Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[joobz]

Thanks for posting that Robo Timbo, much ado about nothing, I simply took a portion of a post and responded to a portion of it, who hasn't done that. And this Elizabeth 1 and Elizabeth I thing shows a desperation to find anything on me. It was simply me writing her name from memory.

I was going to unblock Aberhaten on Sept 1, but because of his desperate attempt to attack and discredit me behind my back I will unblock him Sept 15. I have a feeling his bitter emotional personal attacks will continue, but I will give him the benefit of any doubt on Sept 15. If something like this happens again it will be Oct 15 before I unblock him if not later. Who knows though he might liked being blocked because then he doesn't have to worry as much about a response.

I've noticed that you still have yet to comment on Thomas Arnold's reliability.
I think Akhenaten's critique of you is much more cutting that you may wish.

 

[John Jones]

...
I was going to unblock Aberhaten on Sept 1, but because of his desperate attempt to attack and discredit me behind my back I will unblock him Sept 15


...

That will teach Aberhaten a lesson he'll never forget!


Who is Aberhaten?

 

[paximperium]

That will teach Aberhaten a lesson he'll never forget!


Who is Aberhaten?

A friend of Jebus?

 

[DOC]

Bringing up Josephus's references to Jesus is problematic on any number of fronts.

First, Josephus wasn't a contemporary of Jesus, so his writings are based on "hearsay"...

So are you saying the prolific historic writer Josephus should not have written anything unless he personally witnessed it.

Well known historian Shelby Foote never witnessed the Civil War but that didn't stop him from writing a 2 volume book on it and be interviewed on PBS as an expert on it.

 

[paximperium]

So are you saying the prolific historic writer Josephus should not have written anything unless he personally witnessed it.

He can write about it.
What are his citations?

Well known historian Shelby Foote never witnessed the Civil War but that didn't stop him from writing a 2 volume book on it and be interviewed on PBS as an expert on it.

What are his citations?

 

[paximperium]

So DOC do you have anyone who actually witnessed this Jesus fella who wrote anything down yet?

 

[joobz]

So are you saying the prolific historic writer Josephus should not have written anything unless he personally witnessed it.

Well known historian Shelby Foote never witnessed the Civil War but that didn't stop him from writing a 2 volume book on it and be interviewed on PBS as an expert on it.

He can write about it.
What are his citations?
What are his citations?

I don't know if you have Pax on ignore, but he asked exactly what I wanted to ask.

 

[John Jones]

So are you saying the prolific historic writer Josephus should not have written anything unless he personally witnessed it.

Well known historian Shelby Foote never witnessed the Civil War but that didn't stop him from writing a 2 volume book on it and be interviewed on PBS as an expert on it.

There is plenty of corroborating evidence and eyewitness testimony that the US Civil war actually took place.

The resurrection of Lazarus, Jesus, and all those resurrected dead mentioned in Matthew - not so much.

Nice try. Better luck next time.

 

[DOC]

I've noticed that you still have yet to comment on Thomas Arnold's reliability...

It's ridiculous to think that being a Christian means you can be not be objective in your field of study.

A Conservative Republican physician can examine Barack Obama and be totally objective about his physical condition even though he might strongly disagree with his politics.

So when Oxford Professor Thomas Arnold says this-

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=3337739#post3337739

-there is no reason he can't absolutely mean it from an objective historian viewpoint.

Remember the over 5000 Christian manuscripts compared to 7 for Plato. And the 40 written sources (31 Christian + 9 non-Christian) for the life of Christ compared to 10 written sources (9 non-Christian + 1 Christian) for the life of Tiberius Caesar (emperor during the time of Christ).

 

[paximperium]

Remember the over 5000 Christian manuscripts compared to 7 for Plato. And the 40 written sources (31 Christian + 9 non-Christian) for the life of Christ compared to 10 written sources (9 non-Christian + 1 Christian) for the life of Tiberius Caesar (emperor during the time of Christ).

Any of these 5000 stories were written during the lifetime of Jebus?
Written by eyewitnesses?

Any of them?

 

[RoboTimbo]

It's ridiculous to think that being a Christian means you can be not be objective in your field of study.

Do you agree that it would be despicable for someone to be that way?

 

[joobz]

It's ridiculous to think that being a Christian means you can be not be objective in your field of study.

...
-there is no reason he can't absolutely mean it from an objective historian viewpoint.

actually there's a very good reason he can't be objective. He admitted that he would rather have his son believe lies (the sun revolves around the earth) and be christian than know the truth and risk being a jew.

DO you agree with his view?

 

[John Jones]

It's ridiculous to think that being a Christian means you can be not be objective in your field of study.

Yet here you are -- personifying that very idea thread after thread.

 

[DC]

has this already been posted?

http://www.jpost.com/LocalIsrael/AroundIsrael/Article.aspx?id=182725

 

[Gandalfs Beard]

So are you saying the prolific historic writer Josephus should not have written anything unless he personally witnessed it.

Well known historian Shelby Foote never witnessed the Civil War but that didn't stop him from writing a 2 volume book on it and be interviewed on PBS as an expert on it.

As usual, your penchant for only quoting small snippets from a post (which does occasionally have its place) undercuts the ACTUAL context of the point being made; as surely as Shirley Sherrod was smeared by Breitbart's and Fox "News'" antics.

The point being made was that the writings allegedly based on Josephus' works only date back to the 11th century Christian Monk Scribes, and that even if Josephus had written those very words, he didn't have the Extraordinary Evidence to back up the Extraordinary Claims of Jesus' resurrection.

The very same can be said for Professor Thomas Arnold. As good as the rest of his work may have been, his claims for Jesus' Divinity and Resurrection are likewise unsupported by the necessary evidence.

And by the way DOC, putting someone on your ignore list is a tacit admission that you have lost the argument. Akhenaten Wins by default.

GB

 

[Elizabeth I]

Thanks for posting that Robo Timbo.

See how quoting only part of a post can dishonestly give a wrong impression of what the entire post meant?

I was going to unblock Akhenaten on Sept 1, but because of his desperate attempt to attack and discredit me behind my back I will unblock him Sept 15. I have a feeling his bitter emotional personal attacks will continue, but I will give him the benefit of any doubt on Sept 15. If something like this happens again it will be Oct 15 before I unblock him if not later.

I'm sure the Pharoah's pillow is soggy, simply soggy, with his tears.

Who knows though he might liked being blocked because then he doesn't have to worry as much about a response.

I don't think your responses worry him much. His posts seem to worry you, though, since you haven't addressed a single one of his points despite all of us being nice enough to quote them for you so you don't miss anything.

 

[zooterkin]

Thanks for posting that Robo Timbo, much ado about nothing, I simply took a portion of a post and responded to a portion of it, who hasn't done that. And this Elizabeth 1 and Elizabeth I thing shows a desperation to find anything on me. It was simply me writing her name from memory.

Well, part of the problem is that you attributed words to her that she didn't say. As for doing things from memory, that's a feeble excuse since firstly, you could use the forum software to take care of that, and secondly, if you still can't be bothered to do that, it's right there in front of you on the screen anyway.

I was going to unblock Akhenaten on Sept 1, but because of his desperate attempt to attack and discredit me behind my back I will unblock him Sept 15.

Behind your back?? Exactly how dishonest can you be? Do you think putting him on ignore places some obligation on him to ignore your nonsense and refrain from pointing out the absurdities? He is not discrediting you (you need no help with that) but what you post.

I have a feeling his bitter emotional personal attacks will continue, but I will give him the benefit of any doubt on Sept 15. If something like this happens again it will be Oct 15 before I unblock him if not later. Who knows though he might liked being blocked because then he doesn't have to worry as much about a response.

 

[Akhenaten]

This thread, in about a month, will be two years old.

Though I have to admire Doc's stick-to-it-iveness, hos many atheists do you think you have converted, Doc?

Akhenaten has the chart somewhere, although the results aren't encouraging for Doc's case.

Although, I do have to wonder what he's really here for. If he were honestly here for proselytization, he would be using the feedback in this thread to refine his arguments for better effectiveness on nonbelievers. Anybody who is competetent in that pursuit knows that you have to be able to see the situation from the other person's perspective.

I'm guessing it's just boredom, with a pinch of masochism. Which is probably why I'm participating, come to think of it.

- Scott

This chart was prepared in October, 2009. I'll do an updated one for the thread's birthday, but I can assure you in advance that there are no additions to the list of convincees.

 

[zooterkin]

This thread, in about a month, will be two years old.

Though I have to admire Doc's stick-to-it-iveness, hos many atheists do you think you have converted, Doc?

Akhenaten has the chart somewhere, although the results aren't encouraging for Doc's case.

Although, I do have to wonder what he's really here for. If he were honestly here for proselytization, he would be using the feedback in this thread to refine his arguments for better effectiveness on nonbelievers. Anybody who is competetent in that pursuit knows that you have to be able to see the situation from the other person's perspective.

I'm guessing it's just boredom, with a pinch of masochism. Which is probably why I'm participating, come to think of it.

- Scott

This chart was prepared in October, 2009. I'll do an updated one for the thread's birthday, but I can assure you in advance that there are no additions to the list of convincees.

QFD

 

[Akhenaten]

Thanks for posting that Robo Timbo, much ado about nothing, I simply took a portion of a post and responded to a portion of it, who hasn't done that.

Despite your oft-quoted (albeit modest) post count, it seems that honest debate, the quote function and question marks still remain beyond your mastery. How sad is that?

And this Elizabeth 1 and Elizabeth I thing shows a desperation to find anything on me. It was simply me writing her name from memory.

It shows that rather than use the quote function to ensure that you're responding to what you're claiming to be responding to, you prefer to wing it. You make mistakes when you do this which could quite easily be construed as dishonestly altering quoted material.

Desperation, DOC? There is indeed a whiff of it in the air.

I was going to unblock Aberhaten on Sept 1, but because of his desperate attempt to attack and discredit me behind my back I will unblock him Sept 15.

This Aberhaten fellow sounds like quite a scoundrel. Any chance of a link so I can read the words of this desperado for myself?

I have a feeling his bitter emotional personal attacks will continue, but I will give him the benefit of any doubt on Sept 15. If something like this happens again it will be Oct 15 before I unblock him if not later.

Instead of chattering about big, bad Aberhaten and how you're going to make his life a complete misery why don't you try presenting some evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth?

You wouldn't want to be infracted for being off-topic again, now would you?

Who knows though he might liked being blocked because then he doesn't have to worry as much about a response.

I can't speak for Aberhaten, but my guess is that you've stumbled onto the truth there. It's almost as if he's posting for the benefit of the other readers, and cares not one jot or tittle whether you read his posts or not.

Having realised this though, DOC, it makes me wonder why you seek to further serve Aberhaten's purpose by extending the time during which he will be able to post in accordance with his own evil agenda, free from the restriction of your incisive denunciations. Are you sure this is a winning tactic?