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Ed All 43 videos "Second Hit"" [Explosion]at WTC 2: Plane or No Plane?

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An example of the mindset we are dealing with here.

This is all from memory btw but I can dig out the actual recording if anyone's interested.

Jim Fetzer "radio" interview with Judy Wood about the effects of DEW at the WTC, exploring the question, "Why use Directed Energy at all?".

In short, Judy Wood reasoned that "they" employed DEW because the bathtub wasn't built to withstand the impact/weight of the two towers as and when they collapsed. She asserted that the evil perps wanted to vapourise the towers mid-air because the bathtub couldn't take it, it would burst under the weight and flood the whole of lower Manhattan causing utter devastation.

OK there we have it, later in the phone-in section of the show a caller (a truther no less) points out that the bathtub was damaged.....Judy's reply? "Ahh but you see! That's part of the cover-up!"

What we've got here is bats in the attic, dragons in the garage and turtles all the way down. It's a zoo, a mad *********** menagerie

Compus

Hi Compus,

While your quoted post is off topic, you might, nonetheless want to consider sourcing your claim of bathtub damage, its nature and extent. Otherwise, you are merely continuing the now well established pattern and practice amongst debunker types to just whistle dixie, as it were, about anything, at any time, in any thread, for whatever purpose.
 
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I spotted that the graphed data did not match, not Jammo.

You spotted no such thing. The graph does not say that it is to scale. You have done nothing whatever here except create a strawperson argument.

He was insisting that because the NTSB said that their data ended at 1000 ft that meant that the graph did also.

That is utterly and completely false. There is no reason to pit the chart, which is, afterall, a mere chart, against the NTSB data. Your insistence on doing so here may suit your purposes but you have done nothing at all except create an argument with yourself.

I corrected him on the point.


You did not corect me on a darn thing, Sheeples. You created an argument with yourself that you would like, apparently, to attribute to me.

The graph was the big point of that childish video......they said it showed a steep descent and no pull out.

Yours is a complete and total distortion of what the video claims and shows. I am glad that I have digested the video, stage by stage. Once again, you are engaging in misrepresentation in order to then use that misrepresentation as a way of claiming error.

Your attempt to do that is transparent and demonstrative of an episode of misrepresentation. That and nothing more.

Further, your likely next step is to politicize the matter so as to get your supporters to agree with you that you are right about something or another.

That is fine. It is very clear that data matters not at all to debunkers when the data shows something that they would rather not deal with. Such is the case here. Your attempt is a little more sophisticated than that, say, of Fess. Fess simply claims the radar ends at 1500 to 2000ft. You, on the other hand, take exception to a chart, based on the assumption the chart is drawn to scale and/or that you have an accurate understanding of the assumptions underlying the scaling.

I pointed out that it ended well before impact and I have just calculated that the flight angle was at worst about 25 degrees from the horizontal

Your "pointing out" was devoid of any source reference at all. The NTSB data contradicts you; but, as we know, that doesn't matter much. Your belief is all that matters to you. As to your chart, you used your own assumptions, your own conclusion, arrived at from the start and then you declared yourself right.

That is rich.

Both points make the assertion that the video should have shown the dive and leveling off plainly incorrect. It would be good to plot the height data versus the actual ground speed but we would need the NTSB raw data to do that but the data already provided is quite enough to close this question.

I am not quite sure I understand the above. It seems disjointed to me. Clearly, you conclude that you are right about something; however, we knew that you would do that. What is unclear is what you're attempting to claim you are right about. Perhaps you should double check your claim to see if, in fact, it makes sense to you.

Whatever it is, it has not got anything at all to do with the actual data that show a clear and recognizable contradiction between the radar data that has not ever been differentiated between "real world" and "exercise" and the ALL 43 video that are blatantly false on their face.

The process of falsifying the common storyline of 9/11 as it relates to Flight 175, based solely upon a review of the data and the posting of analysis of it, is proceeding in good order. As I have said many times, it is not necessary to claim who is "right" and who is "wrong". Rather, it is only necessary to post up information and analysis and let the chips fall where they may.

You will not see me making claims about "right" or "wrong" in some conclusory, self-congratulatory manner. However, that is what you have done here, Sheeples. I think doing that is a sign of weakness.

Instead, I would sugges we all just strive for accuracy as best we can and source our claims.
 
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Sheeples,

You just made up your own chart, using your own assumptions and then declared your self right. :boggled:


Please tell me what part of the graph is not accurate? the dat points of 18000ft, 15000ft 10000ft and 2000ft are are taken directly from the NTSB graph at minute intervals before the graph ends.

Are they wrong? (this a rhetorical question)

The horizontal axis (distance) is taken by assuming a ground speed of 350 MPH which equals about 30000ft per minute. is that wrong? what speed would you like me to use? (more rhetorical questions)

so by graphing one against the other you have a true measure of the angle of descent (dive angle).

I said the figures were approximate (the raw NTSB data could improve accuracy) which is why I was conservative with the ground speed figure so that any error would tend to make the angle greater not less.

This is simple middle school math. You did do math didn't you??????:eek:

so unless you can show me an error in my calculations (always possible:)) then there was no steep dive, now sharp pull up, the graph does end well above the impact height and therefore no possible conflict with the videos

by the way that hand wave was a pathetic one by your standards, do better.:D
 
You spotted no such thing. The graph does not say that it is to scale. You have done nothing whatever here except create a strawperson argument.

yes it is. the axis both have clear linear scales, height on the y and time on the Y.



That is utterly and completely false. There is no reason to pit the chart, which is, afterall, a mere chart, against the NTSB data. Your insistence on doing so here may suit your purposes but you have done nothing at all except create an argument with yourself.

how so.....please show how it is false. waiting waiting chirp chirp




You did not corect me on a darn thing, Sheeples. You created an argument with yourself that you would like, apparently, to attribute to me.

Feel free to pretend that. :D



Yours is a complete and total distortion of what the video claims and shows. I am glad that I have digested the video, stage by stage. Once again, you are engaging in misrepresentation in order to then use that misrepresentation as a way of claiming error.

Feel free to pretend that. :D


Your attempt to do that is transparent and demonstrative of an episode of misrepresentation. That and nothing more.

Feel free to pretend that. :D

Further, your likely next step is to politicize the matter so as to get your supporters to agree with you that you are right about something or another.

Math is not a democracy. It is either right or wrong. If it is wrong please show where. If right, be a grown up and admit you were wrong.

That is fine. It is very clear that data matters not at all to debunkers when the data shows something that they would rather not deal with. Such is the case here. Your attempt is a little more sophisticated than that, say, of Fess. Fess simply claims the radar ends at 1500 to 2000ft. You, on the other hand, take exception to a chart, based on the assumption the chart is drawn to scale and/or that you have an accurate understanding of the assumptions underlying the scaling.

you have provided no data other than the graph. If you and your sad video buddy use that for your fantasies why should I not use the same to refute it?:confused:


Your "pointing out" was devoid of any source reference at all. The NTSB data contradicts you; but, as we know, that doesn't matter much. Your belief is all that matters to you. As to your chart, you used your own assumptions, your own conclusion, arrived at from the start and then you declared yourself right.

The source is the video and NTSB graph you posted! YOU were the source.
Are you saying YOUR source is wrong?????? :rolleyes:





I am not quite sure I understand the above. It seems disjointed to me. Clearly, you conclude that you are right about something; however, we knew that you would do that. What is unclear is what you're attempting to claim you are right about. Perhaps you should double check your claim to see if, in fact, it makes sense to you.

what are you unclear about?

Whatever it is, it has not got anything at all to do with the actual data that show a clear and recognizable contradiction between the radar data that has not ever been differentiated between "real world" and "exercise" and the ALL 43 video that are blatantly false on their face.

except that it does exactly the opposite.

The process of falsifying the common storyline of 9/11 as it relates to Flight 175, based solely upon a review of the data and the posting of analysis of it, is proceeding in good order. As I have said many times, it is not necessary to claim who is "right" and who is "wrong". Rather, it is only necessary to post up information and analysis and let the chips fall where they may.

which show you are wrong. thanks for acknowledging that.

You will not see me making claims about "right" or "wrong" in some conclusory, self-congratulatory manner. However, that is what you have done here, Sheeples. I think doing that is a sign of weakness.

I don't give a fig for what you think. You have repeatedly shown to us all that you no clue about anything.


Instead, I would sugges we all just strive for accuracy as best we can and source our claims.

looking forward to you doing that. It will be a novel change for you.
 
Hi Compus,

While your quoted post is off topic, you might, nonetheless want to consider sourcing your claim of bathtub damage, its nature and extent. Otherwise, you are merely continuing the now well established pattern and practice amongst debunker types to just whistle dixie, as it were, about anything, at any time, in any thread, for whatever purpose.


Why is it off topic? You are a proponent of DEW are you not?
 
Accordingly, the radar data contradicts the ALL43 video.

No, it doesn´t; the NTSB radar data ends some seconds before the actual crash. UA 175 impacted the south tower at ~09:02:59. This is the "official time" from the NIST report (NCSTAR 1-5A Ch. 1-8, p. xlviii), and it can be verified by the time stamp of numerous 9/11 news broadcasts. According to the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory (LDEO), seismic data provide a time of 09:02:57 (cf. NCSTAR 1-5A Ch. 1-8, p. 22). The radar data the NTSB based their measurement on ends at 09:02:40, which is 17-19 seconds earlier.
 
No, it doesn´t; the NTSB radar data ends some seconds before the actual crash. UA 175 impacted the south tower at ~09:02:59. This is the "official time" from the NIST report (NCSTAR 1-5A Ch. 1-8, p. xlviii), and it can be verified by the time stamp of numerous 9/11 news broadcasts. According to the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory (LDEO), seismic data provide a time of 09:02:57 (cf. NCSTAR 1-5A Ch. 1-8, p. 22). The radar data the NTSB based their measurement on ends at 09:02:40, which is 17-19 seconds earlier.

Three sources, three different times. What you have posted simply shows that the data are contradictory. Small wonder. The event was a hoax.

Once again, the NTSB report does not mince words.

Once again, the NTSB report says:

"The airplane impacted the south tower of the World Trade Center at approximately 9:02:40."
The source of the above quote is:

http://www.ntsb.gov/info/Flight_ P...tudy_UA175.pdf

The place where the quote may be found is pg. 2.

Accordingly, the radar data contradicts the ALL43 video, which, in turn, contradict, as you say, Lamont Doherty.

As for what various teevee news shows say about the matter, let me remind you that teevee is not an authoritative source for a darn thing. After all, teevee is where the stupid, bogus videos were shown, right?

Do better
 
wow

... The event was a hoax.

Once again, the NTSB report does not mince words.

Once again, the NTSB report says:

"The airplane impacted the south tower of the World Trade Center at approximately 9:02:40."

Do better
... better? you post delusions

You are using your "jet engine parts are Plymouth Wheel-covers logic" again! This is funny if not sad as you continue the lies of no planes.
"The airplane impacted the south tower of the World Trade Center at approximately 9:02:40."
The problem is you have no idea what approximately means.
 
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Three sources, three different times. What you have posted simply shows that the data are contradictory. Small wonder. The event was a hoax.

Once again, the NTSB report does not mince words.

Once again, the NTSB report says:

"The airplane impacted the south tower of the World Trade Center at approximately 9:02:40."
The source of the above quote is:

http://www.ntsb.gov/info/Flight_ P...tudy_UA175.pdf

The place where the quote may be found is pg. 2.

Now we're getting somewhere. Planes were used.

As for what various teevee news shows say about the matter, let me remind you that teevee is not an authoritative source for a darn thing.

What is teevee? Do you mean television? Why are you spelling it like that? It's just bizarre. On second thought, I won't play dumb. I understand exactly what you're doing by spelling it that way. It's childish and immature, please stop.

After all, teevee is where the stupid, bogus videos were shown, right?

No, that would be yootoob. Err. YouTube.


Do better

You first.
 
Bill,

As I indicated, the Flight 175 simulation of 4min40sec of the supposed Flight 175 flight path, based on using a Boeing simulator and the known data is an excellent piece of data.

The simulation, based on the NTSB flight path and other data confirms the flight path and rate of descent is impossible and the data do not correlate with what is seen in the alleged Flight 175 crash videos.

Let me repeat that:

The simulation, based on the NTSB flight path and other data confirms the flight path and rate of descent is impossible and the data do not correlate with what is seen in the alleged Flight 175 crash videos.
...

Oh - impossible? Wrong.

The video claims a maximum descent rate of 6000ft/min

I found this official Type Acceptance Report for Boeing 767, applicable to New Zealand air space.

http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&sourc...sg=AFQjCNFG2MAaBz2e-mJ0sOPgF7XzY54Fng&cad=rja

On page 8 you find the following interesting passage:

Pax. oxygen system designed to provide for specified descent
profile – Decompression at FL430, linear descent to FL170 in
3 mins., 8 min. hold, linear descent to FL100 in 1 min.

Let's do some math:
FL430 = 43000 feet
FL170 = 17000 feet
FL100 = 10000 feet
FL430, linear descent to FL170 = 26000 feet descent
26000 feet descent in 3 mins. = 8667 ft/min
FL170 linear descent to FL100 in 1 min = 7000 ft/min

So apparently NZ air space regulations, based on Boeing detailed spec, recommends an emergency descent rate of more than 8000 ft/min at high altitude, and 7000 ft/min at medium altitude.

Quite obviously, they would not recommend that if it was impossible or significantly dangerous.
 
Like the Dick Oliver Report, Right Jammy?

let me remind you that teevee is not an authoritative source for a darn thing. After all, teevee is where the stupid, bogus videos were shown, right?

Do better

Yet a television news report was your reason for starting this nonsense to begin with, proving once again you want to have it both ways. :rolleyes: Hypocrite.
 
The only possible reason for keeping this thread going is that lurkers will learn something,and not from Jammy.
 
The crew and passengers of United Airlines Flight 175

On the morning of September 11 2001, United Airlines Flight 175 was flying to Los Angeles from Boston, and was hijacked by Islamic terrorists. Shortly after taking off it was deliberately flown into the South Tower of the World Trade Centre, New York.

There were no survivors.

UNITED AIRLINES FLIGHT 175 PASSENGERS

Ralph Francis Kershaw, 52, was a passenger on Flight 175. He lived in Manchester-by-the-Sea, Massachusetts. Ralph was a marine surveyor, he boarded Flight 175 en route to Singapore, via Los Angeles, to inspect a yacht. Mr Kershaw was highly repected and a leader in his field of work. His expertise was sought worldwide.

Ralph Kershaw left behind a wife of 30 years, Heidi, his daughter Kristin and twin sons, Matthew and Jason.

Ralph was a lifelong passionate player and supporter of basketball. He was instrumental in carrying on the long-standing tradition of Men’s Recreational Basketball in Manchester and contributing to the Manchester Men’s Basketball Scholarship Fund, which has been renamed in his memory.

From www.tournamentoffriends.com:-

tournamentoffriends.com said:
Ralph went through life spreading seeds of knowledge, encouragement and wisdom to everyone he touched. He loved life and lived it through his passion for basketball, boats and family. Ralph Kershaw is a man that will be deeply missed but remembered forever through the inspirations and lessons he left behind.



344914c6aac3eb8514.jpg



Source: HERE HERE

Immutable facts. Unassailable reason.


Compus
 
hi compus,

while your quoted post is off topic, you might, nonetheless want to consider sourcing your claim of bathtub damage, its nature and extent. Otherwise, you are merely continuing the now well established pattern and practice amongst debunker looney bin, grade a nutjob, inside job types to just whistle dixie, as it were, about anything, at any time, in any thread, for whatever purpose.

ftfy
 
Please tell me what part of the graph is not accurate? the dat points of 18000ft, 15000ft 10000ft and 2000ft are are taken directly from the NTSB graph at minute intervals before the graph ends.

Are they wrong? (this a rhetorical question)

The horizontal axis (distance) is taken by assuming a ground speed of 350 MPH which equals about 30000ft per minute. is that wrong? what speed would you like me to use? (more rhetorical questions)

so by graphing one against the other you have a true measure of the angle of descent (dive angle).
I said the figures were approximate (the raw NTSB data could improve accuracy) which is why I was conservative with the ground speed figure so that any error would tend to make the angle greater not less.

This is simple middle school math. You did do math didn't you??????:eek:

so unless you can show me an error in my calculations (always possible:)) then there was no steep dive, now sharp pull up, the graph does end well above the impact height and therefore no possible conflict with the videos

by the way that hand wave was a pathetic one by your standards, do better.:D


hiliting mine.


Sorry, but I have to jump in here.

(caveat: assuming I'm reading your graph correctly)

What you have is not indicative of the dive angle.
It's closer to a depiction of the flight path (in 2 dimensions). Altitude vs distance. So I'll give you angle of descent. Just be aware that dive angle is not the same thing.

The rate of descent of an aircraft is not necessarily the same as it's flight path. Aircraft descend when the lift is less than the weight of the aircraft. The angle of attack at which this occurs depends on speed.



Disclaimer: We all know Jammonius is going to twist my post as evidence that he is right. It is not, and he is still wrong and deluded.
 
"The airplane impacted the south tower of the World Trade Center at approximately 9:02:40."


Jammo, just for you.

Main Entry: 1ap·prox·i·mate
Pronunciation: \ə-ˈpräk-sə-mət\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Late Latin approximatus, past participle of approximare to come near, from Latin ad- + proximare to come near — more at proximate
Date: 15th century

1 : located close together <approximate leaves>
2 : nearly correct or exact <an approximate solution>

— ap·prox·i·mate·ly adverb

my source? http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/approximately
 
hiliting mine.


Sorry, but I have to jump in here.

(caveat: assuming I'm reading your graph correctly)

What you have is not indicative of the dive angle.

Sorry if I got the nomenclature wrong. I have been calling it angle of descent
ie a realistic description of the angle of the flightpath relative to the ground.

i.e. a horizontal flightpath would have a an angle of descent of 0 degrees and a vertical dive, one of 90 degrees. My graph is intended to show that the angle of the flight path from 18000 feet was approximately (now you know what that word means Jammo :)) was about 25 degrees from the horizontal.

If "dive angle" is the wrong words for that then I apologize for that error.



Disclaimer: We all know Jammonius is going to twist my post as evidence that he is right. It is not, and he is still wrong and deluded.

Yep......we could almost write his comments for him as they have become so predictable.
 
The rate of descent of an aircraft is not necessarily the same as it's flight path. Aircraft descend when the lift is less than the weight of the aircraft. The angle of attack at which this occurs depends on speed.


Ah I get it! the angle of the plane to the ground is not necessarily the angle of the flightpath. Am I right in thinking the angle of the aircraft when pulling out of a dive would normally be flatter than that of the flightpath? So one could have a 25 degree flightpath but say a 20 or 15 degree dive angle? ie the plane could look to be almost level or even nose up when in fact it is still descending (as in "flaring" when they land)?
 
Oh - impossible? Wrong.

The video claims a maximum descent rate of 6000ft/min

I found this official Type Acceptance Report for Boeing 767, applicable to New Zealand air space.

http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&sourc...sg=AFQjCNFG2MAaBz2e-mJ0sOPgF7XzY54Fng&cad=rja

On page 8 you find the following interesting passage:



Let's do some math:
FL430 = 43000 feet
FL170 = 17000 feet
FL100 = 10000 feet
FL430, linear descent to FL170 = 26000 feet descent
26000 feet descent in 3 mins. = 8667 ft/min
FL170 linear descent to FL100 in 1 min = 7000 ft/min

So apparently NZ air space regulations, based on Boeing detailed spec, recommends an emergency descent rate of more than 8000 ft/min at high altitude, and 7000 ft/min at medium altitude.

Quite obviously, they would not recommend that if it was impossible or significantly dangerous.

Great post.
 
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