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Coast to Coast AM Debate, August 21 2010

But you just agreed that nothing can be made of the interval between two adjacent points on the graph. That the graph has to be smoothed out, taken as an average.
Now you do want to find significance in the slope between two adjacent points ???
I agreed that the dot at 1.5 might have been a little high, thus there may not have been a pause. The next dot is below the line so correcting it would put it on the line. There is still an instantaneous transition to FFA.

OK - then the reduced slope between 2.5 and 2.75 secs shows < g acceleration, therefore resistance, therefore not CD. OK?
It can't fall faster than FFA and the average is FFA so 2.5 - 2.75 could not be less than FFA.

You try to undo the fact that WTC 7 fell at FFA for ~100 feet with your endless mind bending reasons trying to dispute it.

NIST stated clearly that WTC 7 fell at FFA for ~100 feet.
Their model does not fall at FFA.

http://a.imageshack.us/img821/4926/n...allgraphe4.jpg
 
I agreed that the dot at 1.5 might have been a little high, thus there may not have been a pause. The next dot is below the line so correcting it would put it on the line. There is still an instantaneous transition to FFA.

It can't fall faster than FFA and the average is FFA so 2.5 - 2.75 could not be less than FFA.

No, the dots at 1.5 and 2.0 are smack on the line. It's the dot at 1.75 that is noticeably low, and you take this as somehow significant. In fact, with the possible exception of 2.5, it's the worst fit of all to the curve. Taken literally it would show a reduction in velocity from 1.5 to 1.75.

You cannot read any significance into the spread between two data points when they are this inaccurate.

It's utterly impossible to get you to face logic even when you openly and cheerfully agree with it. How bizarro is that? What happens for you to forget that you agreed with a fundamental point only a few posts ago and then start arguing against it again?

Anyhoo - this is all a waste of time, energy and bandwidth. Cheerio.
 
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You keep repeating the same questions and making the same false statements. You don't know what can be done with nano-thermite.

False. The argument against the fires is that fires cannot cause the simultaneous failure of all the support columns. A fire induced collapse would take a long time like the Windsor Tower.
But of course it wasn’t just fire induced collapse was it. It had an airliner plunge into it full of fuel also.

We all know here on Jref that a common tactic of any denier (whether consciously acknowledged or not) is to pick a small point and then make sweeping claims from it. When that’s debunked they move onto the next one.

I think Tony Z, though obviously has some ability has got carried away with his own hypothesis. He thought he found a significant issue, probably spent some time analyzing his theory and put together a "paper" which he is obviously proud of. Lots of back slapping by TM boys and girls later, the paper gets examined by other qualified peeps who then, much to Tony Z's distaste pull it apart. He's been trying to defend it ever since.

And, as has been presented time and time and time again, after lengthy debunking discussions we still note the following:

1. CD/inside job, there was no reason to do it and I don’t believe the US gov would commit mass murder to get a war. They went into Iraq over what now appears to be questionable circumstances. If they could pull off 9/11 they certainly could have planted a few WMD in Iraq.

2. No explosive noises. I've watched CD and they are noisy.

3. The collapse started where the plane impacts occured, Rather convenient, and not to mention that any CD primed and ready would have been knocked out by the impact at that point. Including thermite etc.

4. CD takes alot of prep work, a building that size would take months to ensure complete collapse (unless progressive collapse is possible, but we know this anyway right.) It would have to be well wired as well because imagine if the CD didnt work and the towers remained standing. The evidence would be all over the place.

5. Why blow up ALL the buildings. One would have been more than enough and much less risky.

6. Why have the planes hit, and then also blow them up? For whatever the TMer's have for motive, I think a plane hitting both towers would be more than enough.

7. No evidence of CD found anywhere at ground zero.

8. The collapse does not look like a CD anyway, when you really look at it. Also, I would think getting the building to "topple" would be easier from a CD point of view and would create more collateral damage.

9. Im an atheist but if I believed in a hell, Mr Gage would be going there. He's directly profiting from the deaths of thousands of innocent people who died. Very bad man. And being dumb doesnt make up for it either. Its not like he hasnt been told many times.

You need to face it TZ and C7, you didnt just lose the argument, you never really had any argument to start with. Sorry but I’m afraid its all true and one day your going wake up and realize what a complete knob-head you have been. We are just trying to get you there quicker.
 
If used in the usual manner.

We don't know how nano-thermite could have been used because it's top secret military stuff.

Do you realize how stupid this sounds? It's top secret military stuff, yet you have inside knowledge that it was used. Yet, you don't have the first clue HOW it was used.

How can you be so sure, and so clueless at the same time?

(wait, don't answer that, we all know how. Never mind) :D
 
If there were 58 columns, they'd all have to fail at the same time.

So then you agree that Tony's statement - ffa is impossible without CD, etc - is a lie, correct?

For if even someone as uneducated as you can spot the conditional need for all 58 columns to fail in order to make this happen, then Tony being wrong can be thrown away as a possibility, and all that remains is that he lies.

Nothing new there.....
 
Do you realize how stupid this sounds? It's top secret military stuff, yet you have inside knowledge that it was used. Yet, you don't have the first clue HOW it was used.
This is the denier choir tag-team merry-go-round.

You have not been reading this thread. We have been over that. Nano-thermite was found in the dust. There is an abundance of microscopic iron spheres in the WTC dust that can be created by nano-thermite. The RJ Lee Group said that nearly 6% of the WTC dust was these iron spheres and they were created during the WTC event. i.e. They were not from cutting torches. The fact that nano-thermite is in the dust is proof that it was used to melt steel. There is no other reason for it to be there and it is consistent with the iron spheres.

Others have already run thru the denier playbook so please don't do that again. Go back and read.

ETA: Correction. Nano-thermite was discussed on another thread.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6274621&postcount=653

On this thread:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6296268&postcount=1086
 
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This is the denier choir tag-team merry-go-round.

You have not been reading this thread. We have been over that. Nano-thermite was found in the dust. There is an abundance of microscopic iron spheres in the WTC dust that can be created by nano-thermite. The RJ Lee Group said that nearly 6% of the WTC dust was these iron spheres and they were created during the WTC event. i.e. They were not from cutting torches. The fact that nano-thermite is in the dust is proof that it was used to melt steel. There is no other reason for it to be there and it is consistent with the iron spheres.

Others have already run thru the denier playbook so please don't do that again. Go back and read.

ETA: Correction. Nano-thermite was discussed i=on another thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6274621&postcount=653

Did the RJ Lee group say that they found this suprising? No, they did not.
 
... Nano-thermite was found in the dust. ...
A moronic delusion, since when they tested the dust the energy of the dust did not match the energy in thermite.

Thermite leaves products, zero products found at the WTC. Thermite would fuse iron onto the steel; not found.
Thermite would leave evidence on the steel.

Gage is an idiot or a fraud and evidence of thermite was never found to be used on the WTC complex. 911 truth failed. Gage spreads lies. Failing to see Gage is spreading lies is self-critiquing.
 
No, they usually try to avoid hitting other buildings when they CD a building. 7WTC hit two other buildings, one on the roof.

This is a red herring. The issue is that people here are claiming that timed explosions could never cause the simultaneous failure of 58 steel columns but random office fires could easily do just that.


So then you agree that Tony's statement - ffa is impossible without CD, etc - is a lie, correct?

The simultaneous failure of all WTC 7 perimeter columns was not possible without planning and preparation. If FFA of the upper floors "in a single unit" depends on such a failure, that must be impossible too.


PLease go back and address what I asked and try not to change the subject. Dodging and weaving does not help your argument.

I didn't change the subject. My comments show that your questions are redundant.
 
This is a red herring. The issue is that people here are claiming that timed explosions could never cause the simultaneous failure of 58 steel columns but random office fires could easily did do just that.

"random office" and "easily" are strawman or something. Call it your attempt at spin. I fixed it for you.

Nothing about the fire-caused collapse surprised any of the eyewitnesses or anyone with relevant expertise that is familiar with WTC7's unusual all-steel structure and that the water source was destroyed on 9/11.

You'd never learn this stuff from Richard
Gage, AIA.
 
I didn't change the subject. My comments show that your questions are redundant.

No, my questions address a specific claim that you made. Of course, I do not expect you to answer since that would not fit into your fantasy.
 
The simultaneous failure of all WTC 7 perimeter columns was not possible without planning and preparation. If FFA of the upper floors "in a single unit" depends on such a failure, that must be impossible too.
I already explained how a simultaneous failure can happen due to load redistribution. It's the expected result of the transition between "barely bearing the weight of the building" to "no longer able to bear the weight of the building".

Care to explain how is it possible that no trace of any incendiary material was found in any of the columns of WTC7/WTC1/WTC2, and that no explosions were heard during either collapse?
 
This is the denier choir tag-team merry-go-round.

You have not been reading this thread. We have been over that. Nano-thermite was found in the dust. There is an abundance of microscopic iron spheres in the WTC dust that can be created by nano-thermite. The RJ Lee Group said that nearly 6% of the WTC dust was these iron spheres and they were created during the WTC event. i.e. They were not from cutting torches. The fact that nano-thermite is in the dust is proof that it was used to melt steel. There is no other reason for it to be there and it is consistent with the iron spheres.

Others have already run thru the denier playbook so please don't do that again. Go back and read.

ETA: Correction. Nano-thermite was discussed on another thread.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6274621&postcount=653

On this thread:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6296268&postcount=1086


Sorry, I must have missed it, but where EXACTLY does the RJ Lee report indicate that thermite in any form was found?
 
This is a red herring. The issue is that people here are claiming that timed explosions could never cause the simultaneous failure of 58 steel columns but random office fires could easily do just that.

58 steel columns did not fail simultaneously. Where do you get this *** from? A septic tank?

The simultaneous failure of all WTC 7 perimeter columns was not possible without planning and preparation. If FFA of the upper floors "in a single unit" depends on such a failure, that must be impossible too.

Source for this claim? Since we know that the exterior columns did not fail simultaneously, I would love to know where you got this gem from.......
 

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