Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

[Skeptic]

Thunder and The Fool,
Did you watch the BBC special? Do you think they are lying or misrepresenting what actually happened?

Of course they are! They didn't reach the expected "Israel eeeeeeeeevil" conclusion (well, this time).

What other explanation for such an incomprehensible result could there be except for the BBC lying?

The term Flotialla truther really couldn't be more appropriate.

The logic is surely the same:

--I demand an investigation as to why X happened!
--There was an investigation. It was because of Y.
--You're lying!
--How do you know?
--Because I already know it was because of Z! Any other result just shows they investigators are wrong!
--If you already know, why are you asking for an investigation?

 

[lionking]

BBC accused of Islamophobia? I've seen everything now.

 

[portlandatheist]

Of course they are! They didn't reach the expected "Israel eeeeeeeeevil" conclusion (well, this time).

What other explanation for such an incomprehensible result could there be except for the BBC lying?



The logic is surely the same:

--I demand an investigation as to why X happened!
--There was an investigation. It was because of Y.
--You're lying!
--How do you know?
--Because I already know it was because of Z! Any other result just shows they investigators are wrong!
--If you already know, why are you asking for an investigation?

Its pretty hard to find evidence of wrong doing when no wrong doing was done, even if you are the UN or the BBC...no matter how hard you look or how many times.

 

[portlandatheist]

BBC accused of Islamophobia? I've seen everything now.

The protesters all seem to have vague accusations of racism and unfairness but nothing specific. The show aired the video footage and interviewed the head of the IHH and other IHH activists and IDF soldiers and other people who were there. The flotilla truthers fail to bring up specific aspects of the show that were inaccurate. Were any of the interviewees misrepresented? Did they fail to interview the right people?
They don't mention anything like that, they just seem to be very upset and described as people "who are furious that the program was not as hostile to Israel as they thought it should be." Maybe they are trying to say that not being as hostile as they should be towards Israel is "Islamophobic"?

 

[JihadJane]

The protesters all seem to have vague accusations of racism and unfairness but nothing specific.

Absolute rubbish. There are many very specific complaints about the film's bias, assumptions and lack of context. Some of the dishonestly in the film very blatant. I have some favorite comedy moments myself, if you're interested.

The show aired the video footage and interviewed the head of the IHH and other IHH activists and IDF soldiers and other people who were there. The flotilla truthers fail to bring up specific aspects of the show that were inaccurate.

What is the purpose of introducing playground emotional manipulation into your argument?

Very specific aspects have been highlighted. You need to read around a bit!

Were any of the interviewees misrepresented? Did they fail to interview the right people?
They don't mention anything like that, they just seem to be very upset and described as people "who are furious that the program was not as hostile to Israel as they thought it should be." Maybe they are trying to say that not being as hostile as they should be towards Israel is "Islamophobic"?

You apparently haven't bothered to listen to their complaints or do much research into actual complaints about the film before forming your opinion, otherwise you wouldn't have to speculate. You are arguing from ignorance.

 

[JihadJane]

Thunder and The Fool,
Did you watch the BBC special? Do you think they are lying or misrepresenting what actually happened? Do you think the video footage is fake? or that Murat Akinan is not telling the truth, or that Mehmut Tuval is not telling the truth?

Or maybe you guys agree with the delusional folks protesting the BBC special:

--Free Gaza activist Ewa Jasiewicz

Or this gem:

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=185381

The term Flotialla truther really couldn't be more appropriate.

The term " selective reading" couldn't be more apt!

 

[Skeptic]

Its pretty hard to find evidence of wrong doing when no wrong doing was done, even if you are the UN or the BBC...no matter how hard you look or how many times.

Look again. When investigation reveals no evidence of Jewish wrongdoing, it's just because the investigation was biased or not thorough enough.

 

[WildCat]

look, I know how you don't see the point of an investigation when you have already been told what you should believe to be true.....some don't share your faith. Such is life.

I thought you said the "peace activists" had the right to resist boarding? Now you're claiming they didn't resist the boarding, and were shot for no reason other than IDF bloodlust??

 

[WildCat]

Absolute rubbish. There are many very specific complaints about the film's bias, assumptions and lack of context. Some of the dishonestly in the film very blatant. I have some favorite comedy moments myself, if you're interested.

I bet you have as mush evidence for this as you do for your claims that all the OBL videos are CIA fakes.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

It's a classic case of truthers trying to use the weakest and most unreliable evidence to dismiss the strongest and most reliable evidence.

 

[Virus]

I bet you have as mush evidence for this as you do for your claims that all the OBL videos are CIA fakes.

Ha. I'll save that for a rainy day.

 

[WildCat]

Ha. I'll save that for a rainy day.

Heh, didn't even notice my typo.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

The BBC video shows passengers from the flotilla cutting iron bars from the deck railings before the raid. It also shows a media communication room with laptops buzzing away. The IDF was not prepared for iron bars. This suggests that the IDF had no person on board the Mavi Marmara.

I'm not saying it would be easy for Israel to have a "friendly" on board but I sort of thought they would have at least one to state what was going on onboard.

 

[JihadJane]

The documentary calls itself "Death on the Med". Where is the investigation into the deaths?

It's a classic case of truthers trying to use the weakest and most unreliable evidence to dismiss the strongest and most reliable evidence.

The thrill of playground name-calling appears to addled your mind. Most of the documented evidence, stolen by the Israelis, has failed to see the light of day.


This salient fact was not mentioned in the film, one of its many distortions that your keen mind, supposedly untainted by trutherism, has failed to notice.


~~~~~~~~~~

The BBC video shows passengers from the flotilla cutting iron bars from the deck railings before the raid. It also shows a media communication room with laptops buzzing away. The IDF was not prepared for iron bars. This suggests that the IDF had no person on board the Mavi Marmara.

What do you mean by "BCC" video? The BBC had no journalists in the flotilla whatsoever. The footage you refer to is stolen footage, selectively released by the Israeli military.

I'm not saying it would be easy for Israel to have a "friendly" on board but I sort of thought they would have at least one to state what was going on onboard.

Perhaps they did and the IDF is lying

There is footage in the public domain of passengers waving their weapons over the side of the Mavi Marmara to warn off the Israeli attackers from boarding their ship. This was before the lethal, Keystone Cop helicopter assault.

 

[The Fool]

Thunder and The Fool,

can't speak for others but I can answer for myself.

Did you watch the BBC special?

yes

Do you think they are lying or misrepresenting what actually happened?

No, they were presenting the evidence they have and expressing their opinions, overall I thought it was quite a good effort.

Do you think the video footage is fake?

no.

or that Murat Akinan is not telling the truth, or that Mehmut Tuval is not telling the truth?

thats quite possible..

Or maybe you guys agree with the delusional folks protesting the BBC special:

--Free Gaza activist Ewa Jasiewicz

Or this gem:

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=185381

The term Flotialla truther really couldn't be more appropriate.

or maybe I don't agree with these delusional folk...


now can I ask you...

Does the video contain footage of any of the shootings? Is it reasonable to conclude that the shootings were Justified from what you saw?
I actually think they (on the balance of probability) were quite possibly Justified. But I also cannot see anywhere enough evidence to conclude anything beyond reasonable doubt.

I am not willing to declare the Israeli findings true beyond reasonable doubt which seems to me to be required to justify many conclusions I see made in this thread.


anyway...my views are apparently easy to mindread and don't apparently match what I actually type as I regularly get told what I believe on this forum expressed in words I have never used....

 

[amb]

From what is posted here by some, it appears that Israel has no right to defend itself.
It's fine that Hamas can fire dozens of rockets into Israeli civilian zones, with not a peep from Hamas apologists, but the moment Israel tries to defend itself, all hell breaks loose.

Now even the BBC is pro Isreali and anti muslim because it failed to be favourably biased towards the failed attempt at breaking the embargo and the protesters.

 

[WildCat]

From what is posted here by some, it appears that Israel has no right to defend itself.

Of course not! Makes it difficult to drive the Jews into the sea if they're allowed to defend themselves.

 

[The Fool]

From what is posted here by some, it appears that Israel has no right to defend itself.
It's fine that Hamas can fire dozens of rockets into Israeli civilian zones, with not a peep from Hamas apologists, but the moment Israel tries to defend itself, all hell breaks loose.

Now even the BBC is pro Isreali and anti muslim because it failed to be favourably biased towards the failed attempt at breaking the embargo and the protesters.

can you point out the actual posts that you think claim Israel has no right to defend itself....otherwise its just more meaningless chanting of slogans about unsourced claims made by people you can't or won't name.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

What do you mean by "BCC" video?

The BBC's edited television show using various footage from all sources.

The BBC had no journalists in the flotilla whatsoever. The footage you refer to is stolen footage, selectively released by the Israeli military.

I do not care who shot the footage of people cutting iron bars off the railing as I am only observing that, indeed, iron bars were being prepared. I accept the IDF's statement that they were not prepared for the hostile reception of iron bars. Therefore I have put forward my personal opinion that the IDF did not have a "friendly" on board to warn the IDF that such weapons were being prepared. This is a tiny point and has nothing to do with blame or guilt. I am more interested in what went wrong on an operational level. I think it is true to say that the IDF did not want to hurt anyone and I'm interested what went wrong.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

The documentary calls itself "Death on the Med". Where is the investigation into the deaths?





The thrill of playground name-calling appears to addled your mind. Most of the documented evidence, stolen by the Israelis, has failed to see the light of day.


This salient fact was not mentioned in the film, one of its many distortions that your keen mind, supposedly untainted by trutherism, has failed to notice.

Oh so you're not telling the truth then. Thank you for correcting me. Most people who use rhetoric so blatantly and irresponsibly as you like to claim they are telling the truth. It's good to see someone honest here and admit they are not being truthful.