Merged Two Mosques to be built near Ground Zero

Hlafordlaes said:
I would classify as sect any religious belief that does not allow for long-term, peaceful coexistence with non-believers, and does not allow its members to freely and without reprisal abandon the faith unconditionally. While a healthy democracy requires us to be open-minded and accepting of major differences, I see no contradiction in being intolerant of an aggressive sect, such as Islam, that openly preaches the antithesis of the cherished ideals that underlie democracy.
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islam5.jpg
 
A long time lurker speaks:

Seems to me we have a choice between 1) leading by example, and 2) debasing ourselves by adopting the tactics and rhetoric of the vile pieces of excrement that perpetrated the 9-11 attacks. I do have a problem Islam. Among the current major religions, it appears to be disproportionately violent, but this is a topic for another discussion, and more importantly, is irrelevant to the question at hand.

In an ideal America, we would practice what we preach and all faiths (as idiotic as they might be) would be treated equally. The decision to allow a mosque in a given location should be subject to the exact same rules as the decision to allow any other religious facility.

Everyone deserves justice. In the case of the 9/11 attacks, the guilty deserve to rot forever in prison and the innocent - even those that were jumping around being *******s celebrating the attacks, or are planning to open their facility on 9/11 - justly deserve equal rights until they forfeit them by the rule of law.

Call me naive, but this is why I love this country, and this is what I want my country to be. We should do what is right, not what makes us comfortable or allows us to gratify our vengeance.
 
Hlafordlaes said:
Not only would I say "no mosque at ground zero," but also no protection under the law as religion of any teaching that does not allow, indeed forbids, peaceful coexistence with nonbelievers. The right to freedom of religion (conscience) must be understood as equally guaranteeing freedom *from* religious coercion.
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Do you deny that there are millions of Muslims in America that peacefully coexist with their non-Muslim neighbors? If not, how do you reconcile this fact with the rest of your post?
 
bikerdruid said:
agreed.
maybe we can come up with some pics of a bloody corpse of an abortion clinic worker blown up by christians....
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yes. lets all post some pics of the children murdered at OKC, by a right-wing, gun loving Conservative Christian.
 
Myshkin said:
Seems to me we have a choice between 1) leading by example, and 2) debasing ourselves by adopting the tactics and rhetoric of the vile pieces of excrement that perpetrated the 9-11 attacks. I do have a problem Islam. Among the current major religions, it appears to be disproportionately violent, but this is a topic for another discussion, and more importantly, is irrelevant to the question at hand.

In an ideal America, we would practice what we preach and all faiths (as idiotic as they might be) would be treated equally. The decision to allow a mosque in a given location should be subject to the exact same rules as the decision to allow any other religious facility.

Everyone deserves justice. In the case of the 9/11 attacks, the guilty deserve to rot forever in prison and the innocent - even those that were jumping around being *******s celebrating the attacks, or are planning to open their facility on 9/11 - justly deserve equal rights until they forfeit them by the rule of law.

Call me naive, but this is why I love this country, and this is what I want my country to be. We should do what is right, not what makes us comfortable or allows us to gratify our vengeance.
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Damn straight. As Jon Stewart said, “If you don't stick to your principles when the chips are down, they're not principles… they're hobbies.”
 
There is a strip club one and half blocks from the hallowed ground at zero. I wonder why none of the christian or jewish groups complain about that.

I assume that their view is that in christian terms a house of degradation is better than a house of worship of a competing religion.
 
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GreNME said:
[qimg]http://image.grenme.com/thread/islam5.jpg[/qimg]
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I really don't see why this picture got the replies it did by a few folks, come on guys really how can you possibly compare it too pics of a bloody corpse of an abortion clinic worker ?
 
TheDevilCried said:
I really don't see why this picture got the replies it did by a few folks, come on guys really how can you possibly compare it too pics of a bloody corpse of an abortion clinic worker ?
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easily. both pics would be meant to shock and appeal to the emotions of the onlooker.

one would seek to associate all Christians with abortion-clinic bombers, the other to associate all Muslims with the terrorists of 9-11.
 
I'll be honest, listening to some of the rhetoric against the Mosque is a bit frightening.

I hear echos of 1936. I really do. It truly shocks me that soo many Americans could have such a poor commitment to freedom, equality, and tolerance.

If anything, you would think that out of ALL Americans, New Yorkers would be the most extreme on this issue. And yet we are not.

We aren't talking about face covering burqas or Sharia law or allowing Muslim cabdrivers refuse folks carrying alchohol. We are simply talking about the building of a Muslim house of worship, by moderate Muslims.

Nazi Germany guys, read about it. Read about how it started and where it ended up.
 
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I don't know why you are so shocked or taking it too hard cause in time it will all fade away, hey ! look at how much folks get riled up with sports right, it's just currant news right now and needs to be addressed so we all know we ain't alone and others feel as we do no matter what there stand on the subject, it's just human nature, in the end no one of us has a say all we can do is shout out what we feel hopefully in a civil manner.
 
TheDevilCried said:
I don't know why you are so shocked or taking it too hard cause in time it will all fade away, .
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this is what they said about the Nazis, in 1933.

TheDevilCried said:
hey ! look at how much folks get riled up with sports right, it's just currant news right now and needs to be addressed so we all know we ain't alone and others feel as we do no matter what there stand on the subject, it's just human nature, in the end no one of us has a say all we can do is shout out what we feel hopefully in a civil manner.
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that's until the harrassing phone calls to the homes of construction workers start.

that's until the eggs start getting thrown.

that's until the midnight firebombs are tossed.

this is our 1933 moment, and I pray we do what is right.
 
There you go with the Nazis again, that was another country and another time . . . . . as for the rest of the post thats a prediction and total speculation on your part and something i see as really looking down on the American people as a whole.
 
TheDevilCried said:
There you go with the Nazis again, that was another country and another time . . . . . as for the rest of the post thats a prediction and total speculation on your part and something i see as really looking down on the American people as a whole.
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Germany between 1919 and 1933 was a functioning democracy, with many liberal-progressives leading the charge.

They had a working constitution which guarunteed freedom and civil rights for all citizens.

Not too unlike, the USA.

Double-dip recession, unemployment hitting 12%, Muslims building a big Mosque near GZ, could be a recipe for a catastrophe.
 
I got more faith in my fellow Americans than you do i guess, i don't think the building will cause any panic or bring every day things to a screaming halt, we will forge on and deal with it as needed, it won't effect my way of life at all, it will just make me a little bit sad that some will give into yet another screaming religion that crys foul
 
TheDevilCried said:
I got more faith in my fellow Americans than you do i guess,
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in 1863, the Irish decided that it was not fare that there was a draft and rich folks could buy out of it.

so they rioted throughout NYC for days, murdering THOUSANDS of blacks.

in 1941, the USA put hundreds of thousands of innocent Japanese Americans into interment camps, and took away their property.

up until the 1970s, it was pretty much legal to lynch a black man who dared to look at a white woman.

yes, perhaps you do have more faith in the American people than I.
 
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