Charles Norrie's Lockerbie theory

What's a PM Rolfe. You have my email at norriecb [at] gmail [dot] com, if you want to get in touch with me.


This forum allows members to send and receive Private Messages as well as posting messages in the public forum. If you didn't get the notification that you had a private message from me, simply find your private message box (under the "User CP" menu at the top among other places) and you'll be able to read it.

I told you I have no intention of emailing you.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe, once again you are being very silly, but at least you have removed the laughing dog.

Argument by animated character (a new one to me) is beneath contempt.

It is for you to deal with your libels. I wrote my piece so that it did not libel anyone, except HW Bush and he, as my solicitor explained would not sue for fear of dignifying my argument.

If anyone here has a PhD, they haven't demonstrated it. And a PhD is not a proof that someone can think. There are actually some rather dim doctors out there
 
I didn't do anything about the laughing dog. I try to restrain myself with that one, but if you're missing him, here he is again.

:dl:

Rolfe.
 
The aircraft was depressurised in about 1/10 second.
Wrong. The aircraft could not have been depressurised in that amount of time through even a largish hole. It could have started to be depressurised and leaking air rapidly, but not that fast.

Let's check the maths: A 747 is a tube roughly 60m long by 6m diameter. Basic maths gives is 9 * pi * 60 = 1,700 cubic meters of air, approximately as the volume of the aircraft. That has to go through a hole 20 x 20 inches = 0.25 square meters. So we need to get 1700 cubic meters through a 0.25 meter square hole. Again, maths says that is a tube 0.25 sqm x 6,800 meters long. So for that tube to travel its complete length in 0.1 of a second means it is doing 68,000 meters per second, or just over 150,000 mph.

Do you agree?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747#Specifications
 
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No explosive residues are found in the tail structure, this completely rules out a 2nd explosion in the tail area.

Aside from the area around the first IED no explosion damage was detected anywhere else in the aircraft.


Apart from that your summary is fairly accurate but not noteworthy.


By the way, Charles, noteworthy = notable. You're familiar with the concept of synonyms?

So, you accept that there were no explosive residues in the tail, and no explosion damage other than at the position of AVE4041?

I suspect you don't though. Sigh.

Rolfe.
 
I shall repeat my claim about libel Rolfe. You're the one doing it, not me. I actually saw that Hugh Tomlinson QC this morning.

I don't believe "libel" means what you think it means...

Libel: a false and malicious publication printed for the purpose of defaming a living person

That aside, are you going to answer my questions? Or just hope I go away?
 
No I don't Zep. And you can work out for yourself why your argument is wrong.

Please start at looking at my top down reasoning. Who wanted revenge for IR-655
 
Dear sbretooth,

It was i who took the advice of a leading English libel lawyer, not you. I really don't care what your definition of libel is: it's that of the English courts.
 
All the passengers and luggage were inside the pressure hold. When a hole was blown in that all the air blew out.

You are correct, the cargo hold is pressurised and depressurisation begins as soon as there is a breach in the hull. It does take a long time however for this to happen relative to the length of time it took the blast wave from the IED to blast the much larger starburst hole in the front of the aircraft.

Both explosions were caused by brisant explosives. To make sure that there was no difficulty in analysing the residues, Semtex was I suggest used in both explosions.

Again I ask, how do you come to the conclusion that there were 2 explosive devices aboard PA103? What qualifies you to seperate statements of fact from written padding in the AAIB report?

RARDE did all the explosives work. AAIB refused to handle it, I conclude.

AAIB are an air accident investigation facility. RARDE was an explosives R&D laboratory.

I disagree with you when you say there was no damage other than the IED explosion.

Ambrosia said:
Aside from the area around the first IED no explosion damage was detected anywhere else in the aircraft.

The debris trials were a consequence of the aircraft disintegrating as it fell. Read the summary I just posted.

IED explodes - 2-3 seconds later the front of the fuselage detaches and takes with it 1 engine. The remainder of the aircraft falls relatively intact for 12000' and then the tail section detaches, now falling almost vertically and spinning the remaining debris breaks apart.

Plane starts flying level at 31000' 434Knots airpseed. IED explodes plane is pitched into a 45degree angle of descent, contents of the plane, and debris from the explosion make up one debris trail. The plane descends ever more vertically as it falls to 19000' when the next major breakup occurs. All of the wreckage from here on out falls almost vertically to earth, hence shorter more densely populated debris trail.

There was more than enough force acting on the airframe as it descended for it to be torn apart without the need for a 2nd bomb as my summary of the breakup is meant to illustrate.

How can you be sure there was a 2nd bomb? How on earth do bombers ensure a second bomb would even detonate with all the likely destruction that will occur in the plane once the first device explodes? Why on earth plant 2 bombs if you can't guarantee both will explode and risk having an unexploded bomb, that is traceable to you, fall to earth into the clutches of air accident investigators??

It makes no sense at all.
 
Rolfe,

Why do you think I don't know what a synonym means. I dis all that in a classic English edcation at the age of 12, and can distinguish between a synonym and a metaphor. Why don't yo get intelligent about my contribution, or do you work for the CIA?
 
Once again, Ambrosia, you are wrong. The bit of RARDE we are interested in is the forensic research laboratory situated within an explosives factory. Why, I don't know and long have speculated. Again, Ambrosia, look at the debris diagram which shows two distinct trails in the AAIB report. An engine detaching would not cause a debris trail.

I have explained exactly how the second device was detonated; that using radar the perpetrator of the second explosion, learned about the first and triggered it.

I can't prove it, because those who triggered the second explosion have not talked about it. But if you think about what I am saying it is perfectly credible, and nothing said here yet has nay-sayed me.

You are getting rather boring.
 
Gapping hole, Sabre. have told you what I can prove and cannot, and the bits I cannot for obvious reasons. I'm not going to read your rather obvious and dim comments, and that does not prove you are right!
 
No I don't Zep. And you can work out for yourself why your argument is wrong.
OK, show us apparent ignoramuses why. I have given you some clear mathematics using your own facts. If the calculations are wrong, refute them now. Or else they stand as the consequences of your own arguments.

Please start at looking at my top down reasoning. Who wanted revenge for IR-655
Irrelevant to this point, and it doesn't change the facts.
 
Once again, Ambrosia, you are wrong. The bit of RARDE we are interested in is the forensic research laboratory situated within an explosives factory.

AAIB = Air Accident Investigation

RARDE = Explosvies R&D laboratory.

RARDE have expertise and a forensic research facilty to do with explosives. Items identified with possible damage caused by explosives were sent for testing to the people with the specific expertise in explosives.

What is hard to understand?

An engine detaching would not cause a debris trail.

I don't say that it would, I do strongly suspect that the front of an aircraft detaching and the contents of the aircraft being blown out of the huge hole in the front of the aircraft, as well as debris caused by an explosion that ripped the front of the fuselage to pieces, will most certainy cause a debris trail.

Furthermore a debris trail that will fall in a different area given the different speeds and direction it is falling in and height it is falling from, than debris from a later breakup when the aircraft is falling at a much steeper angle.

I have explained exactly how the second device was detonated

I don't care how the 2nd device was detonated. You have yet to convince me there was a 2nd device at all. First we establish there was a 2nd bomb and then after that we look into how it might have been detonated.

How do you know there was a 2nd bomb?

Please answer this simple question.
 
You go on about the explosion almost ricocheting through the aircraft, but what is propagating it. The aircraft was depressurised in about 1/10 second. And what cause the second trail?

Would you mind elaborating on this statement and question?

The fact that the aircraft depressurized in less than a second has nothing to with propogating the reflection of the shockwave after the explosion.

In another words, depressurization would not inhibit the reflection of the shockwave.

And where did the 1/10 of a second come from? Didn't AAIB say 3 seconds?
 
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Dear sbretooth,

It was i who took the advice of a leading English libel lawyer, not you. I really don't care what your definition of libel is: it's that of the English courts.

Um...it's not my definition, Charles...that is the English dictionary definition...

You boasted of your mastery of the English language in this very thread...surely you know the definition of this rather simple word?
 
Ambrosia, where did the second, northerly debris trail come from. It comes not from simply disintegration. It must have been an explosion. Sabre, your worthless comments are noted, and rejected.
 

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