That probably isn't the right thing to do. They're entertainers not educators. There's a different standard expected of different groups. If you are turning to an entertainer to help make life decisions you may want to reconsider.
You have to separate the persona that is Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope from the people Joseph Bruce and Joseph Utsler. The band will say whatever they think will sell records and get people to the show.
Strawman. No one here said ICP and/or the Josephs were educators. The song and recent events simply shows they are not-too-smart rappers with an underground following of like-minded people.
Please help me out. When a post on Violent J's blog to the Juggalos says the Miracles song is deep and meaningful, is he serious? (Below you say he is.) Or is that a character you want to dismiss as "saying whatever they think to sell records" and not to be taken seriously? (Also below you say they are.) If it is a character, do the Juggalos know that? And how do
you know that? (Please support your argument with evidence, I'm not interested in any further conjecture from you that isn't supported.)
You obviously haven't read any of the links I've provided.
Ditto. Did you read the "barely literate" interview or the several interviews I've posted in this thread for months? Note that ICP didn't deny that label of "barely literate" and said ignorance is better than knowledge.
I know you are having trouble separating the fictional characters that are ICP from the people. You've provided enough evidence of that here for me to make this observation. I'm pointing this out so you can make a more informed decision.
Fictional characters can't be serious or carry serious themes? (See my above questions in this post and your below quote where you take the character at face value. You contradicted yourself.)
Sorry, but you provided nothing of the sort. The interviews I posted show they are proud of the song and stand by its preaching ignorance theme.
No, you haven't. In fact, I haven't heard a coherent argument at all.
This thread would suggest otherwise.
I'll spell it out. "Magnets how do they work?" ICP are quite serious, but reasonable people don't take the act or the people behind the characters seriously because, as Martin Bashir said, its music by and for the barely literate.
You seem to not gasp what several others have said above.
I'm sorry you need to be more clear, what am I dismissing exactly? I've given links that clearly indicate ICP believe they used the word "miracle" incorrectly, that they realize there are scientific explanations for everything, but that science removes some of the mysticism from things that keeps people fascinated.
You haven't formed a coherent argument this entire time.
That's not the issue. The point is they don't actually care to know the explanations (no kidding they
admit there are explanations. They've been mocked and confronted with the explanations many times since the song was released. Did you read my first post in the thread?) and they encourage others to be ignorant because its more "fun" (or as Violent J said "funner").
The point of this thread is the song is horrible, infantile, ignorant and preaches ignorance under the guise of "Miracles". If you like that and others do too, fine.
Please clarify: Are you claiming the song and subsequent interviews preaching ignorance are part of a joke? Are you disagreeing with ICP's own words and saying the song isn't deep and that it lacks actual meaning?
As far as ICP goes yes, this song has more depth and certainly has more meaning than most.
So it
is serious for ICP? Its not a joke from ICP? So the character writing as Violent J should have his words taken seriously? (It seems
you are having a hard time distinguishing between the characters and the people as well as reality and fiction. You want to dismiss their words claiming its a character only when it reflects poorly on them. If you didn't accept/reject how their words came across based on how you want them represented then you'd see the irony ICP aren't in on. That's the irony I explained earlier regarding why people don't take them seriously. It's also the irony that many of their fans may not be in on either.)
Your argument is all over the place.
A question for you, do you think that ICP the band or even just the 2 Joes actually believe the scientists are lying? I personally see it as a clear indication they are joking. I'm genuinely confused how people can take this as anything but tongue in cheek.
Plenty of conspiracy theorists and creationists, this includes "average Joes," claim scientists lie. Dozens of
US Senators claim scientists are lying about global warming. If you accept the reality of global warming, but like some of the US Senators who claim its a hoax then maybe you'd claim the Senators are joking? The Glenn Becks of the world
say the email hack proves scientists are lying. Many creationists
claim scientists lie about evolution.
Many anti-intellectuals claim scientists lie! Yet, you think those words are evidence people are joking and not anti-intellectual.
Sometimes those people get discussed on the JREF board, such as others like ICP who do similar things. If another band preached nonsense, I'd discuss it too. (
Go here for my discussion on Van Halen cancer's conspiracy. Maybe you think Eddie's joking too?)
Your "personal" beliefs are not of interest here. You are ignoring the obvious and a collection of data that points to some serious irony that ICP is not in on.
To take the song and their representations of the song as "tongue in cheek" would require the above double-think that your post displayed. There is no reason, other than being a fan of the music ahead of time wanting to defend these guys, to believe their words in the song do anything, but point to sheer willingful ignorance.
