Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[welshdean]

round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and still not a single shred of evidence, not one!
Your patience with Doc is astounding.

 

[MRC_Hans]

*snip*

That's a very dangerous thing to say if it wasn't true. It would be like Barack Obama saying over 250 family friends and relatives were able to verify he was born in Hawaii.

We don't even know if he said it, of if it's conjured up later. And you cannot compare to modern times with a free press poised to jump on everything. At the time these things were written, only a few % of the population could read at all, and there was no tradition for objectivity. You could basically get away with anything.

Hans

 

[RoboTimbo]

DOC, so this:

Which specific post that talks of a fallacy do you want me to address the most and I will address it.

was simply another one of your lies? Nice Christian ethics you display there.

 

[Gandalfs Beard]

round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and still not a single shred of evidence, not one!
Your patience with Doc is astounding.

That's what I first thought about this thread too. Then I realized it was just Target Practice, because his arguments are such easy pickings.

GB

 

[carlitos]

I never said there were 19. There were 9 separate writers of NT books. And 40 separate writers of the entire bible. Interesting how it all seems to have a similar theme and come together nicely in spite of having 40 separate writers and being written over many centuries.

Sorry, I could have sworn that you said 19 somewhere. 40 authors of the bible? Interesting claim.

So, Paul, Luke, John, Mark, James, Jude, Peter, Matthew, Silas, Timothy? Is that your 9? What about Q?

Also, you asked for specific references to logical fallacies.

Which specific post that talks of a fallacy do you want me to address the most and I will address it.

Several people responded to you with references. If you ignore those, may we conclude that your request was dishonest, since you weren't going to reply? If not, why did you ask?

one

two

three

four

 

[kmortis]

<snippage>Your patience with Doc is astounding.

You know how you can get a cut on the roof of your mouth? You know damned well that if you leave it alone, it'll heal in a couple of days, but something about it just makes you flick it with your tongue.

This thread is like that.

 

[kmortis]

¹As we have seen, Elizabeth I said, "If Foote did nothing but quote his own book as a source for his historical facts he would very quickly be laughed out of scholarly circles as any sort of serious researcher."

Baseless Claims Quarterly, vol. 23, pg 56.

If you're gonna cite, cite fully.

 

[dafydd]

round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and still not a single shred of evidence, not one!
Your patience with Doc is astounding.

Dydy iawn 'n ddigrif.

 

[zooterkin]

Are we to let Elizabeth I's landmark posting to go unremarked? Or does the son of Ra (-Horus-Aten) from Downunder have something planned?

 

[joobz]

DOC, I think you need to address Post #15000, who Zooterkin (A renowned expert in internet forums) stated is was a landmark post.[/QUOTE]

Clearly such an important post must be much more likely to be true for it to be considered a landmark.

 

[Akhenaten]

Are we to let Elizabeth I's landmark posting to go unremarked? Or does the son of Ra (-Horus-Aten) from Downunder have something planned?

I'd love to do something but I have to admit I'm just a bit flabbergasted at the moment.

DOC is no longer even trying to pretend he's here to discuss anything or present any evidence, it's just one preachy lie after another. Or rather, the same one, endlessly repeated, over and over.

That anyone would expend so much time and effort just to make a complete mockery of his own beliefs is simply breathtaking.

 

[Simon39759]

Simon Greenleaf; died 1858. Do you have have any 'authorities' from the 21st or even 20th century? What do you have against the last 150 years of research and knowledge?

It disagrees with him?

 

[joobz]

Simon Greenleaf; died 1858. Do you have have any 'authorities' from the 21st or even 20th century? What do you have against the last 150 years of research and knowledge?

I think my post addresses why DOC doesn't refer to modern scholarship.

It directly contradicts the argument he is trying to make:

Jerusalem in Bible and archaeology: the First Temple period
Check out this book.
On page 1:

This situation changed dramatically, however, during the last three decades of the twentieth century. Scholars trained specifically as archaeologists dominated archaeological fieldwork in the modern nation-states of the ancient biblical world, and many of their discoveries, the result of a more systematic approach to archaeological fieldwork, raised difficult questions regarding the historicity of biblical texts. At times the results even seemed to contradict events described in the Bible. Whearas the early generation saw some hope in finding an "essential continuity" between the events that were deemed factual and the biblical narratives, the results of recent research have tended to conclude that such continuity is unlikely to emerge.

In other words: The bible ain't a reliable account of history.

Note that this book was written 2003.

 

[kmortis]

DOC, I think you need to address Post #15000, who Zooterkin (A renowned expert in internet forums) stated is was a landmark post.

Clearly such an important post must be much more likely to be true for it to be considered a landmark.

Agreed. If DOC cannot address Sir Zooterkin's, the reknowned internet forum expert, post, one of his almost 560 posts in THIS THREAD ALONE, then I think we're witness to such an appaling lack of credability not seen since 2003. And I think we ALL remember what happened then, don't we?

 

[Simon39759]

Ha yes; the great flame-war of 2003... *Shudder*
Many a posts were taken before their time (once the mods caught up)...

 

[Akhenaten]

Are we to let Elizabeth I's landmark posting to go unremarked? Or does the son of Ra (-Horus-Aten) from Downunder have something planned?

I did, but then Aberhaten came to me in a dream, with this reminder:

So you're going on record then of saying Elizabeth didn't misquote Kunti?

Edited by LibraryLady: 

Edited for civility and for being way off topic.

"The better part of valour is discretion; in the which better part I have saved my life."

- Falstaff​

ETA: Sir John Falstaff, BTW

 

[Elizabeth I]

I did, but then Aberhaten came to me in a dream, with this reminder:

​

"The better part of valour is discretion; in the which better part I have saved my life."

- Falstaff​

ETA: Sir John Falstaff, BTW

Well, that of course means that everything he said is completely true. Also anything he ever thought about saying.

 

[Akhenaten]

I did, but then Aberhaten came to me in a dream, with this reminder:

​

"The better part of valour is discretion; in the which better part I have saved my life."

- Falstaff​

ETA: Sir John Falstaff, BTW

Well, that of course means that everything he said is completely true. Also anything he ever thought about saying.

When a person like Sir John Falstaff (who appears in three plays by William Shakespeare as a companion to Prince Hal, the future King Henry V (whom we know to have existed) and is described by Shakespearean scholar Edmond Malone as beng based on the historical Sir John Fastolf) then we can be in no doubt that he spoke the truth.

Not only this, but as William Shakespeare himself (a founder of the Globe Theatre) said:

For 'tis the sport to have the engineer
Hoist with his own petard, an't shall go hard
But I will delve one yard below their mines
And blow them at the moon.

_________<-- Added truthiness!​

 

[X]

As an engineer I must say that I am appalled!

I would never hoist my own petard!

Well, hardly ever...

(At least, not in public anyways)

 

[A Lurker]

So then people are idiots to buy well known Shelby Foote's 2 volume book on the Civil War because he didn't witness any of the civil war.

And why are you talking about extraordinary claims when I specifically said a "non-supernatural evemt".

The comment on "Shelby Foote Civil War" is also a repeat of a repeat of a repeat comment. Seriously DOC, is there some reason why you are apparently incapable of recognising that you are just constantly repeating the same long discredited claims?

In this particular case, as has been repeated countless times too, we know the Civil War happened because we've got many, many contemporary artefacts that we can exactly date to that time... including the bodies of those killed in the Civil War, and sometimes the bullets that killed them; the signatures and battle plans of the Generals; the ruins they left behind; the biographies of escaped slaves; the history leading up too, and after the War to set it into context; we've even got Abraham Lincoln's hat.

But as for the Bible... well, we've got the Bible. And er... that's about it. But only decades after the events they pertain to describe if you're talking gospels; and only centuries later if we're talking collected-Bible-that-ignores-most-of-those-gospels.