Split Thread SAIC, ARA and 9/11 (split from "All 43 videos...")

[Oystein]

BigAl,

For some reason, I did not see this post until just now. Thank you for posting the links to those videos. They are truly useful and your posting them is highly consistent with an informational, analytical approach to posting in this thread. I do wish a few others would do the same....

You probably missed several of equally informative posts with links to valuable information, posted by me.

It behooves you to go back and research them.

 

[Oystein]

...it behooves us to examine closely what lasers can do...

Several of us have already done that: Mobile lasers can heat a target with energy amounts transferred at an order of magnitude that is contained in a small jar of breakfast spread. That heat, if focussed cleverly, can at most melt small amounts (order of magnitude: 100g) of steel.


It is about time that you, too, examine closely what lasers can do. We are waiting for your results.
Or you agree that our findings are about accurate.
Or you concede that you are unable to know anything at all about that question, in which case the discussion is over and the DEW claim is dead.

 

[BigAl]

In the main, however, it must be remembered that DEW is not just laser weapons, but it behooves us to examine closely what lasers can do. Your video links are very helpful in that respect.

Thank you, BigAl, well done.

If any other type of beam (plasma, x-ray, radio etc) worked any better, we'd be using it instead.

 

[jammonius]

VIDEO ANALYSIS -- Calling all Posters, Lurkers and Victims Family Members

If any other type of beam (plasma, x-ray, radio etc) worked any better, we'd be using it instead.

Care to elaborate, BigAl?

Meanwhile, as promised, here's an assessment of one of the videos, the one found at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URxHVYPIJaw&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Explanation table:

1--Not clear what demonstration actually shows. Caption references Boeing.

2--Beginning of a 2009 demonstration of the Airborne Laser. Note the phrasing in the video capture:

"Approved for Public Release..."

Does that phrasing bother any of you, give you pause for concern, raise any questions at all? Anyone at all?

3--Here begins the test part of the video. Note what is seen: Next to nothing, except a grainy, black/white shadowy imagery. Yet another "shadow thingy" presentation!! Oh! No! We will have to designate this one SHADOW THINGY 2.
Note: Does it bother anyone that what we are presented with here is inconclusive, nonrevealing and next to useless as real information concerning DEW? Anyone at all?

4--Presumably we are seeing something here, but what is it? DEW operate at the speed of light and are, in effect, lightwave weapons. What is going on in this grainy, shadow thingy imagery is not at all clear.

Can anyone shed any light on this (pun intended).

5--Ditto

6--OK, posters, lurkers and victims family members. Pull up your chairs, freshen up your drinks (other than kool-aid of course), replenish your snacks, take another hit or whatever floats your boat. We now have a tie-in to 9/11. In this image we see something that is reminiscent of something seen by a direct 9/11 DEW witness, our Patricia Ondrovic. How many posters remember her statement?

We see three thingys out in the sky. Now, let's compare what is seen in photo # 6 with the following quotation:

"I saw something in the sky, it was a plane, but it was way out. It looked like it was over Jersey or something, then it wasn't there anymore. I saw a small fireball, and it was gone. I saw two other planes. One came in one way, and the other came in the other way, and there was a plane in the middle that was way far off in the distance. Then the plane in the middle just disappeared into a little fire ball. It looked like the size of a golf ball from where I could see it. And the other two planes veered off into opposite directions. I just kept on running north."

Patricia Ondrovic is a valid eyewitness. She was an EMT who's statement is among the 503 Task Force Witness Statements.

Link: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110048.PDF

See pg. 7/14

Actually, Paticia Ondrovic is one of several DEW eyewitnesses. Please consider reading her entire statement for those interested in evidence of DEW.

7--Something appears to have gotten zapped.

8--Now we see a beam fading process.

9--From the 0:42 segment (where photo # 8 is from) to the end, 1:14, we see a gradual fade out to black, or grainy gray, as it were.

Much is revealed in this little video about DEW, but much is also kept hidden. That is why we need to make sure we get more information from SAIC and ARA and BOEING.

 

[lapman]

Greetings Lapman,

Good to hear from you. I gather you have been pursuing other threads. Your participation here is much appreciated for the value you add to the thread.

Thank you for the kind words

.
That said, it would appear you are feigning not to be able to distinguish elements of reason and of proof. Surely you "do enough nuance" to be able to distinguish forensic evaluation of alleged plane crashes based on the recovery of parts with serial numbers on the one hand from the world of top secret lethal weaponry on the other, right?

Unlike you, I understand what is required for forensic evaluation of aircraft parts is in the real world. It was proven to you months ago that the lead forensic investigative agency for aircraft crashes, NTSB, does not have this requirement. You have yet to prove that ANY agency has this requirement, so it is your requirement and yours alone. Cherry picking what one person states is not proving policy.

To begin with, the plane parts were not the subject of the secrecy apparatus, as are DEW and PSYOPs capabilities; all as more fully articulated in the WashPost articles on TOP SECRET AMERICA that form a part of this thread.

Here you are using a source that you have already deemed unacceptable. So the onus is on you to provide official documentation to support your contentions. Remember, this is your standard that you require us to abide by, therefore you have to abide by it as well. Again, by your standard, the DEW you claim brought down the towers and 7 does not exist.

 

[Mr. Skinny]

(snip)
2--Beginning of a 2009 demonstration of the Airborne Laser. Note the phrasing in the video capture:

"Approved for Public Release..."

Does that phrasing bother any of you, give you pause for concern, raise any questions at all? Anyone at all?

Nope. The government tends to label things they've approved for public release with "Approved for Public Release".

 

[TJM]

People around here like things expressed in simple terms, so let's see if this has the intended effect of causing posters to recognize their responsibility:

Simple terms?

No.

The people on this board are thorough. These are people who've argued thermite down to its molecular structure, who interpret data from avionics, who've examined the World Trade Center right down to its bolts. They want anything but simple terms.

Do not confuse "simple terms" with what they want from you, which is a "simple answer".

"...It's the MIC stupid..."

Let me hasten to add I am not calling posters, lurkers or victims family members "stupid." Rather, I am using a variation on the iconic "it's the economy stupid" theme that has been used politically to focus on economic solutions to recesssions and such like.

So it is here. The focus of your attention needs to be on the MIC and not upon trying to prove to yourself that you are right and I am wrong.

You are not wrong/right and neither am I. The issue is the MIC.

Grasp that.

"...It's the EVIDENCE stupid..."

Grasp this:

Where in this thread have you given evidence that your flying holograms and death rays from space exist?

How were they used on 9/11?

Don't you think those questions deserve an answer if you're claiming that the World Trade Center was destroyed in such a manner?

If all you're on about are these MIC boogymen, then I'm afraid that's off topic for the 9/11 sub forum, so unless you'd like to explain how your imaginary weapon system worked on 9/11, I'll have to ask the mods to have this thread move to the appropriate forum.

 

[tsig]

You remain stuck, perhaps hopelessly so. I will try once more with you, then, after that, you are on your own.

I will put this in outline form for ease of understanding:

I---Eisenhower Admonition -- inappropriate to play dumb re MIC
A. MIC is the problem
B. MIC is hard to get at
1. Well financed
2. Cloaked in secrecy
3. Beyond control and oversight
II--SAIC / ARA
A. MIC stalwarts in DEW and PSYOPs
B. Initiators of DEPS
C. Directed Energy Directorate = .mil and .gov conduit for DEW

In the above outline you have the key elements needed to either come to terms with your responsibility in dealing with the MIC in general, SAIC and ARA, in particular, or to remain useless with respect to the urgent need we have of getting the MIC under control.

If you do not view the matter that way or do not want to participate from that perspective, then fine. Post as you see fit. However, you will not receive any replies from me to your meanderings.



We are past the point where your rhetorical questions are relevant. Surely you know I am not about to put you in a position where you get to judge the adequacy of my responses. You are not my teacher. If you do not have answers to your questions by now, then either skip ahead or remain where you are. The choice is yours.



As you sit here at this moment, do you not have any recollection of my posting that I am not here trying to prove a darn thing to you or anyone else? Did you likewise miss the part where I said I do not challenge your beliefs and that you are free to believe anything you like for as long as you can believe it?

Why are you so stuck?



I can only assume that your derail is not an intentional ploy to protect the MIC from discussion.



You are all but hopeless.



Your sense of what I must do is faulty. I am not obliged to prove anything to you and I do not allow you to assume that role with respect to my posts. You prove what you want to prove and I will assert what I want to assert or claim and will demonstrate the accuracy of the assertions/claims as I see fit.

I am not a student of yours and I am not your teacher. As to each role, you are not a suitable candidate for the opposite one, in relation to me, as far as I am concerned.

If you have anything of substance to post, then post it. Your questions are not substantive. They are rhetorical.



You need it.

I get it MIC is the bogeyman!

 

[jammonius]

Ignorance of the MIC is no excuse

I get it MIC is the bogeyman!

Tsig,

Oh boy, you are not getting it at all.

The MIC is more than just a bogeyman and certainly not something to ridicule or take lightly. You are missing the point badly.

Rather, the MIC is a powerful, controlling entity, all as more specifically and accurately described by then President Dwight D. Eisenhower on January 17, 1961, in his farewell address to the nation, just prior to the inauguration of President John F. Kennedy:

You can watch the address at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

and at:

www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5407.htm


Although he did not 'invent' the term MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX (MIC), President (and former General of the Army) Dwight D. Eisenhower used the term as follows:

"A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction... This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence — economic, political, even spiritual — is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together."

President Dwight D. Eisenhower (R) term 1953-1961

For as relevant as Eisenhower's statement and warning and admonition was in 1961, by 40 years later, in 2001, its full implications became oh so brutally apparent.

Eisenhower's MIC admonition should be required knowledge for every 5th Grader and learned by rote memory and practiced in speech classes in Middle Schools all over the USA.

It is that important. Accordingly, Tsig, your joking about the matter is unfortunate and utterly inappropriate. You are not yet another apologist for the MIC, or SAIC or ARA, are you?

If you are not, then stop acting like one, please.

Do you get it now?

 

[jammonius]

Nope. The government tends to label things they've approved for public release with "Approved for Public Release".

You don't get it. The MIC is showing you what they want you to know about weapons that are horrifically destructive.

The degree of resistance to facing up to the dangers of the MIC, as evidenced by yours and other posts, is astonishing. Small wonder, then, that the MIC has such an easy time in manipulating public opinion.

sheesh

 

[Andy_Ross]

I would still like to know how these 'DEW' weapons work. Jamms seems to have knowledge he isn't sharing with us. He must have otherwise he is making all this conspiracy stuff up out of wholecloth.

 

[TJM]

That shadowy blobby thing is not President Eisenhower.

 

[DGM]

You don't get it. The MIC is showing you what they want you to know about weapons that are horrifically destructive.

The degree of resistance to facing up to the dangers of the MIC, as evidenced by yours and other posts, is astonishing. Small wonder, then, that the MIC has such an easy time in manipulating public opinion.

sheesh

It's sad you don't see how paranoid this is.

 

[Mr. Skinny]

You don't get it. The MIC is showing you what they want you to know about weapons that are horrifically destructive.

The degree of resistance to facing up to the dangers of the MIC, as evidenced by yours and other posts, is astonishing. Small wonder, then, that the MIC has such an easy time in manipulating public opinion.

sheesh

I have no fear of the MIC, for I am part of the MIC, and we're coming to get you! Muahahahaha!

 

[jammonius]

I have no fear of the MIC, for I am part of the MIC, and we're coming to get you! Muahahahaha!

Thank you for disclosing that you are "part of the MIC." What part? For whom do you work, in what capacity and for how long, pray tell?

Thanks in advance

 

[jammonius]

It's sad you don't see how paranoid this is.

The "this" is based on a clear, specific admonition from a US president who, prior to 8 years as president was one of only a very few individuals who attained the rank of 5-star general (there are no such at present), and who was not ever known for being either shrill or paranoid.

Your declaration of paranoia not only has no rational basis, it is the opposite of what reason demands.

Do better, a lot better

 

[jammonius]

I would still like to know how these 'DEW' weapons work.

There exists in this thread adequate information, links and sources for you to find your answers to your questions. You must do this on your own, as in most quests for knowledge.

Based upon your prior posts, your seeming desire to know about DEW is,k in fact, a sham. You actually DO NOT want to know about DEW; and, instead, prefer to think they are a)nonexistent; and, with even greater fervor, b) were not a causal factor in the destruction rendered on 9/11 (they were).

Jamms seems to have knowledge he isn't sharing with us.

I just shared with you a visual display of DEW and an eyewitness from 9/11.

He must have otherwise he is making all this conspiracy stuff up out of wholecloth.

Actually, in quoting what actual witnesses actually said, and being one of only a few posters in this thread who have done that with respect to DEW (having quoted a spokesperson from the Directed Energy Directorate and having quoted a 9/11 eyewitness -- Patricia Ondrovic) I have very specifically engaged in factual posting, totally apart from any rational claim of either conspiracy or of making stuff up.

However, that said, I'll bet you firmly "believe" that I am making stuff up. I will grant you that you probably believe that. However, as we know, people around here choose to believe things that are contrary to what is actually posted; and, I don't question in the least what you believe. Instead, you may choose to believe whatever you want to believe for as long as you can believe it.

My one wish for you is that you give rational reason a try for a change.

Try it, you might (but probably won't) like it.

 

[tsig]

Tsig,

Oh boy, you are not getting it at all.

The MIC is more than just a bogeyman and certainly not something to ridicule or take lightly. You are missing the point badly.

Rather, the MIC is a powerful, controlling entity, all as more specifically and accurately described by then President Dwight D. Eisenhower on January 17, 1961, in his farewell address to the nation, just prior to the inauguration of President John F. Kennedy:

[qimg]http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/album3/eisenhowermicpic.jpg?t=1283710811[/qimg]

You can watch the address at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

and at:

www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5407.htm


Although he did not 'invent' the term MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX (MIC), President (and former General of the Army) Dwight D. Eisenhower used the term as follows:

"A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction... This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence — economic, political, even spiritual — is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together."

[qimg]http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/album3/th_Eisenhower_in_the_Oval_Office.jpg?t=1283711076[/qimg]
President Dwight D. Eisenhower (R) term 1953-1961

For as relevant as Eisenhower's statement and warning and admonition was in 1961, by 40 years later, in 2001, its full implications became oh so brutally apparent.

Eisenhower's MIC admonition should be required knowledge for every 5th Grader and learned by rote memory and practiced in speech classes in Middle Schools all over the USA.

It is that important. Accordingly, Tsig, your joking about the matter is unfortunate and utterly inappropriate. You are not yet another apologist for the MIC, or SAIC or ARA, are you?

If you are not, then stop acting like one, please.

Do you get it now?

Why did you think I was joking? The MIC seem to have the same characteristics as the boogeyman.

The bogeyman has no specific appearance and conceptions of the monster can vary drastically




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogeyman

 

[BigAl]

There exists in this thread adequate information, links and sources for you to find your answers to your questions. You must do this on your own, as in most quests for knowledge.

DEW works, as of 2009 it can punch holes in sheetmetal in seconds.

 

[Mr. Skinny]

Thank you for disclosing that you are "part of the MIC." What part? For whom do you work, in what capacity and for how long, pray tell?

Thanks in advance

I'm a Safety Engineer working for the Air Force and have worked in that capacity for 25+ years. I've never made a secret of that information on this forum.

I'm not sure how knowing that advances your evidence free theories about DEW, holograms, and other nonsense, but what the hell...you did ask nicely.

Never forget that the MIC is watching you though. See that black sedan parked down the road? Yep, it's the MIC monitoring your every move.