Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Charlie Wilkes]

I'm sure many people have been in this situation: you can't find your cell phone so you use the house phone to call your phone then follow the ring.

Amanda writes in her email back home that she was so panicked about Meredith she was pounding on the door and screaming her name. Why the heck didn't she just call her phones again and listen outside the door for the ring?

Good question. If she wanted to establish an alibi, she could have called the phones while at the cottage and told the police, "I was standing outside the door, listening to hear if the phone would ring, and when I didn't hear it, I assumed Meredith must be somewhere else." But, she didn't.

Better still, she could have gone on her day trip with Raffaele and stayed away from the crime scene and not tried to call anyone. But, she didn't.

But the best idea of all would have been to avoid getting involved in the murder in the first place, seeing as how she had no motive and nothing to gain but the certainty of a big hassle. That's what I think she did.

 

[Kestrel]

I'm sure many people have been in this situation: you can't find your cell phone so you use the house phone to call your phone then follow the ring.

Amanda writes in her email back home that she was so panicked about Meredith she was pounding on the door and screaming her name. Why the heck didn't she just call her phones again and listen outside the door for the ring?

If Amanda was worried about finding Meredith's cell phone instead of finding Meredith, that might make sense.

 

[RoseMontague]

My opinion is that Qunitavalle was certain that Knox was guilty and felt that telling a story to assure she was convicted was the right thing to do.

I think that is probably how he justifies the false testimony. Frank's non-interview with him is telling, in my opinion. It is funny how in court he had such a hard time remembering he did an interview about his "story". Did they ask him how much he had been paid for that interview?

 

[Matthew Best]

Amanda writes in her email back home that she was so panicked about Meredith she was pounding on the door and screaming her name. Why the heck didn't she just call her phones again and listen outside the door for the ring?

I don't know, why don't you explain why you think she didn't do what you describe? Is it because she's a murderer?

 

[Justinian2]

I'm trying to get together small quotes that best summarize the case.
Any help?

The kitchen knife that was allegedly the second murder weapon had DNA that was "too low to be used" according to the test machine. MII pg 195. These results were used anyway and probably pivotal in the case.

I'll keep adding to the colection.

 

[LondonJohn]

I can't find the blizzard of national/international media coverage and analysis of the Massei report translation. Is my "Google News" not working properly?

 

[Chris C]

I'm sure many people have been in this situation: you can't find your cell phone so you use the house phone to call your phone then follow the ring.

Amanda writes in her email back home that she was so panicked about Meredith she was pounding on the door and screaming her name. Why the heck didn't she just call her phones again and listen outside the door for the ring?

One phone went straight to voice mail. After they found the 2nd phone, instead of answering hey turned it off. That phone went to voice mail the 2nd time Amanda called it. So if both phones went to voice mail after she called them, whats the purpose of calling them.

 

[Malkmus]

I'm sure many people have been in this situation: you can't find your cell phone so you use the house phone to call your phone then follow the ring.

Amanda writes in her email back home that she was so panicked about Meredith she was pounding on the door and screaming her name. Why the heck didn't she just call her phones again and listen outside the door for the ring?

Amanda's email indicates that she figured Meredith was in the bedroom since it was locked. When Meredith didn't answer her calling her name out, she and Raf tried to break down the door. When that didn't work they called Raf's sister, a carabinieri officer, who told him to call 112, which he immediately did. I don't see any problems with this scenario, and just because you would have called her phones while standing outside the door for extra confirmation doesn't mean everyone else would have. To Amanda and Raf, the locked door, the unusual state of the cottage, and Meredith's lack of response to calls was enough assessment to determine that Meredith might very likely be in her room and in some state of distress. It's also worth noting that no one else thought to do what you're suggesting in the moment before Luca kicked down the door.

 

[Justinian2]

I'm trying to get together small quotes that best summarize the case.
Any help?

The kitchen knife that was allegedly the second murder weapon had DNA that was "too low to be used" according to the test machine. MII pg 195. These results were used anyway and probably pivotal in the case.

I'll keep adding to the colection.

The knife was taken by Inspector Finzi (Chief Inspector Jacques Clouseau), who testified that he had clean,new gloves and that, having opened the drawer where the tableware was kept, the first thing he saw was a large knife that was extremely clean. There were other
knives in the drawer, but he took [only] this one, which became Exhibit 36. Massi translation (pg 264)

picture of Clouseau



upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/Sellers_pinkpanther7.jpg

 

[Dan O.]

It's also worth noting that no one else thought to do what you're suggesting in the moment before Luca kicked down the door.

Somehow I think the postal police would know enough about the way phones work to know that calling the phones at that time would not reveal any useful information.

 

[LondonJohn]

Four questions:

1) Was there any evidence at all that any mopping took place within the girls' house following the murder? Wouldn't the Luminol test have revealed any telltale mopping marks, if indeed a mop have been used to clean up blood spillage?

2) Was the mop/bucket located outside the girls' house at lunchtime on 2 November positively identified as the mop/bucket that came from the girls' house? I am presuming that the other girls or the landlord could/would have identified the mop and bucket, but my assumption might be wrong of course.

3) If the mop/bucket from Sollecito's inventory were missing after the murder, was it ever insinuated that they had anything to do with any clean-up? And, if so, why would Sollecito have been comfortable disposing of these items but not the "murder knife"?

4) Could an expert on the case make a fundamental mix-up on dates, to confuse a pizza receipt from Sunday 4 November with the vigil for Meredith held on Monday 5 November? Wouldn't this be a fairly basic error?

 

[Dan O.]

Why the heck didn't she just call her phones again and listen outside the door for the ring?

Please describe the calls that Amanda had already made to Meredith's cell phones that morning, where Amanda was at the time she made the calls and what indications she would have gotten from the calls. Perhaps when you've done this you will be able to answer your own question.

 

[Alt+F4]

Amanda's email indicates that she figured Meredith was in the bedroom since it was locked.

Wrong. Amanda's understanding was that Meredith locked her door when she was out, not in.

When Meredith didn't answer her calling her name out, she and Raf tried to break down the door.

Wrong. Amanda herself made no effort to break down the door.

...just because you would have called her phones while standing outside the door for extra confirmation doesn't mean everyone else would have.

Wrong. Most people would have had that common sense.

It's also worth noting that no one else thought to do what you're suggesting in the moment before Luca kicked down the door.

So why did he have it?

 

[Alt+F4]

One phone went straight to voice mail. After they found the 2nd phone, instead of answering hey turned it off. That phone went to voice mail the 2nd time Amanda called it. So if both phones went to voice mail after she called them, whats the purpose of calling them.

Because they might not stay on voice mail? If Amanda was (as she said in her email) in a state of "panic" to the extreme that she was:

1) pounding on her door
2) yelling her name
3) looking through her keyhole
4) leaning over another window trying to look into her room

Amanda did all this but didn't bother to call again? Give me a break. I would have called both phones non-stop and Chris, you know you would have too.

 

[Alt+F4]

If Amanda was worried about finding Meredith's cell phone instead of finding Meredith, that might make sense.

Why would Meredith be without her cells phones? Find the cell phones, find Meredith. Sorry, but most people, especially younger adults, don't go anywhere without their phones. Meredith's 8:56 call to her mom shows she didn't go out without her phones.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

I can't find the blizzard of national/international media coverage and analysis of the Massei report translation. Is my "Google News" not working properly?

Let's be fair - for those of us who are following the case closely but don't know the Italian language, this is an immensely useful document. In my opinion, it exposes the absolute folly of the verdict. Massei has rejected the best evidence regarding the time of Meredith's death. After speculating wildly about every aspect of Amanda's phone usage, he completely ignores the question of why Meredith made no further effort to contact her mother after the 8:56 attempt. His theory about the 10 pm activity on Meredith's phone is laughable, as is his notion that Amanda was carrying a big kitchen knife for protection on the street. He asserts that the luminol footprints were made with blood even though every one of them tested negative for blood. If that's not a clear pattern of bias, I don't know what is. But these problems have nothing to do with the quality of the translation, and it is because we now have a good translation that we are able to dissect and discuss them.

 

[Alt+F4]

If she wanted to establish an alibi, she could have called the phones while at the cottage and told the police, "I was standing outside the door, listening to hear if the phone would ring, and when I didn't hear it, I assumed Meredith must be somewhere else." But, she didn't.

How could she have done that without the authorities eventually knowing it was a lie?

Better still, she could have gone on her day trip with Raffaele and stayed away from the crime scene and not tried to call anyone. But, she didn't.

Yeah, about the day trip. Why didn't it happen way before Amanda said she first went back to the apartment? Heading off after 11 for a day trip a few hours away seems late considereing it was a holiday and the buses were probably infrequent.

But the best idea of all would have been to avoid getting involved in the murder in the first place, seeing as how she had no motive and nothing to gain but the certainty of a big hassle. That's what I think she did.

They wanted to control the situation.

 

[Alt+F4]

I think that is probably how he justifies the false testimony. Frank's non-interview with him is telling, in my opinion. It is funny how in court he had such a hard time remembering he did an interview about his "story". Did they ask him how much he had been paid for that interview?

Good question Rose, but I must add, has anyone asked Frank how much he has been paid for his "reporting"?

 

[Malkmus]

Wrong. Amanda's understanding was that Meredith locked her door when she was out, not in.

Now, you're contradicting yourself. You can't point out Amanda's attempts to contact Meredith through the door and see into her bedroom, then state that she assumed Meredith was just out somewhere.

Wrong. Amanda herself made no effort to break down the door.

Oh, you got me! I guess this changes everything!
Raf tried himself and was able to "crack" it. When Luca tried a bit later he was successful, perhaps aided by the fact that it was the second attempt and it had already been cracked. But this goes back to your previous comment. If Amanda just figured Meredith was out, wouldn't she have told Raf this instead of having him damage the door?

Wrong. Most people would have had that common sense.

So what does it mean that the postal police, Luca, Paola, Filomena and Marco all didn't think to do this before breaking down the door? What if they had called and they heard no ring? Would everyone just have walked away? I guess in your book it's only Amanda that lacks common sense even if no one else thought to "do what Alt+f4 would do". Come on now.

So why did he have it?

Have what? Please clarify.

 

[Malkmus]

Yeah, about the day trip. Why didn't it happen way before Amanda said she first went back to the apartment? Heading off after 11 for a day trip a few hours away seems late considereing it was a holiday and the buses were probably infrequent.

Uh, because college kids like to sleep in maybe? If they had headed out at 9 AM you'd be stating that they're early departure was suspicious behavior as well. That they had committed murder and wanted to be as far away as possible when the body discovered. I'm 31 years old and it's still tough to get my butt out of bed before 11 when I don't have to be at work that day.