Insane Clown Posse's song about 'Miracles' called worst song ever

[Questioninggeller]

It's no wonder the magazine went under if they were employing journalists with no journalistic skills. There is no supported original content in the that entire article. Obviously the present circumstances don't afford him the opportunity to travel and attend the concerts or meet the bands he's critiquing, but that's no excuse for lazy journalism.

Many writers base articles on secondary material to make points. In fact, writers must if they want to discuss the sum of several events. Your criticism of the magazine and the writer appears not to be backed by any evidence, but rather out of anger that a writer criticized ICP, a band you are trying so hard to defense in two different threads, including the other where you justify assault to
defend ICP and their fans by saying this about the woman who was assaulted ... regarding ICP fans throwing stones and human waste at Tila Tequila while performing at an ICP "gathering."

Were you thinking about this when you had to bring up Plan B magazine? Or were you deliberately being ironic?

If my correction of your misinformation is a derail than means your original misinformation is a derail. Do you really not understand that?

You called him a blogger in order to dismiss his statement. I showed he is not "a blogger," but an experienced professional music writer. You called the latter, not the former a derail. If his position is a derail then you derailed, and I corrected the facts in your derail.

 

[bozman]

It never ceases to amaze me how long standing members of any given forum can end up taking a thread subject personally and resort to outright trolling, or at least troll tactics.

 

[Dimitri]

Funny, 10 pages on pointless bickering about musical taste.
Might I add a few simple words :

"de gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum"
"suum cuique"

Yes rolling stone Magazine might have called it "the worst song ever" and other writers might have called the whole band "crap". But since when is personal taste tossed aside and curiosity numbed down when so-called authorative sources start to dictate what kind of tastes a person should have?
I quite liked ICP's "If I were a serial killer". And there are a few other songs worth mentioning. And in my honest opinion, they are much better then the waste 50 cent or other hip-hoppers and RnB-rapists tend to produce...

Perhaps it is time to lay off to some here, both parties are right and wrong.

 

[Questioninggeller]

Funny, 10 pages on pointless bickering about musical taste.

That's not the issue. As summarized above:

The debate is between people who take their anti-intellectualism at face value, based on reams of clear evidence and the actions of the overwhelming majority of their fanbase; and people who claim that their anti-intellectualism is satirical and they're actually promoting education in some weird, twisted, completely invisible way. Duty doesn't enter into it.

Also related is this thread where an ICP fan justifies Tila Tequila getting assault at an ICP event.

 

[Furcifer]

Unless someone is actually advocating censorship, there is no reason to bring the first amendment into this.

Actually the First Amendment is about more than just censorship.

 

[Furcifer]

Funny, 10 pages on pointless bickering about musical taste.
Might I add a few simple words :

"de gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum"
"suum cuique"

Yes rolling stone Magazine might have called it "the worst song ever" and other writers might have called the whole band "crap". But since when is personal taste tossed aside and curiosity numbed down when so-called authorative sources start to dictate what kind of tastes a person should have?
I quite liked ICP's "If I were a serial killer". And there are a few other songs worth mentioning. And in my honest opinion, they are much better then the waste 50 cent or other hip-hoppers and RnB-rapists tend to produce...

Perhaps it is time to lay off to some here, both parties are right and wrong.

I don't disagree with you here but there is the issue of "Juggalo Holocaust"
http://juggaloholocaust.wordpress.com/

These people are organizing a hate campaign, encouraging people to randomly punch "Juggalos" on Halloween. They also encourage violence against "Juggalos" in general and people has been assaulted. This is where the rumour of Tila Tequila's assault first surfaced.

It important to point out the majority of fans don't advocate violence, they're just there to see a concert. This hate fueled counter movement doesn't distinguish between the good and the bad.

 

[Dimitri]

That's not the issue. As summarized above:



Also related is this thread where an ICP fan justifies Tila Tequila getting assault at an ICP event.

Then again, what's the use of nagging about it?
Too bad for Tila of being punched in the face, stupid guys who made the offense. I somewhat fail to see the point being in adressing it in a general skeptisism board. What is the use since actually almost anyone here spews their emotional vomit..
The statement of tastes still stand for the reason almost anyone can have a different opinion about. Be it with or without referring to others. Individual thinking anyone?

 

[Dimitri]

I don't disagree with you here but there is the issue of "Juggalo Holocaust"
http://juggaloholocaust.wordpress.com/

These people are organizing a hate campaign, encouraging people to randomly punch "Juggalos" on Halloween. They also encourage violence against "Juggalos" in general and people has been assaulted. This is where the rumour of Tila Tequila's assault first surfaced.

It important to point out the majority of fans don't advocate violence, they're just there to see a concert. This hate fueled counter movement doesn't distinguish between the good and the bad.

Oh great, so there is a "holocaust" going on. I think average violence is being a bit overblown by such strong terms. There are proclaimed Nazi-fanatics present during shows of Marilyn Manson, Samael, "insert other metal band"...
Look, people are people and whether they belong towards some sub-culture or not, they'll do stupid things. There are all-peace-loving xians who simply punch non-believers in the face, there are muslims who hang out in gangs and rob and don't shun violence etc etc. Tell me where these suckers are different? And do tell me why they need more and special attention?

 

[Furcifer]

Many writers base articles on secondary material to make points. In fact, writers must if they want to discuss the sum of several events. Your criticism of the magazine and the writer appears not to be backed by any evidence, but rather out of anger that a writer criticized ICP, a band you are trying so hard to defense in two different threads, including the other where you justify assault to
defend ICP and their fans by saying this about the woman who was assaulted ... regarding ICP fans throwing stones and human waste at Tila Tequila while performing at an ICP "gathering."

Another fallacy. Nobody ever tried to justify the assault. You are lying, because I quite clearly indicated this several times.

If my correction of your misinformation is a derail than means your original misinformation is a derail. Do you really not understand that?

You called him a blogger in order to dismiss his statement. I showed he is not "a blogger," but an experienced professional music writer. You called the latter, not the former a derail. If his position is a derail then you derailed, and I corrected the facts in your derail.

Double standard. I showed you how ICP's entire body of work is based on a persona and you chose to chastise me for not keeping to the OP which was "Miracles". Now this bloggers past is somehow relevant to the OP.

I dismissed his opinion because the article was of poor journalistic quality. He has no firsthand knowledge to offer and merely recycles other people's work. Not because he IS a blogger.

 

[Furcifer]

Oh great, so there is a "holocaust" going on. I think average violence is being a bit overblown by such strong terms. There are proclaimed Nazi-fanatics present during shows of Marilyn Manson, Samael, "insert other metal band"...
Look, people are people and whether they belong towards some sub-culture or not, they'll do stupid things. There are all-peace-loving xians who simply punch non-believers in the face, there are muslims who hang out in gangs and rob and don't shun violence etc etc. Tell me where these suckers are different? And do tell me why they need more and special attention?

I think you may have misread this. "Juggalo Holocaust" isn't what's going on, it's the name of a hate group like the KKK. It's a gang.

Many of the newspapers, like the LA Times reported the messages about the attack on Tila Tequila were posted on an anti-Juggalo website. I find that odd because they deliberately refused to publish the actual name of the website.

People on this forum have advocated violence against a group of kids called "Juggalos" as well. It's stupid and dangerous and completely outside the bounds of the usual rational thought I've seen expressed on this forum.

 

[Questioninggeller]

Then again, what's the use of nagging about it?
Too bad for Tila of being punched in the face, stupid guys who made the offense. I somewhat fail to see the point being in adressing it in a general skeptisism board. What is the use since actually almost anyone here spews their emotional vomit..
The statement of tastes still stand for the reason almost anyone can have a different opinion about. Be it with or without referring to others. Individual thinking anyone?

1) This is a forum where people discuss issues according to the topic of the thread.
2) As in the quote provided, this thread is discussing the stupidity of ICP.
3) It sounds like you don't enjoy these types of discussions, for whatever reason. OK.

Another fallacy. Nobody ever tried to justify the assault. You are lying, because I quite clearly indicated this several times.

You clearly either don't understand the words you write or know what a fallacy is. My post, which I'll quote for you, contained links:

including the other where you justify assault to
defend ICP and their fans by saying this about the woman who was assaulted.

If you click on those links, you will find your own words. Here is one of your entire posts:

Yah but her whoring goes well beyond "attention". I haven't seen any redeeming qualities in her, unless you're into gagging porn. My buddy said her claim to fame was being able to insert her own hand into her vagina, it's called fisting. I don't think she needs the money to survive, last week she was on TMZ buying a Lamborghini.

That doesn't excuse the mob's behaviour, but it does make it humorous. The whole incident is just a string of FAIL.

You wrote that a woman getting hit in the face with stones and human waste by ICP fans was "humorous" given her involvement in "porn." Your words and your defense for anything ICP-related speak for itself.

Or regarding Tila getting hit, an entire post:

Because she's anything but a "comedian". No one condones the violence, it's just mob stupidity. But let's face it it's not like she was Mother Teresa up on stage collecting alms for the poor. It only makes slightly more sense when you realize she's just a freak willing to do anything for money.

I can see a mob turning on Tila Tequila, not on Ellen Degeneress.

Calling a woman a "freak" or claiming she was "doing anything for attention" in no way diminishes a wrong. Those are absolutely disgusting justifications for ICP's fans behavior.

Here's another entire post:

Listen, she isn't the brightest star in the sky, but she was informed of the plan to chase her off stage, ICP told her explicitly. Her Tweets weren't "Boy I did something stupid" it was "I'm going to sue everyone" yada yada.

If you behave "unwisely" to the extent that you decide to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater what happens?

That's just three posts from an eight page thread, where you and only you, blame the victim. There are many more examples of you doing that in the thread.

You calling others liars, in this thread as in the other about the Tila assault, is clearly just projection. I proved above your claims are nonsense.

Double standard. I showed you how ICP's entire body of work is based on a persona and you chose to chastise me for not keeping to the OP which was "Miracles". Now this bloggers past is somehow relevant to the OP.

YOU brought up the issue by incorrectly implying he was a mere "blogger".

 

[Furcifer]

You clearly either don't understand the words you write or know what a fallacy is.
You wrote that a woman getting hit in the face with stones and human waste by ICP fans was "humorous" given her involvement in "porn." Your words and your defense for anything ICP-related speak for itself.

This is yet another fallacy on your part, a failure in reasoning. I never said her getting hit in the face with stones humorous, in fact I said it was disgusting.

Yes, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, you aren't employing fallacy, you are an outright LIAR. You've proven that.

If you can't stop lying to make your point just admit you have nothing and move on. It really is sad.

 

[Furcifer]

Oh and quit hiding in this thread, I opened up another thread to discuss you're ignorance on what "blaming the victim" is.

It's in Social and Current Events.

 

[Questioninggeller]

This is yet another fallacy on your part, a failure in reasoning. I never said her getting hit in the face with stones humorous, in fact I said it was disgusting.

Yes, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, you aren't employing fallacy, you are an outright LIAR. You've proven that.

If you can't stop lying to make your point just admit you have nothing and move on. It really is sad.

Your words on Tila getting assaulted with objects, including stones and human waste:

Yah but her whoring goes well beyond "attention". I haven't seen any redeeming qualities in her, unless you're into gagging porn. My buddy said her claim to fame was being able to insert her own hand into her vagina, it's called fisting. I don't think she needs the money to survive, last week she was on TMZ buying a Lamborghini.

That doesn't excuse the mob's behaviour, but it does make it humorous. The whole incident is just a string of FAIL.

Oh and quit hiding in this thread, I opened up another thread to discuss you're ignorance on what "blaming the victim" is.

It's in Social and Current Events.

No need to start a new thread. Much like ICP, you've gotten way more attention than you deserve. No more.

 

[Furcifer]

Your words on Tila getting assaulted with objects, including stones and human waste:

How can I be hiding if I posted in the Tila thread, post here and the threads get bumped? Much like ICP, you've gotten way more attention than you deserve. No more.

I never said it was humorous she was hit with rocks and assaulted.

You know how to use the quote function, please quote where I said this.

I not going to bother humoring your lie by quoting the posts in which I made it very clear it was disgusting and uncalled for. You know this, that's what makes you a LIAR.

 

[Questioninggeller]

I never said it was humorous she was hit with rocks and assaulted.

You know how to use the quote function, please quote where I said this.

I not going to bother humoring your lie by quoting the posts in which I made it very clear it was disgusting and uncalled for. You know this, that's what makes you a LIAR.

One more time:

That doesn't excuse the mob's behaviour, but it does make it humorous.

What was the mob's behavior?

They "pelted her with rocks and feces during her set."

and you said it here too:

...
I feel sorry for her but not enough to reward her. She's got a couple cuts she took willingly, it's her pride that got hurt.

Violence is no laughing matter, but the incident sure is.

What's not clear?

As for her performance, you said "she thought she could slut her way through it like she does everything else in life."

You are sick.

 

[Furcifer]

As for her performance, you said "she thought she could slut her way through it like she does everything else in life."

You are sick.

lol, this girl takes off her top to appease an unruly crowd of Insane Clowns throwing stuff at her and I'm sick for pointing out how stupid that is?

Wow, you've got a twisted sense of what's right and wrong.

teh stoopid, it burns.

 

[Zanders]

Because contrary to what you are typing deep down you believe in free speech and everyone's First Amendment Rights.

And what does that have to do with anything that I said? Yes, people have the right to be stupid, but they should be well educated enough to avoid it. Your response looks like dodging to me.

 

[Furcifer]

And what does that have to do with anything that I said? Yes, people have the right to be stupid, but they should be well educated enough to avoid it. Your response looks like dodging to me.

By begging the question you are suggesting (your) morals should dictate the content of movies or songs. That would violate the author or directors right to free speech.

If you don't like it, find something else. Apparently it's a big magical world out there

 

[schrodingasdawg]

I actually encounter this sort of argument from new agers all the time. "The first amendment allows me to say what I want, so you can't criticize me." (It's a pretty good paraphrase, though it's obviously not exactly what they say.) The obvious counter is, of course, "The first amendment allows me to criticize what you say, and to even say that you shouldn't be saying it."

3bodyproblem seems to be throwing a straw man into the mix as well. i.e. "You think ICP should know better than to say these things. Therefore, I infer that you want them to be censored by law and I invoke the first amendment against the argument I infer that you're making."

It's a terrible argument that's obviously meant to avoid answering criticism.