Split Thread 7WTC - controlled demolition or fire and damage induced collapse?

[funk de fino]

Please.
The sounds of explosions were picked up on Ashley Banfield's mic. All the videos were made several blocks away using directional mics designed to pick up what is a few inches in front of them. Very little is picked up from the sides.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhoNYj9_fg&feature=player_embedded

You have no idea how the building could be rigged so stop pretending that you do.
There are over a thousand different types of explosives. [at 18:00]
We control noise levels [at 18:20]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.weloo.com/videos/66410/dc---911-mysteries-part-1-demolitions-2of3wmv.html[/FONT]

You will deny that there are sounds of explosions as you deny all evidence of explosives. No worries mate. I know you are in denial. I am presenting the truth to those who read this but don't post.

Why did none of the demolition experts a few hundred feet from WTC7 when it collapsed agree? They heard nothing.

 

[jaydeehess]

Please.
The sounds of explosions were picked up on Ashley Banfield's mic. All the videos were made several blocks away using directional mics designed to pick up what is a few inches in front of them. Very little is picked up from the sides.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhoNYj9_fg&feature=player_embedded

.

Oh please yourself Chris. You apparently know little about ENG microphones.

Was Ashleigh using one with a cardoid, super cardoid or hypercardoid pattern?
Was she holding the mic or was she using a 'Lavalier' type clip on?
There is a very small angle to the mic at which "very little" is picked up. For the most common handheld ENG mics, it is super cardoid, at 90 degrees and 180 degrees sound is 10 db lower. Only at about 120 degrees to either side is attenuation really pronounced.
For hypercardoid the 90 degree attenuation is greater but the 180 degree attenuation is actually less than for super cardoid.

Lavalier types are usually either omnidirectional or cardoid because the more directional a clip on is the worse it gets if the speaker moves his/her head.

 

[Christopher7]

Shyam Sunder:
"a free fall time would be an object that has no structural components below it . . . there was structural resistance that was provided in this particular case. And you had a sequence of structural failures that had to take place. Everything was not instantaneous."

It's NOT a general statement as he is referring to the TOTAL collapse time of the viewable video from the point where the roof line begins it's descent until it is out of view. He is saying that in order for the collapse to be considered free fall, the roof line would have to have disappeared from view in 3.9 seconds which it did not. It took 40% longer than 3.9 seconds.

Wrong. Dr. Sunder is referring to FFA.

It didn't fall at free fall. If it did, the roof line would have disappeared from view in 3.9 seconds.

Wrong!
What part of
"[FONT=&quot]the[/FONT][FONT=&quot] north face descended at gravitational acceleration, . . . This free fall drop continued for approximately 8 stories or 32.0 m (105 ft)[/FONT]
don't you understand?

I guess you're saying that because WTC7's roof line fell at FFA for 2 seconds, the whole collapse is considered free fall?

Wrong again.

 

[GlennB]

I am presenting the truth to those who read this but don't post.

Richard Nixon would be proud of you.

 

[carlitos]

Misguided arrogance in big bold text totally rocks!

 

[jaydeehess]

As for free fall;
Chris brushed aside the faster than free fall measurements. I suppose he will also brush aside the fact that Chandler never bothered with such technical details as margin of error. Of course Chandler simply handwaves margin of error away claiming that his data shows it was close enough.

BUZZ - not good enough. NIST was not attempting a forensics conclusion concerning this maximum 2.25 seconds of free fall acelleration. Chandler is doing exactly that and thus it is encumbant upon Chandler to do everything possible to limit and quantify the margin of error of his measurements AT THE VERY LEAST!.

To the 'sounds of explosions' once again we run into the FACT that many loud sounds can mimic those produced by other means. For instance as a carpenter Chris probably knows that allowing a 2X6 to land flat on another 2X6 will easily create a 'gunshot' sound. No lead, no gunpowder but a sound that will make a person jump for sure.

With the damage to WTC 3,4,5,6, and 7 as it was I would be quite suprised if partial collapses of floors or walls was not taking place. These would produce very loud booms and shake the place up. In fact sometime before the dust settled from WTC 1, the SW corner of WTC 7 was destroyed. It very well could be that a large portion of a floor or column came loose 15 minutes after the impact that tore away most of what was seen to be missing after the dust settled. Same goes for WTC 3,4,5,6 all of which might easily have had internal portions give way over many minutes after initial impacts.

 

[jaydeehess]

Chris, at the time of this free fall exactly how much resistance would you or Chandler have expected to see? How much would this resistance lower the acelleration of the collapse?

Chandler saw faster than Free fall. Did NIST? How does that fit into your CD senario?

 

[Christopher7]

Was Ashleigh using one with a cardoid, super cardoid or hypercardoid pattern?

It is impossible to ascertain the make and model from the video. Many mics look almost exactly the same.

Was she holding the mic or was she using a 'Lavalier' type clip on?

Absurd question. Ashley is very obviously using a hand held mic.

Directional mics, designed to pick up what is directly in front of them a few inches away and little else, are essential for street interviews to minimize other sounds.

 

[triforcharity]

It is impossible to ascertain the make and model from the video. Many mics look almost exactly the same.

Absurd question. Ashley is very obviously using a hand held mic.

Directional mics, designed to pick up what is directly in front of them a few inches away and little else, are essential for street interviews to minimize other sounds.

And yet, suprisingly, it still picked up the sound of the collapse....

Cranial rectal inversion is the only reason for your continued ignorance of this fact.

 

[Christopher7]

Chris, at the time of this free fall exactly how much resistance would you or Chandler have expected to see? How much would this resistance lower the acelleration of the collapse?

It is impossible to determine the exact amount of resistance the buckling columns would have provided. You know that. It is sufficient to say that it would be noticeable.

Chandler saw faster than Free fall.

Mr. Chandler's FFA analysis falls within the margin of error for the software. The claim that he saw faster than FFA is false.

The NIST analysis was within one tenth of one percent of FFA. Negligible - Virtually zero.

 

[Justin39640]

It is impossible to determine the exact amount of resistance the buckling columns would have provided. You know that. It is sufficient to say that it would be noticeable.

Mr. Chandler's FFA analysis falls within the margin of error for the software. The claim that he saw faster than FFA is false.

The NIST analysis was within one tenth of one percent of FFA. Negligible - Virtually zero.

Once the columns buckle they no longer have any ability to support the weight above, at that point their resistance in negligible The whole bottom "kicks out" in the NIST simulation. In reality there was not much to stop the building from falling once that happened. No "boom" needed.

 

[BigAl]

It is impossible to ascertain the make and model from the video. Many mics look almost exactly the same.

Absurd question. Ashley is very obviously using a hand held mic.

Directional mics, designed to pick up what is directly in front of them a few inches away and little else, are essential for street interviews to minimize other sounds.

With or without a mic, nobody heard man-made demolition at WTC.

The mic she is holding is much to small and the wrong shape to be directional.

Make stuff up much?

 

[Christopher7]

Directional mics, designed to pick up what is directly in front of them a few inches away and little else, are essential for street interviews to minimize other sounds.

And yet, suprisingly, it still picked up the sound of the collapse....

Note that when Ashley is speaking, she holds the mic about a inch away because she is speaking from the side [and over the top to prevent popping when pronouncing the letter "P"]. When she is pointing the mic toward the lady she holds it several inches away [and at an angle slightly toward WTC 7] yet the volume is about the same. This proves that the mic picks up much more directly in front than from the side. Ashley is a professional and knows the characteristics of the mic she is using.

 

[Christopher7]

With or without a mic, nobody heard man-made demolition at WTC.

Denial

 

[BigAl]

Denial

What's to deny?

After several years of my asking, nobody has been able to come up with a citation for a loud noise consistent in timing, loudness and brisance with man-made demolition.

Prove me wrong.

Hints: "like" is a simile. "explosion" is just another word for "loud noise"

 

[Christopher7]

Once the columns buckle they no longer have any ability to support the weight above, at that point their resistance in negligible

There were 57 exterior columns buckling in different directions. There was always structural resistance as noted by Dr. Sunder.

The whole bottom "kicks out" in the NIST simulation.

False

 

[Christopher7]

What's to deny?

The possibility that what Ashley reacted to was the sound of demolition charges.

You guys do mental gymnastics thinking up what else could have caused the explosions heard by Ashley and over 100 others during that day, but you cannot bring yourselves to admit that it could have been explosives. You even refuse to accept that what Ashley heard were explosions. Your unanimous and relentless denial of this possibility is absolute and transparent.

 

[lapman]

More blatant stupidity on Chandlers your part.
Please note that at 4:13 the screenwall and west penthouse have not collapsed yet. The collapse of the rest of the building didn't happen for until a couple seconds after that.

Total and complete stupidity and denial on your part. At 4:13, the wall of dust is already traveling down the street. Just because you close your eyes and chant "FFA=CD" continuously doesn't make it any different.

You do raise an interesting point. There is a great deal of smoke coming from the bottom floors on the north side just before the collapse. NIST does not mention these fires. Daryl [first year med student] mentioned that the bottom floors were on fire. That is the only report of the these fires that I know of.

Ok, and what's your point? Did Daryl submit this? Is there any video record of this?

 

[BigAl]

The possibility that what Ashley reacted to was the sound of demolition charges.

There was no demolition explosion recorded on that tape or any other tape. The street scene shows hundreds of people (many thousands,really), none of whom seem to agree with you about hearing man-made demolition.

There are no eyewitnesses to the collapse that have joined the "truth movement."

Ask yourself why.

 

[Christopher7]

At 4:13, the wall of dust is already traveling down the street.

Hello? The screenwall and west-penthouse have not fallen at 4:13.