

I made no claims myself as to the validity of this method of analysis in general, and this example in particular. I agree with you that the study quoted was hardly a scientific one.

However, the FBI does evdiently use Statement Analysis as one of their investigative methods. I have not seen any peer-reviewed literature establishing or discrediting SA's validity. In the absence of this, I am going to partially defer to the experience of the FBI in criminal investigations and allow that it may have validity, but that has not been established.

However, if you (or anyone else) seriously feels that Statement Analysis is pseudo-science with absolutely no investigative validity, then I really think it is incumbent on you to inform the FBI and/or your political represntatives (US citizens only) of your viewpoint.
 
:rolleyes: Surprise, surprise. You ducked the questions that matter to the actual case, and continued in your attempts to attack me personally.

I have made no personal attacks upon you at all in this forum. If you think that I have, then by all means report said attacks to the moderators.

What I have done is correct you on two of your errors. You have since had two chances to either refute my assessment or acknowledge your errors. You have done neither. This is much closer to "ducking" behavior than the stance I have publicly taken.

Sorry, but that's not going to work. You aren't going to get out of answering the hard questions by picking a fight, and I'm not going to enable you while you do so. Stick to the topic.

The topic is a logical discussion of the Meredith Kercher case. You have so far evinced neither the ability to ackowledge error, nor to reason in a logical fashion. I will not debate with someone in good faith under these conditions.
 
Once more into the bleach

Raf KNEW it was Meredith's DNA on the knife found in his kitchen, the same knife that had been bleached, and he was responding to just that.

I only have time for a short note right now. But if you go back to the previous thread and search on bleach, you will see a number of references to how effectively bleach destroys DNA. If the knife were cleaned with bleach and especially if there were a small residue of bleach after rinsing, there is absolutely no way that there would be any DNA left. Note also that I said "if." I don't think anyone claimed with certainty that the knife was cleaned with bleach at the trial.
 
Glad you are here and glad to see you have an open mind. You do not have to answer any questions if you do not wish to do so. I hope the rest of the regular posters here will not think badly of you if you chose to not answer questions. I look forward to a discussion and debate with you on the issues you are interested in participating in.

And I will second that - Good post , I really like hearing things like this.

Thanks for the kind words. I will answer as many questions as I am able, as long as they are part of an honest discussion in good faith. However, much of my posting is done on down time at work, and so is highly variable.

Likewise, as the situation permits, I hope you will also respond to any fair questions that I may have for you.
 
You are of course free to answer my questions or not as you see fit. However if you prefer not to do so, possibly you could get in touch with the poster with the identical username and avatar to yours who posts on the PMF forums. Possibly that Fuji would be interested in participating in this discussion?

"That Fuji" and I are one and the same. However, as I stipulated in my last reply to you, I will not undertake any substantial discussions with you as long as you refuse to acknowledge error, argue logically, or convince me that I am mistaken in my assessment of your recent posts.
 
Patrik Lumumba's arrest

Apologies if this appears as something of a hit and run (again) - I still don't have enough time onlineto take part in the discussion.

Arturo de Felici, Chief of Police in Perugia;

Initially the American gave a version of events we knew was not correct. She buckled and made an admission of facts we knew to be correct and from that we were able to bring them all in.

Really - how much clearer could he have made it?

Since this statement was made immediately after the wrongful arrest of Patrik Lumumba on Nov. 6 2007 and well before Rudy Guede was placed at the murder scene by forensics, which "facts" OTHER than the involvement of PL could de Felici possibly be referring to?

In other words, how much more obvious could it be that the police had already made PL a suspect before forcing AK to name him?

Something like this, perhaps?;

Cop - "WHO was this text message sent to? WHO!!??"

AK - (squints at the tiny screen being brandished in her face and desperately trys to scan the text) "just let me read it ....."

Cop - *whack* - "WHO!!??"


And it's worth considering this, once again, from the inimitable Edgardo Giobbi;

"This has been an investigation of a truly psychological nature. We were able to establish guilt by carefully observing the suspects pyschologocal and behavioural reactions during the interrogations. We didn't need to rely on other kinds of investigation, and this method allowed us to get to the guilty partys very quickly."


Giobbi was basically admitting that they had NO EVIDENCE against Amanda or Raffael (or Patrik) when they arrested them, and coming up with b*llsh*t to obfuscate the fact. "We didn't need to rely on other kinds of investigation " indeed - what an utter buffoon.
 
Last edited:
"That Fuji" and I are one and the same.

So when you wrote "I should note that I do not post at the PMF forums", were you being, shall we say, "economical with the actualité"?

It seems ironic that one who claims to be so interested in "honest discussion" finds it impossible to be honest about where he has posted from one minute to the next. :rolleyes:
 
Apologies if this appears as something of a hit and run (again) - I still don't have enough time onlineto take part in the discussion.

Arturo de Felici, Chief of Police in Perugia;



Really - how much clearer could he have made it?

Since this statement was made immediately after the wrongful arrest of Patrik Lumumba on Nov. 6 2007 and well before Rudy Guede was placed at the murder scene by forensics, which "facts" OTHER than the involvement of PL could de Felici possibly be referring to?

In other words, how much more obvious could it be that the police had already made PL a suspect before forcing AK to name him?

Something like this, perhaps?;

Cop - "WHO was this text message sent to? WHO!!??"

AK - (squints at the tiny screen being brandished in her face and desperately trys to scan the text) "just let me read it ....."

Cop - *whack* - "WHO!!??"


And it's worth considering this, once again, from the inimitable Edgardo Giobbi;




Giobbi was basically admitting that they had NO EVIDENCE against Amanda or Raffael (or Patrik) when they arrested them, and coming up with b*llsh*t to obfuscate the fact. "We didn't need to rely on other kinds of investigation " indeed - what an utter buffoon.

Absolutely - that one statement by de Felici tells everything about what the police's knowledge (or, to be accurate, falsely-assumed knowledge) was prior to Knox's/Sollecito's questioning on the 5th/6th November.

I believe that the following is almost certain:

1) The police had examined Knox's text messages from the 1st November.

2) They had deduced (incorrectly) that the "see you later" text which she sent to Patrick was in fact a confirmation of a meeting later on the evening of the 1st.

3) They knew that Knox was telling them in her witness interviews that she had stayed in Sollecito's apartment all the evening and night of the 1st.

4) They therefore concluded that Knox was lying about being in Sollecito's apartment that whole evening/night, that the text message proved that lie since it clearly indicated an arrangement to meet with the recipient of the text. I think they also concluded that Sollecito was either covering for Knox or was implicated himself.

5) They therefore set up the interviews on the late evening of the 5th to confront both Sollecito and Knox with these "facts", and - to paraphrase de Felici's own words - to get them (Knox/Sollecito) to confirm what the police thought they (the police) already knew.

6) I don't know whether the police knew prior to the 5th/6th interrogations that the recipient of the message was Lumumba. I suspect they did, owing to their close ties with the mobile phone operators, and also because Knox's phone might very well have had Lumumba's number saved alongside his name in her address book. But it's possible that Lumumba had an anonymously-registered pre-paid SIM card. Either way, I believe that the police were convinced prior to bringing Knox and Sollecito in on the 5th that the recipient of Knox's text message was involved with Knox (and possible also Sollecito) in the murder.

And if all the above is true, then it makes a mockery of the police still treating Knox as merely a witness in her interrogations of the 5th/6th. I can accept that they might not have been sure of Sollecito's involvement at that time - although I think they clearly had a prior agenda to get him to at least admit that Knox could have left his apartment while he was sleeping. However, I believe that by the time Knox arrived in the police HQ on the evening of the 5th, the police had become convinced that a) she was lying about her whereabouts on the 1st; b) she had arranged to meet up with someone; and c) she was almost certainly involved in the murder. And they felt they had solid evidence (in the form of the misinterpreted text message) to back these allegations. If so, she should have been interviewed as a suspect and allowed access to an attorney long before the "confession/accusation" took place.
 
You're more than welcome.




No.

Why? Is that what you think it meant?

Well I would have thought that the same rules apply to any third-party discussions about the case, whether they be via an online forum, a newspaper article, a TV programme or a book. Clearly if it's not appropriate to discuss on this JREF thread what's being said on an online forum which is (nominally) dedicated to the case, then logically it must also be inappropriate to discuss on here what's being said in newspaper articles, book or TV shows about the case. Is there a difference then?
 
So when you wrote "I should note that I do not post at the PMF forums", were you being, shall we say, "economical with the actualité"?

It seems ironic that one who claims to be so interested in "honest discussion" finds it impossible to be honest about where he has posted from one minute to the next. :rolleyes:

I think Kevin_Lowe was quoting Fuji from a June 30, 2010 post:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6081792&postcount=3080

If this is the same Fuji who posts at PMF his join date at that forum is July 16, 2010.
 
I’m sure that's quite possible but I think your focusing on the wrong person, I’d like to know what was said during Raff’s questioning, something was told to him that made him change his story and made the cops suspect Amanda.
 
Last edited:
I’m sure that's quite possible but I think your focusing on the wrong person, I’d like to know what was said during Raff’s questioning, something was told to him that made him change his story and made the cops suspect Amanda.

Apparently, he didn't exactly change his story. It seems that the police put it to him that he could not be certain of Knox's whereabouts while he was sleeping, and he agreed with the police on that. This seemingly then morphed into the police telling Knox that Sollecito was no longer vouching for her whereabouts for a large portion of the night.

As I've said above, my view is that the police likely had a firm agenda for what they wanted to accomplish in their interviews with Knox and Sollecito that evening. I think (viz the police's own post-arrest statements) that the police already thought they knew who was involved in the murder - Knox, the recipient of her text message, and possibly also Sollecito. I think their goal therefore was to firstly get Sollecito to either crumble completely, or at the very least to admit that Knox could have left his apartment during the night without him knowing. Having obtained this latter concession from Sollecito, they could then confront Knox with two things: the text message which they felt certain was confirming a meeting with the recipient on the night of the 1st, and Sollecito's "change of story" in corroborating Knox's whereabouts.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom