Restoring Honor Rally 8/28

[dudalb]

Sarah Palin is going to run for president in 2012. In the process she'll turn the sad remnants of the Republican party into a suicide cult, but she might just get elected and you can kiss the 230-year-long experiment in representative government goodbye for good."

Considering Kunstler's long list of failed predictions (he was predicting the end of industrial society because of the Y2K bug) we don't have to worry very much about a Palin presidency.
And note Kunstler's open contempt for the American People because they do not fall in line with his ideas. His intellectual snobbery is just as bad as the Beck Palin populism. In fact, I might make the point that the snob who treats the average American with contempt are the best allies that the populists have.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Come again?

You didn't know that?

New ACLU Report Documents Devastating Effects of Post-9/11 Deportations on Immigrant Communities and Families

"The U.S. government unfairly deported thousands of immigrants after the September 11 attacks-simply because they were from Muslim countries and were in the wrong place at the wrong time," said Anthony Romero, Executive Director of the ACLU. "For each man who was arrested, there was a network of children, parents, siblings, neighbors and community members who depended on him."

The report, "Worlds Apart: How Deporting Immigrants After September 11 Tore Families Apart and Shattered Communities," shares the stories of 13 men who filed a complaint with the United Nations Working Group on Arbitrary Detention charging that they were unfairly arrested and imprisoned by the United States. The ACLU said that the men were among hundreds of Muslims who were arbitrarily and indiscriminately arrested even though they had not engaged in criminal activity of any sort. The men languished in jail - sometimes in solitary confinement - for weeks and sometimes months, even after it became clear that they were innocent of any charges related to terrorism.

13,000 Arabs & Muslims in U.S. Face Deportation & John Ashcroft Attempts to Expand Patriot Act

More than 13,000 Arab and Muslim men are facing deportation in what could result in the largest wave of deportations since the Sept. 11 attacks, this according to a report in the New York Times.

Those facing deportation are among the 82,000 men from Arab and Muslim countries who voluntarily registered with immigration officials over the six months.

The Pakistani community has been particularly hard hit. Bobby Khan of the Coney Island Avenue Project told the New York Times that between 40 to 50 percent of the 120,000 Pakistanis who lived in the area before Sept. 11 have since been detained, deported or have left the area.

Officials have acknowledged that almost all of the immigrants who face deportation have no ties to terrorism. So far the government has claimed only 11 of those who registered had links to terror groups.

News of the mass deportations comes just a week after the release of a Justice Department report that concluded authorities violated the civil rights of hundreds of immigrants detained since Sept. 11.

 

[Accidental Martyr]

And?

Ever been to an anti-war protest in the 2000's? Comparisons between Bush and Hitler and Israel with Nazi Germany were rampant, and still are.

I thought we were talking about the Beck rally. The statement was made that there were no Obama/Hitler signs (since the rally was supposed to be non-political, I guess). However, there were "activists distributing pamphlets" that contained the image.

 

[Pardalis]

You didn't know that?

New ACLU Report Documents Devastating Effects of Post-9/11 Deportations on Immigrant Communities and Families

13,000 Arabs & Muslims in U.S. Face Deportation & John Ashcroft Attempts to Expand Patriot Act

I don't believe I have.

Has there been any follow-ups on the ACLU report? It only talks about 13 men.

And the NY Times report speaks of men who were already illegally in America.

more than 13,000 have been found to be living in this country illegally, officials say.[...]

It's not like they deported American citizens. Maybe they should apply for citizenship through legal channels next time.

 

[bynmdsue]

I certainly never saw that back during the Bush years, for all we know the author could have photoshopped it himself.

Doesn't matter when it was done.I'm asking right now,is it racist?

 

[bit_pattern]

Sure it is, but I or one never saw it being paraded around anti-Bush protests in the way that 'obamacare' picture has been by the tea-baggers.

 

[MattusMaximus]

Ever been to an anti-war protest in the 2000's? Comparisons between Bush and Hitler and Israel with Nazi Germany were rampant, and still are.

I attended a few of those back in the day, and this is one reason why I stopped. I couldn't stomach some of the crazy I kept exposing myself to at those events.

Having said that, what I see on the right-wing Tea Party side is a bit more disconcerting to me.

 

[GreNME]

Read a great article today...

I love this sub-title to an article I read today:

Glenn Beck's rally was large, vague, moist, and undirected—the Waterworld of white self-pity.

A quote from the article: "But nobody with any feeling for the zeitgeist can avoid noticing the symptoms of white unease and the additionally uneasy forms that its expression is beginning to take."

Another quote:

Concerns of this kind are not confined to the Tea Party belt. Late professors Arthur Schlesinger and Samuel Huntington both published books expressing misgivings about, respectively, multiculturalism and rapid demographic change. But these were phrased so carefully as almost to avoid starting the argument they flirted with. More recently, almost every European country has seen the emergence of populist parties that call upon nativism and give vent to the idea that the majority population now feels itself unwelcome in its own country. The ugliness of Islamic fundamentalism in particular has given energy and direction to such movements. It will be astonishing if the United States is not faced, in the very near future, with a similar phenomenon. Quite a lot will depend on what kind of politicians emerge to put themselves at the head of it. Saturday's rally was quite largely confined to expressions of pathos and insecurity, voiced in a sickly and pious tone. The emotions that underlay it, however, may not be uttered that way indefinitely.

Now, according to the standards Skeptic has been applying in this thread, the author of the article is obviously expressing "progressive snobism" since the author is expressing the sentiment that an undercurrent of populist nativism is being stoked and stands a chance of becoming volatile.

The author? Christopher Hitchens. Hitch went to great lengths to avoid using the R-word (r followed by acist), though he didn't beat around the bush.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I don't believe I have.

Has there been any follow-ups on the ACLU report? It only talks about 13 men.

And the NY Times report speaks of men who were already illegally in America.
It's not like they deported American citizens. Maybe they should apply for citizenship through legal channels next time.

This is a very complex subject and not on topic to this thread. Basically totally innocent people were locked up without due process. Men who had lived in this country for decades, including some who had been here since they were infants were put onto jets and deported to countries they hadn't been in for the same amount of time. Their families often had no idea where they were and couldn't find their loved one's whereabouts even with lawyers helping.

Regardless of the legality, and in some cases the lack of it, it was uncalled for and the lack of due process was unethical. As for the lawsuits, I don't know about these specifically but considering Maher Arar was denied the right to sue by the Bush admin claiming national security precluded the lawsuit after the US mistakenly had him taken to a third country and tortured for close to a year, my guess is the same occurred in these cases. All Bush had to do was invoke national security and no trial would be allowed regardless of the merits of the case.

This is old news and off topic.

 

[Sabrina]

This seems appropriate... although I can't speak to the veracity of the claims...

 

[JihadJane]

When was the "honor" lost?

 

[Spindrift]

This seems appropriate... although I can't speak to the veracity of the claims...

[qimg]http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/beck-mlk_flow-chart.jpg[/qimg]

These things only feed the fire on both sides. I'm sure someone could make a poster featuring some of MLK known transgressions and I wouldn't doubt if one already exists.

 

[Sabrina]

Which would be why I said I can't speak to the veracity of the claims. Still, IMHO, Glenn Beck has done absolutely nothing beyond being a conspiracy-minded blowhard on a questionable news channel to achieve the level of recognition he has; in comparison to Dr. King, he's little better than pond scum. Again, JMO.

 

[MattusMaximus]

I love this sub-title to an article I read today:

Glenn Beck's rally was large, vague, moist, and undirected—the Waterworld of white self-pity.

A quote from the article: "But nobody with any feeling for the zeitgeist can avoid noticing the symptoms of white unease and the additionally uneasy forms that its expression is beginning to take."

Good ol' Hitch. He's still got it

 

[phiwum]

I'm simply pointing out to Skeptic Ginger that the number of Obama as Hitler allusions have a long way to go before they rival the number of Bush as Hitler allusions.

That page describes two Bush as Hitler allusions. I think there are rather more Obama as Hitler representations than two.

Not that it really matters. Both analogies are at least silly and more likely damaging to the political discussion. How many times each side has done this is not really relevant: it was a bad analogy then and it is a bad analogy now. Acknowledging the latter doesn't deny the former.

 

[Denver]

Mr Beck just launched a new web site: The Blaze. The timing suggests a leveraging of the excitement and publicity he's generated from the rally.

(Currently seems to be a lot of broken links though)

 

[Rodney]

That page describes two Bush as Hitler allusions. I think there are rather more Obama as Hitler representations than two.

I guess you missed the allusions made by these folks:

Artists, writers, singers, poets etc
Harold Pinter. Corin Redgrave. Ted Rall. Annoy.com. Jay Baker.
Aaron McGruder. Linda Ronstadt. Rex Curry. Michael Bramante.

Commentators, columnists and pundits
Scott Ritter. Harvey Wasserman. Thomas Walkom of the Toronto Star. Neil Clark. Dave Lindorff.
Paul Street. Samir Amin. Iver Bogen. Yamin Zakaria. David R. Hoffman (Legal Editor of PRAVDA).
Federico Fasano Mertens, editor of La Republica del Uruguay. Wayne Madsen. Dennis Kaiser.
Prashant Bhushan. Dr. Norman D. Livergood. Samir Hussain and Pranjal Tiwari.
The Daily Collegian's Donaldson and Gonzalez. At OpEd News: Rob Kall and Robert Thompson.
Bob Fitrakis. Hugh Pearson. Bill Burkett.
Carl Doerner. Adam Engel. Thom Hartmann. Michael Berglin.
John Pilger. Allen Snyder. Lilian Friedberg

Political campaigners, campaigning organisations
MoveOn.Org. Ken O'Keefe. Edward Jayne. PeaceAware.
Assorted demonstrators, 20th March 2004. Protestors in Greece, 2003.
Take Back The Media. Rev James Love. A Voice for Freedom. Axis of Logic.
georgewalkerbush.net. Human Rights Action. Flying Fish. What Really Happened.
Assorted demonstrators, March and November 2003.
One T-Shirt vendor among many. Unknown News. George Soros. Another T-Shirt vendor.
World Socialist Web Site.

Politicians
John Valder. Fidel Castro. Government of North Korea. Iran's Ayatollah Khamenei.

Fringe
oilempire.us. Ireland's OWN. Fallout Shelter News. NoGW.com ("no George W").
The Public Cause Network. Biblebelievers.org.au.

See http://semiskimmed.net/bushhitler.html

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

These things only feed the fire on both sides. I'm sure someone could make a poster featuring some of MLK known transgressions and I wouldn't doubt if one already exists.

You miss the point. What has Beck accomplished?

You tell us how this ad could be reversed? Here, let me get you started:

MLK: cheated on his wife.

Beck: turned to God, overcame alcoholism, and went on to broadcast hate and bizarre conspiracy theories misleading thousands of people to believe false things.

 

[Skeptic]

Don't forget paying about twice what one would expect to pay for a normal "commute" car. Hey, I love the idea of an electric car for my commute but there is no way on God's green earth that I would pay over twice what I would pay for the gas car.

Well, the Volt is priced at about two and a half times the price of a regular car with its performance. You pay twice as much -- the other half-car is other people's money in the form of a tax rebate.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm simply pointing out to Skeptic Ginger that the number of Obama as Hitler allusions have a long way to go before they rival the number of Bush as Hitler allusions.

Like I said, I think Bush is more of an Alfred E Newman than a Hitler.

It's true that when the progressives complain about bigots and racists among the conservatives, it doesn't help that the progressive house is not perfectly clean. It makes one think about whether or not one's views are as valid as one thinks they are.

I've thought about it and believe I'm looking at evidence based conclusions, not knee-jerk reactions to slogans and slogan based charges. Bush's political position was a lot closer to fascism than Obama's. Fascism is a political system of extreme right wing nationalism, not liberalism, socialism or communism.


But that's a topic for another thread. Racism is not about depicting Obama or Bush as Hitler. Frankly I find both depictions stupid. The racism here, as I noted before, encompasses a number of different philosophies held by right wingers and Tea Partiers. And not all conservatives have the said bigoted beliefs or philosophies. Many conservatives are just convinced the GOP has better economic policy. It's a false image, but it is not about racism.

But that doesn't mean the GOP isn't courting and exploiting extremist anti-government, anti-black, anti-Obama, anti-gay, anti-anything not Christian, and anti-immigrants who don't look white. When the GOP stokes those fires, the bigots among them come out of the woodwork.