Merged Two Mosques to be built near Ground Zero

[Fishstick]

It may not bother you and the lefties on this thread, but it certainly bothers me that projections are that 1 in five may be a muslim in the not too distant future.

Sharia laws anyone?

Considering your use of "inman" and "an islam" in this thread I'm going to assume you have very little idea of what sharia laws even is or what their scope is and be very skeptical of your claim of having read extensively about it. Unless you count hyperbolic media frothing as "reading", I guess.

 

[Ladewig]

It may not bother you and the lefties on this thread, but it certainly bothers me that projections are that 1 in five may be a muslim in the not too distant future.

Sharia laws anyone?

No thanks, none for me.



But more seriously, your argument seems to be

1. soon there will be 20% Muslims
2. ???
3. then we will have Sharia Law.

Can you go into more detail about how 20% of the population can institute Sharia Law?

 

[DC]

No. This.

Projections

Don Melvin writes that, excluding Russia, Europe's Muslim population will double by 2020. He also says that almost 85% of Europe's total population growth in 2005 was due to immigration in general.[19][21] Omer Taspinar predicts that the Muslim population of Europe will nearly double by 2015, while the non-Muslim will shrink by 3.5%, due to the higher Muslim birth rate.[22] Esther Pan predicts that, by 2050, one in five Europeans are likely to be Muslim.[22][23]

Professor Philip Jenkins of Penn State University estimates that by 2100, Muslims will compose about 25% of Europe's population. But Jenkins admits this figure does not take account of the large birthrates amongst Europe's immigrant Christians.[24]

Other analysts are skeptical about the given forecast and the accuracy of the claimed Muslim population growth, since sharp decrease in Muslim fertility rates[25] and the limiting of immigrants coming in to Europe, which will lead to Muslim population increasing slowly in the coming years to eventually stagnation and decline.
[from Wiki]

and ?

 

[amb]

Immediately stop any further immigration of muslims. Simple really! Allow the ones who are willing to live by Western standards only in.

Just jesting of course. But something along those lines would help. Islam is not just another religion, it is a way of life for its adherents. Like the woman says in that doco, "I wear the veil because allah wishes it so, no law of man can make me take it off.''

 

[Ladewig]

Immediately stop any further immigration of muslims. Simple really! Allow the ones who are willing to live by Western standards only in.

Just jesting of course. But something along those lines would help.

I don't get it. Was it a joke or do you suggest that governments do something along those lines?

Islam is not just another religion, it is a way of life for its adherents.

I can show you parts of the U.S. where if you were to say "Christianity is not a way of life for its adherents - it is just another religion," you would get punched in the face.


.................................
ETA: Oh, and post #1042 when you get a chance.
.
.

 

[DC]

Immediately stop any further immigration of muslims. Simple really! Allow the ones who are willing to live by Western standards only in.

Just jesting of course. But something along those lines would help. Islam is not just another religion, it is a way of life for its adherents. Like the woman says in that doco, "I wear the veil because allah wishes it so, no law of man can make me take it off.''

it is a religion just as the others are too, also Christianity is a sort of life style.

and what do you mean by western way of life? what should they do and what should they not?

How many Muslim families do you know personaly?

 

[DC]

Immediately stop any further immigration of muslims. Simple really! Allow the ones who are willing to live by Western standards only in.

Just jesting of course. But something along those lines would help. Islam is not just another religion, it is a way of life for its adherents. Like the woman says in that doco, "I wear the veil because allah wishes it so, no law of man can make me take it off.''

No you arent, thats what you would really say if you didnt know that most would heavily disagree with it.

 

[Darat]

It appears he's referring to the sharia-based arbitration tribunals. Unfortunately for him, that's pretty much the exact opposite of "Islamization", since said tribunals are only allowed to operate per laws established to allow binding arbitration, and only have authority over parties that explicitly agree to be bound by its rulings. Jewish Beth Din religious courts also operate under the same method.


...snip...

Good summary - for those that are interested here is a thread that goes into the matter in further detail: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123750

 

[Darat]

No. This.

Projections

Don Melvin writes that, excluding Russia, Europe's Muslim population will double by 2020. He also says that almost 85% of Europe's total population growth in 2005 was due to immigration in general.[19][21] Omer Taspinar predicts that the Muslim population of Europe will nearly double by 2015, while the non-Muslim will shrink by 3.5%, due to the higher Muslim birth rate.[22] Esther Pan predicts that, by 2050, one in five Europeans are likely to be Muslim.[22][23]

Professor Philip Jenkins of Penn State University estimates that by 2100, Muslims will compose about 25% of Europe's population. But Jenkins admits this figure does not take account of the large birthrates amongst Europe's immigrant Christians.[24]

Other analysts are skeptical about the given forecast and the accuracy of the claimed Muslim population growth, since sharp decrease in Muslim fertility rates[25] and the limiting of immigrants coming in to Europe, which will lead to Muslim population increasing slowly in the coming years to eventually stagnation and decline.
[from Wiki]

See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8189231.stm

 

[JihadJane]

It must be nice for you to have a logic system that can be modified to suit your preconceptions. Come to think of it, it sounds kind of like religion.

The majority of the terrorism these days is done in the name of Allah, and it's not only against "us". That applies to terrorist "states" as well, and I have said as much before.

There is something rotten in Islam, but not in all Muslims.

My criticism of Muslims in general is that they, like you, can't see that there is something about their teachings that is particularly prone to justifying violence, or if they see it they have a handy apology for it.

Clear?

What do you think is rotten about countries like the UK or the US that makes them so prone to practicing and justifying violence?

What's their "handy apology"?

Islam?

comooon, use normal words, i had to look it up first, didn't know it

 

[amb]

Great. Hours of reading material !

 

[Travis]

Does it need to be pointed out that the Muslim population in the US is generally very well integrated into western society?

 

[Chaos]

amb,

what is an "inman", and why are you using this term instead of referring to the person in question by the term actually describing what he is?

Would you agree to revoke voting rights for Republicans if a poll showed that 70% of Democrats think Republicans do not deserve voting rights?

Would you agree to reinstate slavery of Blacks if a poll showed that 70% of all Whites think Blacks do not deserve freedom?

Which other constitutional rights should be withheld from which groups just because other groups want that?

 

[Darat]

What do you think is rotten about countries like the UK or the US that makes them so prone to practicing and justifying violence?

What's their "handy apology"?

Islam?

Isn't it obvious? We've been Islamified - oh my god* it's too late THEY ARE HERE!





* For my personal safety of course I mean Allah.

 

[marksman]

"We have met the Muslims, and he is us."
-_{Apologies to Pogo}

 

[Elind]

So... kind of like Christianity, then.

Would you oppose the construction of a church within the vicinity of an abortion clinic that was attacked by Christian extremists?

Like Christianity in past ages, yes.

I don't oppose this Mosque, or whatever it is. Why do you ask that question?

 

[Cleon]

[citation needed]

The FBI database seems to disagree when it comes to US domestic terrorism:

http://fishstick.eu/piechart.jpg
(FBI Source)
The numbers for Europe aren't very different:
http://fishstick.eu/2008_eu.jpg
(Europol source)

Ooh, that's gonna get ignored.

 

[Elind]

Ooh, that's gonna get ignored.

I wasn't aware the majority of US terrorism was committed by Latinos. I presume that the definition of terrorism here includes drug gangs. If that makes you happy about dismissing religious justified terrorism, be my guest.

If you had paid attention to anything I said earlier, instead of your cherry picking sentences, you would realize that I see also what happens in certain Islamic territories.

I also presume that you think the people (and Merkle) in Germany and France are also bigots for daring to suggest that they have a major violence problem with their Muslim populations, but regular riots and car burnings don't constitute classic terrorism, so you can play with statistics to satisfy yourself.

 

[Fishstick]

I wasn't aware the majority of US terrorism was committed by Latinos. I presume that the definition of terrorism here includes drug gangs. If that makes you happy about dismissing religious justified terrorism, be my guest.
.

If you followed the link you would see the majority of those terrorism numbers are overwhelmingly things like bombings and arson, with a much smaller amount of shootings and robberies. Not so much drug wars. Here's another graph because I love pie:

(Also source FBI Database, Terrorism by event 1980 - 2005)

If you had paid attention to anything I said earlier, instead of your cherry picking sentences, you would realize that I see also what happens in certain Islamic territories.

What happens in islamic territories with a vastly different government, culture and demographic is not really relevant to what happens in the US or Europe now is it?

I also presume that the people (and Merkle) in Germany and France are also bigots for daring to suggest that they have a major violence problem with their Muslim populations, but regular riots and car burnings don't constitute classic terrorism, so you can play with statistics to satisfy yourself.

They would be if they suggested such a thing. Good thing they didn't! Merkel in fact made a good point that it was important not to associate violence with a particular religion:

"This is misleading. Violence amongst young people is often a sign that they see no perspective for themselves. All that helps is education, education, education."

"Our state is making many offers, but the main responsibility lies with the parents, and cannot be taken on by schools or the state," Merkel added.
[...]
Merkel said it was crucial to maintain law and order in violent city districts with high migrant populations. She said one solution would be to hire more civil servants with a foreign background.

"It would surely help if we had more migrants in the police, youth welfare offices and other authorities," Merkel told Bild.

I could not find Sarkozy's statements on having a major violence problem with their muslim population. Can you source it?

 

[A'isha]

I wasn't aware the majority of US terrorism was committed by Latinos. I presume that the definition of terrorism here includes drug gangs.

Or, you know, you could click on the FBI link yourself and see exactly what they count as a terrorist act.

If that makes you happy about dismissing religious justified terrorism, be my guest.

He didn't dismiss anything.

If you had paid attention to anything I said earlier, instead of your cherry picking sentences, you would realize that I see also what happens in certain Islamic territories.

Noting that most terrorist attacks in Muslim-majority countries are carried out by Muslims isn't a point, it's a tautology. It's like noting that most crimes committed on military bases are carried out by members of the military, and then using that to conclude that there's a vast "military criminal" problem.

And, as shown by the FBI and Europol data, in countries where Muslims are not the majority, the number of Islamic terror attacks makes up but a small fraction of all the terror attacks in those countries.

I also presume that the people (and Merkle) in Germany and France are also bigots for daring to suggest that they have a major violence problem with their Muslim populations,

Because, as the Interpol data shows, they don't. In 2007, Germany had fifteen times as many terrorist attacks (either attempted or carried out) by separatist groups than Islamic groups (1 versus 15). In the same year, France had no terrorist attacks either attempted or carried out by Islamic groups, but 254 by separatist groups.

The Islamic terror threat in Germany and France pales in comparison to the separatist terror threat. So why are you so worried about Muslims and not, say, Corsicans?

but regular riots and car burnings don't constitute classic terrorism, so you can play with statistics to satisfy yourself.

You do realize that if you want to count regular riots and car burnings as "terrorist acts", that the proportion of those carried out by Islamists as opposed to non-Islamists would be even smaller than it is with them excluded, right? Especially in the US.