Insane Clown Posse's song about 'Miracles' called worst song ever

[vwgub]

I believe you are referring to the demonstration out West by a science group on magnets?

Where a bunch of condescending dicks almost got their asses handed to them? That incident?

Oh jeez. Now you had to say something to bring me back in.

"a science group"
"a bunch of condescending dicks"

 

[Furcifer]

I wrote a long reply that I managed to accidentally delete but if you want to know some history about this kind of anti-learning look up JIM JONES.

Wiki doesn't have anything on him. He called out Tru-Life in a showdown for a $50 000 prize or something. Jay-Z dissed him in some rap song, yada yada.

Don't get it.

 

[vwgub]

Nope, I'll always support people's Constitutional Rights. You haven't presented an argument anywhere near being close enough to revoke someone's First Amendment rights.

when have I ever argued against first amendment rights

 

[vwgub]

Wiki doesn't have anything on him. He called out Tru-Life in a showdown for a $50 000 prize or something. Jay-Z dissed him in some rap song, yada yada.

Don't get it.

And yet they are glorifying the same freeking thing.

 

[bozman]

Obviously, like anything in that kind of business, much of what they (ICP) do is about gaining notoriety. Let's face it, controversy is rarely a bad thing when it comes to being an entertainer, and there's little doubt that ICP is riding their whole "ef the man" image to the bank.

Where I find disagreement with you (3body) is your use of the term “fictional characters.” Actually, I'm not totally sure what you mean by it. You're saying that ICP's entire existence is based purely on satire and therefore should be treated as such, right? Even if I were to accept this premise (which I don't... although I'd agree they sometimes are satirical and silly), saying they are no different than Homer Simpson or Freddy Krueger is kind of pointless because you have yet to convince anyone else ICP exists as pure farce in the first place.

And by the way, who says ICP must either be completely “real” or only exist as a total and complete farce anyway? I suspect there are elements of satire in ICP, but so what? Rush Limbaugh uses satire and silliness all the time, but he's still a douche who probably does believe most of what he says. Sure he has a right to say dumb ****, but that's not the issue.

 

[Furcifer]

Obviously, like anything in that kind of business, much of what they (ICP) do is about gaining notoriety. Let's face it, controversy is rarely a bad thing when it comes to being an entertainer, and there's little doubt that ICP is riding their whole "ef the man" image to the bank.

Where I find disagreement with you (3body) is your use of the term “fictional characters.” Actually, I'm not totally sure what you mean by it. You're saying that ICP's entire existence is based purely on satire and therefore should be treated as such, right? Even if I were to accept this premise (which I don't... although I'd agree they sometimes are satirical and silly), saying they are no different than Homer Simpson or Freddy Krueger is kind of pointless because you have yet to convince anyone else ICP exists as pure farce in the first place.

And by the way, who says ICP must either be completely “real” or only exist as a total and complete farce anyway? I suspect there are elements of satire in ICP, but so what? Rush Limbaugh uses satire and silliness all the time, but he's still a douche who probably does believe most of what he says. Sure he has a right to say dumb ****, but that's not the issue.

Google is your friend.

fictional character - an imaginary person represented in a work of fiction (play or film or story); "she is the main character in the novel"

Joseph Bruce and Joseph Utsler play the fictional characters "Violent J" and "Shaggy 2 Dope". Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope, the fictional characters and played by Joseph Bruce and Joseph Utsler. Joseph Bruce and Joseph Utsler are not immortal wicked clowns that like to chop up people and rape dead bodies and kill bitches.


There's no reason to respond to the rest of your post because you engage in the same fallacy, you're comparing Violent J and shaggy 2 Dope to Rush Limbaugh.

If Rush Limbaugh puts on face make-up and creates a persona please let me know. We can compare them all day long if you'd like. In the mean time please you have to stop, it really is embarrassing to see people doing this.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

Joseph Bruce and Joseph Utsler play the fictional characters "Violent J" and "Shaggy 2 Dope". Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope, the fictional characters and played by Joseph Bruce and Joseph Utsler. Joseph Bruce and Joseph Utsler are not immortal wicked clowns that like to chop up people and rape dead bodies and kill bitches.

But do they actively, seriously promote willing ignorance of science?


Yes.


Or are they just "in character" during all interviews?

 

[Furcifer]

But do they actively, seriously promote willing ignorance of science?
Yes.
Or are they just "in character" during all interviews?

You could say they "promote" a lot of things if by "promote" you mean sing in a lyric. But then you could say that about just about any artist or author.

And yes, they hardly ever break character. That's what people want to see, the character.

 

[bozman]

Google is your friend.

Thanks. I just tried it and found this.

"Begging the question", is committed "when a proposition which requires proof is assumed without proof.

Guess what? Repeating "they're fictional characters" enough times and treating it as a given is no substitute for actual evidence. Either you're too dull to realize what you're doing, or you're being a typical fanboy and getting your panties in a wad because people are bashing your beloved ICP.

Oh well, it's pretty clear you're not fooling anyone. Thanks. It was fun.

 

[Furcifer]

Thanks. I just tried it and found this.



Guess what? Repeating "they're fictional characters" enough times and treating it as a given is no substitute for actual evidence. Either you're too dull to realize what you're doing, or you're being a typical fanboy and getting your panties in a wad because people are bashing your beloved ICP.

Oh well, it's pretty clear you're not fooling anyone. Thanks. It was fun.

Did you happen to stumble upon Ad hominem? That's the last resort of a person failing miserably in a debate.

The fact that you can't tell 2 guys from Detroit in face paint are fictional characters is priceless. The same thing happens with children and professional wrestling, they think the characters are real. Learning what is and isn't real is part of growing up.

 

[bozman]

Did you happen to stumble upon Ad hominem? That's the last resort of a person failing miserably in a debate.

Yeah, it looks pretty clear you don't know much about what a fallacy actually is. Google "ad hominem." Here, I'll help with what I'm specifically referring to:

Common misconceptions about ad hominem

The argumentum ad hominem is not always fallacious, for in some instances questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue.

Gratuitous verbal abuse or "name-calling" itself is not an argumentum ad hominem or a logical fallacy. The fallacy only occurs if personal attacks are employed instead of an argument to devalue an argument by attacking the speaker, not personal insults in the middle of an otherwise sound argument or insults that stand alone.

I said you're wrong about ICP being fictional characters specifically because you're begging the question instead of providing any evidence. I guess we're into moving goal posts now. As for name calling, I've never had a problem with calling a dumb ass a dumb ass. Jesus, don't you think you should read a book on logical fallacies or something instead of pretending to know what you're talking about?

As for your second paragraph, all you have to do is imagine someone beating his head against a wall to know what I have to say about your begging the question again.

 

[Furcifer]

Yeah, it looks pretty clear you don't know much about what a fallacy actually is. Google "ad hominem." Here, I'll help with what I'm specifically referring to:

I said you're wrong about ICP being fictional characters specifically because you're begging the question instead of providing any evidence. I guess we're into moving goal posts now. As for name calling, I've never had a problem with calling a dumb ass a dumb ass. Jesus, don't you think you should read a book on logical fallacies or something instead of pretending to know what you're talking about?

"Ad hominem (abusive): instead of attacking an assertion, the argument attacks the person who made the assertion."

My being "dull" has nothing to do with the fact that Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope are fictional characters. Thanks for demonstrating the importance of comprehension so many Googlers lack.

Now because you've been shown that the characters played by Joseph Bruce and Joseph Utsler are fictional you've seen the fallacy of your comparing them to real people like Rush Limbaugh (he's barely real), you're simply resorting to adhoms and derailing.

The fact that you continue to call these entertainers by their stage names is pretty telling. Do you think Bozo the Clown and Ronald Mc Donald are real people too? What about The Rock? Forest Gump? Forest Gump doesn't even wear face paint, and he deliberately tried to write himself into history, that must be very confusing for you.

These are all fictional characters, it's pretty sad you can't tell the difference. And you're calling me "dull"? That's rich.

edit: (don't worry, these clowns aren't real either, they're emoticons)

 

[TubbaBlubba]

The fact that you can't tell 2 guys from Detroit in face paint are fictional characters is priceless. The same thing happens with children and professional wrestling, they think the characters are real. Learning what is and isn't real is part of growing up.

At least Hulk Hogan promotes things like being good to your family and don't doing drugs.

 

[Questioninggeller]

Wiki doesn't have anything on him. He called out Tru-Life in a showdown for a $50 000 prize or something. Jay-Z dissed him in some rap song, yada yada.

Don't get it.

Are you serious?

He is referring to Jim Jones of the People's Temple. Nearly a thousand people killed at his request.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples_Temple


3bodyproblem, you haven't offered any proof that ICP are pretending to be stupid. People have left the discussion because you just keep going without understanding points they've made. Your arguments aren't intellectually honest and ignore clear evidence.

 

[Furcifer]

Are you serious?

He is referring to Jim Jones of the People's Temple. Nearly a thousand people killed at his request.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples_Temple


3bodyproblem, you haven't offered any proof that ICP are pretending to be stupid. People have left the discussion because you just keep going without understanding points they've made. Your arguments aren't intellectually honest and ignore clear evidence.

lol, yes you got me, they really are Insane Clowns. Everything they rap about is true. How could it be any other way? This is so embarassing.



I'm sorry but I'm having trouble believeing someone could listen to ICP and think for a second they were being serious. It's like talking to a child who's convinced Santa Claus is real. Despite the evidence to the contrary you simply believe 2 guys dressed up as clowns are to be taken seriously. I'm at a loss for words.

 

[Questioninggeller]

lol, yes you got me, they really are Insane Clowns. Everything they rap about is true. How could it be any other way? This is so embarassing.



I'm sorry but I'm having trouble believeing someone could listen to ICP and think for a second they were being serious. It's like talking to a child who's convinced Santa Claus is real. Despite the evidence to the contrary you simply believe 2 guys dressed up as clowns are to be taken seriously. I'm at a loss for words.

What's the title of the thread you are posting in?

All you can do is point to their name from 1989, instead of talking about a song (the subject of this thread) released twenty years later in 2009, which the group called "meaningful" and "deep".

We are having a hard time understanding that anyone can believe ICP's "Miracles" is intentionally stupid. The fact that you don't understand people's points nor get basic references and then try to talk down to people, shows what's really the issue. And its not ICP...


As said above:

As far as a derail this is very pertinent to you're argument that ICP are just joking and if you can't see that oh well that's kind of the point.

You have no *********** clue what I am referring to are you? They physically threatened people in the middle of a street who were for all intents and purposes having fun with the song.

Its very clear you're defending ICP's stupidity because you like them, not for any logical or evidential reason.

 

[Furcifer]

Its very clear you're defending ICP's stupidity because you like them, not for any logical or evidential reason.

Except Joseph Bruce's own words:

"I know this sounds crazy, but I’m being as honest as I can: We planned all this out. Our tour starts in May. And then we have our nuclear weapon, which is the movie “Big Money Rustlas.” That comes out in August. This is all happening so perfectly for us."

For you information Big Money Rustlas is also a satire.

"I think we might have misused the word miracle. These things we mentioned in the song, they can all be explained. But what we’re doing is appreciating them. Even the infamous line “Magnets, how do they work?” I mean, yeah, we know how magnets work. But they’re still incredible."

So they know they can all be explained, but they are rapping otherwise. Do you know what that's called?

"I’d rather be the dumbed-down guy appreciating everything than the guy who knows everything and doesn’t appreciate [anything]."

These "dumbed down" guys have created a $10million a year empire. I've met them, they aren't "dumb". They're being intentionally stupid in this song to be "deep" and "meaningful". It's ICP FFS what did you expect?

The sad thing is people are falling for this hook line and sinker. These "dumb" guys have outsmarted you. That's gotta be embarrassing. Obviously you've got egg on your face and you just refuse to admit you've been fooled by a coupla clowns.

 

[Questioninggeller]

Except Joseph Bruce's own words:

"I know this sounds crazy, but I’m being as honest as I can: We planned all this out. Our tour starts in May. And then we have our nuclear weapon, which is the movie “Big Money Rustlas.” That comes out in August. This is all happening so perfectly for us."

For you information Big Money Rustlas is also a satire.

Are we talking about their silly western movie? No. We are talking about a song, a particular song they claim is "meaningful."

"I think we might have misused the word miracle. These things we mentioned in the song, they can all be explained. But what we’re doing is appreciating them. Even the infamous line “Magnets, how do they work?” I mean, yeah, we know how magnets work. But they’re still incredible."

So they know they can all be explained, but they are rapping otherwise. Do you know what that's called?

"I’d rather be the dumbed-down guy appreciating everything than the guy who knows everything and doesn’t appreciate [anything]."

I posted those quotes originally. It shows they are proud of their ignorance.

(Note Violent J said that in face paint. You quoting it shows you again admit what he says can't always in be dismissed as fictional, contrary to your above claims.)

These "dumbed down" guys have created a $10million a year empire. I've met them, they aren't "dumb". They're being intentionally stupid in this song to be "deep" and "meaningful". It's ICP FFS what did you expect?

The sad thing is people are falling for this hook line and sinker. These "dumb" guys have outsmarted you. That's gotta be embarrassing. Obviously you've got egg on your face and you just refuse to admit you've been fooled by a coupla clowns.

What's this prove?

There are many rich people who are not smart. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Furcifer]

Are we talking about their silly western movie? No. We are talking about a song, particular song they claim is "meaningful."

obvious troll is obvious. Nice dodge though.

I posted those quotes originally. It shows they are proud of their ignorance.

Ignorance of what exactly? You're either lying or your not reading for comprehension.

What's this prove?
There are many rich people who are not smart. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Two poor kids from the Detroit projects invent an entirely new genre of music and turn it into a $10 million a year cash cow. They might not be book smart, but they're smart enough to figure out how to turn acting like idiots into a ton of money.
I'd like to see you figure out how to do that. I bet you can't, you're not smart enough.

 

[Questioninggeller]

obvious troll is obvious. Nice dodge though.

Well, if you consider sticking to the topic of the thread and of this discussion, ie "Miracles," a dodge so be it.

Ignorance of what exactly? You're either lying or your not reading for comprehension.

Go back and read the thread with careful attention to the evidence people have posted.

The ICP quote you posted (which is to what I was referring to), appeared first in the thread when I posted the link to an article titled "Insane Clown Posse: a magnet for ignorance."

The abstract of that article:

Fascinated by miracles such as, er, magnets, Insane Clown Posse should be a laughing stock. But their fans – the Juggalos – symbolise a growing reactionary culture in America, in which ignorance is seen as a virtue

Read the whole article if you want to understand what I referred to.

(Also people here noticed you took my quote out of context to ignore me pointing out your misattribution. You are the one who made a big deal about the "difference" between Joesph Bruce and Violent J.)

Two poor kids from the Detroit projects invent an entirely new genre of music and turn it into a $10 million a year cash cow. They might not be book smart, but they're smart enough to figure out how to turn acting like idiots into a ton of money.
I'd like to see you figure out how to do that. I bet you can't, you're not smart enough.

Conflating money with intelligence. Yet, another fallacy that fails to prove "Miracles" is intentionally bad.

And Kent Hovind was just a mechanic, until he found a niche and was able to earn more than $1 million dollars a year. Maybe you think Hovind is "smart" too? Glenn Beck makes how much each year? Maybe you think he's "smart" as well?

(By the way, I saw an interview of Violent J speaking openly to his fans at the Gathering where he said they are "broke." Maybe Violent J is lying to his fans?)


On a side note, your personal attacks don't help your argument.