Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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But Sir William M. Ramsay's assertion is based on historical evidence. For example let's look at some of Luke's writings.

From the article "I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist"
by Frank Turek Chapter 10

Luke accurately records:

1. the natural crossing between correctly named ports (Acts 13:4-5)

2. the proper port (Perga) along the direct destination of a ship crossing from Cyprus (13:13)

3. the proper location of Lycaonia (14:6)

4. the unusual but correct declension of the name Lystra (14:6)

5. the correct language spoken in LystraCLycaonian (14:11)

6. two gods known to be so associatedCZeus and Hermes (14:12)

7. the proper port, Attalia, which returning travelers would use (14:25)

8. the correct order of approach to Derbe and then Lystra from the Cilician Gates (16:1; cf. 15:41)

9. the proper form of the name Troas (16:8)

10. the place of a conspicuous sailors' landmark, Samothrace (16:11)

11. the proper description of Philippi as a Roman colony (16:12)

12. the right location for the river (Gangites) near Philippi (16:13)

13. the proper association of Thyatira as a center of dyeing (16:14)

14. correct designations for the magistrates of the colony (16:22)

15. the proper locations (Amphipolis and Apollonia) where travelers would spend successive nights on this journey (17:1)

16. the presence of a synagogue in Thessalonica (17:1)

17. the proper term (Apolitarchs') used of the magistrates there (17:6)

18. the correct implication that sea travel is the most convenient way of reaching Athens, with the favoring east winds of summer sailing (17:14-15)

19. the abundant presence of images in Athens (17:16)

20. the reference to a synagogue in Athens (17:17)

There are 64 more such detailed facts written by Luke on this link, scroll down about a quarter of the way to see them.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=51643

James Cameron's screenplay for the film 'Titanic' accurately records the following:
(in no particular order, just as I remembered them)

1) The correct date and time of the sinking is used

2) The RMS Titanic is seen departing from Southampton, just as the real ship did

3) The actual route the Titanic took on the crossing is portrayed

4) Edward John Smith captained the real Titanic

5) Interior scenes from the film match the recorded interior of the real ship

6) J Bruce Ismay was the managing director of White Star Line, and was on board

7) The survivors were picked up by RMS Carpathia

8) SS Californian did not respond to Titanic's distress signals (this was cut from the film but is in the original screenplay)

9) Thomas Andrews designed the Titanic, and was on board

10) First Officer Murdoch gave the order "hard-a-starboard" to instruct the ship to turn to port, as actually happened on 14th/15th April 1912

11) Isidor Straus, owner of Macy's, was on board, as were Colonel John Jacob Astor and Benjamin Guggenheim.

12) The ship hit an iceberg

13) and sank

14) There were insufficient lifeboats (although there were more than legally required)

15) More men than women died, due to "women and children first"

16) More first class passengers were saved than in other classes

17) Gunshots were fired to prevent the lifeboats being overfilled with panicking passengers

18) Wallace Hartley was the real bandleader on the ship

19) Fifth Officer Harold Lowe rowed his lifeboat back to the sinking ship to rescue passengers in the water

20) Jack Phillips was the senior radio operator

I can easily do you another 64 facts, as you point out in your list above.

The most important point in all this is that Jack Dawson and Rose deWitt Bukater never existed. They weren't on board the real Titanic, their whole story is fiction. But it's fiction set against a backdrop of real events, real places and real people. Just like the NT.
 
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Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.....

DOC - how about an answer about the multiple deaths of the so-called martyrs?

You see - I'm curious about how several of them emulated their "Saviour" by coming back to life - in some cases, more than once.... :)

Oh - and have you a contact for the logic course you attended, only I'm having problems?

You see I can't get my head around the "fact" that because the author was apparently a well-travelled man, this somehow is evidence that the gospel writers wrote the truth?

Surely the accuracy of the travelogue is only evidence for the accuracy of the travelogue?

Mind you, I'm really, really hoping for your clarification about the martyrs.......


Thank you.....
 
But Sir William M. Ramsay's assertion is based on historical evidence. For example let's look at some of Luke's writings.

From the article "I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist"
by Frank Turek Chapter 10

Luke accurately records:

1. the natural crossing between correctly named ports (Acts 13:4-5)

2. the proper port (Perga) along the direct destination of a ship crossing from Cyprus (13:13)

3. the proper location of Lycaonia (14:6)

4. the unusual but correct declension of the name Lystra (14:6)

5. the correct language spoken in LystraCLycaonian (14:11)

6. two gods known to be so associatedCZeus and Hermes (14:12)

7. the proper port, Attalia, which returning travelers would use (14:25)

8. the correct order of approach to Derbe and then Lystra from the Cilician Gates (16:1; cf. 15:41)

9. the proper form of the name Troas (16:8)

10. the place of a conspicuous sailors' landmark, Samothrace (16:11)

11. the proper description of Philippi as a Roman colony (16:12)

12. the right location for the river (Gangites) near Philippi (16:13)

13. the proper association of Thyatira as a center of dyeing (16:14)

14. correct designations for the magistrates of the colony (16:22)

15. the proper locations (Amphipolis and Apollonia) where travelers would spend successive nights on this journey (17:1)

16. the presence of a synagogue in Thessalonica (17:1)

17. the proper term (Apolitarchs') used of the magistrates there (17:6)

18. the correct implication that sea travel is the most convenient way of reaching Athens, with the favoring east winds of summer sailing (17:14-15)

19. the abundant presence of images in Athens (17:16)

20. the reference to a synagogue in Athens (17:17)

There are 64 more such detailed facts written by Luke on this link, scroll down about a quarter of the way to see them.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=51643

So what? Every single piece of fiction I've ever written contained geographical and historical accuracies. Makes it, I don't know, more believable. What evidence do you have that corroborates the alleged supernatural events surrounding the alleged life of a man named Jesus Christ?

Evidence, not apologetics from the likes of Turek or Craig.
 
But Sir William M. Ramsay's assertion is based on historical evidence. For example let's look at some of Luke's writings.

From the article "I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist"
by Frank Turek Chapter 10

Luke accurately records:

1. the natural crossing between correctly named ports (Acts 13:4-5)

2. the proper port (Perga) along the direct destination of a ship crossing from Cyprus (13:13)

3. the proper location of Lycaonia (14:6)

4. the unusual but correct declension of the name Lystra (14:6)

5. the correct language spoken in LystraCLycaonian (14:11)

6. two gods known to be so associatedCZeus and Hermes (14:12)

7. the proper port, Attalia, which returning travelers would use (14:25)

8. the correct order of approach to Derbe and then Lystra from the Cilician Gates (16:1; cf. 15:41)

9. the proper form of the name Troas (16:8)

10. the place of a conspicuous sailors' landmark, Samothrace (16:11)

11. the proper description of Philippi as a Roman colony (16:12)

12. the right location for the river (Gangites) near Philippi (16:13)

13. the proper association of Thyatira as a center of dyeing (16:14)

14. correct designations for the magistrates of the colony (16:22)

15. the proper locations (Amphipolis and Apollonia) where travelers would spend successive nights on this journey (17:1)

16. the presence of a synagogue in Thessalonica (17:1)

17. the proper term (Apolitarchs') used of the magistrates there (17:6)

18. the correct implication that sea travel is the most convenient way of reaching Athens, with the favoring east winds of summer sailing (17:14-15)

19. the abundant presence of images in Athens (17:16)

20. the reference to a synagogue in Athens (17:17)

There are 64 more such detailed facts written by Luke on this link, scroll down about a quarter of the way to see them.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=51643

I think a lot of people when they respond to the post above are just focusing on the geography facts the authors got right, but there is also a lot of analyzation of those facts that is important too. For example here is some analyzation of the highly detailed things Gospel writer John wrote.

From the article "I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist"
by Frank Turek Chapter 10:


2. Given the early Christian tendency towards asceticism, the wine miracle is an unlikely invention (2:8).

8. Jesus' own testimony being invalid without the Father is an unlikely Christian invention (5:31); a later redactor would be eager to highlight Jesus= divinity and would probably make his witness self-authenticating.

11.Christ's command to eat his flesh and drink his blood would not be made up (6:53).

12. The rejection of Jesus by many of his disciples is also an unlikely invention (6:66).

13. The two predominant opinions of Jesus, one that Jesus was a Agood man@ and the other that he Adeceives people,@ would not be the two choices John would have made up (7:12); a later Christian writer would have probably inserted the opinion that Jesus was God.

14. The charge of Jesus being demon-possessed is an unlikely invention (7:20).

16. Jewish believers wanting to stone Jesus is an unlikely invention (8:31, 59).

18. Expulsion from the synagogue by the Pharisees was a legitimate fear of the Jews; notice that the healed man professes his faith in Jesus only after he is expelled from the synagogue by the Pharisees (9:13-39), at which point he has nothing to lose. This rings of authenticity.

19. The healed man calling Jesus a Aprophet@ rather than anything more lofty suggests the incident is unembellished history (9:17).

22. Given the later animosity between Christians and Jews, the positive depiction of Jews comforting Martha and Mary is an unlikely invention (11:19).

23. The burial wrappings of Lazarus were common for first-_century Jewish burials (11:44); it is unlikely that a fiction writer would have included this theologically irrelevant detail.

28. Anointing of a guest=s feet with perfume or oil was sometimes performed for special guests in the Jewish culture (12:3); Mary=s wiping of Jesus= feet with her hair is an unlikely invention (it easily could have been perceived as a sexual advance).

30. Foot washing in first-century Palestine was necessary because of dust and open footwear; Jesus performing this menial task is an unlikely invention (it was a task not even Jewish slaves were required to do) (13:4); Peter=s insistence that he get a complete bath also fits with his impulsive personality (there=s certainly no purpose for inventing this request).

31. Peter asks John to ask Jesus a question (13:24); there=s no reason to insert this detail if this is fiction; Peter could have asked Jesus himself.

32. "The Father is greater than I" is an unlikely invention (14:28), especially if John wanted to make up the deity of Christ (as the critics claim he did).

36. Jesus' admission that he has gotten his words from the Father (17:7-8) would not be included if John were inventing the idea that Christ was God.

38. The name of the high priest=s servant (Malchus), who had his ear cut off, is an unlikely invention (18:10).

54. Mary mistaking Jesus for the gardener (20:15) is not a detail that a later writer would have made up (especially a writer seeking to exalt Jesus).

58. The fear of the disciples to ask Jesus who he was (21:12) is an unlikely concoction; it demonstrates natural human amazement at the risen Jesus and perhaps the fact that there was something different about the resurrection body.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=51643

Notice all the times the term unlikely invention is used in the examples above.
 
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I think a lot of people when they respond are just focusing on the geography facts the authors got right, but there is also some analyzation of those facts that are important too. For example here is some analyzation of the things Gospel writer John got right.

From the same cited link above:

2. Given the early Christian tendency towards asceticism, the wine miracle is an unlikely invention (2:8).

8. Jesus' own testimony being invalid without the Father is an unlikely Christian invention (5:31); a later redactor would be eager to highlight Jesus= divinity and would probably make his witness self-authenticating.

11.Christ's command to eat his flesh and drink his blood would not be made up (6:53).

12. The rejection of Jesus by many of his disciples is also an unlikely invention (6:66).

13. The two predominant opinions of Jesus, one that Jesus was a Agood man@ and the other that he Adeceives people,@ would not be the two choices John would have made up (7:12); a later Christian writer would have probably inserted the opinion that Jesus was God.

14. The charge of Jesus being demon-possessed is an unlikely invention (7:20).

16. Jewish believers wanting to stone Jesus is an unlikely invention (8:31, 59).

18. Expulsion from the synagogue by the Pharisees was a legitimate fear of the Jews; notice that the healed man professes his faith in Jesus only after he is expelled from the synagogue by the Pharisees (9:13-39), at which point he has nothing to lose. This rings of authenticity.

19. The healed man calling Jesus a Aprophet@ rather than anything more lofty suggests the incident is unembellished history (9:17).

22. Given the later animosity between Christians and Jews, the positive depiction of Jews comforting Martha and Mary is an unlikely invention (11:19).

23. The burial wrappings of Lazarus were common for first-_century Jewish burials (11:44); it is unlikely that a fiction writer would have included this theologically irrelevant detail.

28. Anointing of a guest=s feet with perfume or oil was sometimes performed for special guests in the Jewish culture (12:3); Mary=s wiping of Jesus= feet with her hair is an unlikely invention (it easily could have been perceived as a sexual advance).

30. Foot washing in first-century Palestine was necessary because of dust and open footwear; Jesus performing this menial task is an unlikely invention (it was a task not even Jewish slaves were required to do) (13:4); Peter=s insistence that he get a complete bath also fits with his impulsive personality (there=s certainly no purpose for inventing this request).

31. Peter asks John to ask Jesus a question (13:24); there=s no reason to insert this detail if this is fiction; Peter could have asked Jesus himself.

32. "The Father is greater than I" is an unlikely invention (14:28), especially if John wanted to make up the deity of Christ (as the critics claim he did).

36. Jesus' admission that he has gotten his words from the Father (17:7-8) would not be included if John were inventing the idea that Christ was God.

38. The name of the high priest=s servant (Malchus), who had his ear cut off, is an unlikely invention (18:10).

42. Identification of a relative of Malchus (the high priest's servant who had his ear cut off) is a detail that John would not have made up (18:26); it has no theological significance and could only hurt John's credibility if he were trying to pass off fiction as the truth.

54. Mary mistaking Jesus for the gardener (20:15) is not a detail that a later writer would have made up (especially a writer seeking to exalt Jesus).

58. The fear of the disciples to ask Jesus who he was (21:12) is an unlikely concoction; it demonstrates natural human amazement at the risen Jesus and perhaps the fact that there was something different about the resurrection body.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=51643

Notice all the times the term unlikely invention is used in the examples above.

Have you given up all pretence of discussion now, responding your own posts, and ignoring the actual replies to them?
 
doc's whole post is pretty pointless, but this jumped out at me:

The name of the high priest=s servant (Malchus), who had his ear cut off, is an unlikely invention

and I just have to ask, why? And even if it was an "unlikely invention," so what? What does that prove?
 
I think a lot of people when they respond are just focusing on the geography facts the authors got right, but there is also a lot of analyzation of those facts that is important too. For example here is some analyzation of the highly detailed things Gospel writer John wrote.

<snip>


What the hell is this new nonsense, DOC?

As if it weren't bad enough that you find yourself reduced to responding to your own posts, you can't even do that right. The rubbish you've posted above is non sequitur even to your own argument, so there's absolutely no chance it's going to relate to anything that anyone else has posted.

Your posts appear to be taking on the same kind of internal consistency that we find in your big book of fairytales.

Quelle surprise.
 
My argument about the "analyzation of those facts" is new and has not even been responded to.

It has been responded to, but clearly you need things spelt out. It's just one long argument from incredulity, no facts whatsoever, and certainly nothing from outside the bible. And also largely irrelevant; only a handful address the supernatural parts of the New Testament. As you've been told before, many people (for example, Thomas Jefferson, as well as some here) are happy to believe there may have been an itinerant preacher and troublemaker with a name similar to Jesus. It's the parts about him being the son of God that we doubt, and for which there is no evidence (as Jefferson and Ramsay, to name two, agree).
 
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