• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Obama Ramadanadingdong

groupthinker said:
You guys know that fundamental muslims don't give a crap about the US constitution. They are just taking advantage of our weakness and are probably laughing at us all the way to the mosque. We need a stronger president... but I know most of you will probably disagree so carry on.
Click to expand...
By "stronger", do you mean more fundamentalist right wing?

If not, then nominate two things a "stronger" President would do with respect to Islam.
 
groupthinker said:
You guys know that fundamental muslims don't give a crap about the US constitution. They are just taking advantage of our weakness and are probably laughing at us all the way to the mosque.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right about that. The Constitutionally-guaranteed openness of the U.S. is a weakness when it comes to rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth psychopaths with a grudge against the U.S. (and to you, apparently).

But to everyone else, including non-fundie muslims, America's openness is its greatest strength, and since "everyone else" outnumbers rabid psychopaths by about a million to one, it would be rather stupid to ignore the Constitution just because of a perverse few.

groupthinker said:
We need a stronger president...
Click to expand...

No, the U.S. needs fewer bigots who fan the flames of hatred even higher by condemning whole groups for the actions of a few.

groupthinker said:
but I know most of you will probably disagree so carry on.
Click to expand...

Right again. It's reassuring to know you're in the minority.
 
BeAChooser said:
You don't think the language Obama used was forceful?
Click to expand...
Yes, his language was forceful. Too bad he didn't say what you're claiming he said.

His support of the project certainly wasn't tepid. So how would you characterize it?
Click to expand...
He seems to have said that religious freedom in this country is a keeper. He did not say he thinks that the mosque MUST be built.

Oh ... and by the way ... did you notice that Fox News was only reposting an ASSOCIATED PRESS article ... that wasn't even their language.
Click to expand...
The photograph says AP but the caption could be Fox's. The article itself has no byline that would indicate it's merely an AP feed. Do you have any support for your conclusion?

Now you're not claiming that the AP is on the same side of the political aisle as Fox News, are you? Because that really would deserve a roll of the eyes. :D
Click to expand...
As you haven't established that the quote you gave us is from AP, we could presume that the caption on that picture was just another calculated misrepresentation of fact from Fox News. If not, shame on AP. Obama's comments were not forcefully behind the building of any one mosque.
 
It's at least possible that the location of the proposed mosque is not just coincidence, that it will be a symbol for Islam. I don't claim to know, but we will all find out eventually.
 
Marcus said:
It's at least possible that the location of the proposed mosque is not just coincidence, that it will be a symbol for Islam. I don't claim to know, but we will all find out eventually.
Click to expand...

That statement carries all the weight of "It's at least possible that the moon landings were faked"
 
Tumblehome said:
You're absolutely right about that. The Constitutionally-guaranteed openness of the U.S. is a weakness when it comes to rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth psychopaths with a grudge against the U.S. (and to you, apparently).

But to everyone else, including non-fundie muslims, America's openness is its greatest strength, and since "everyone else" outnumbers rabid psychopaths by about a million to one, it would be rather stupid to ignore the Constitution just because of a perverse few.



No, the U.S. needs fewer bigots who fan the flames of hatred even higher by condemning whole groups for the actions of a few.



Right again. It's reassuring to know you're in the minority.
Click to expand...

well said.

It's telling, groupthinker, that you are willing to violate the constitution and give up our religious freedoms the second things get tough and you feel scared. I must have missed the clause in the constitution when it says, "abide by this document only when it is convenient for you to do so."

Frankly, having lived once in the south, I'm way more wary of Christian conservatives in this country than Muslims. Christian conservatives were constantly trying to change laws to try and force me to follow their religious beliefs (seeking to force Christian prayer in school, teach creationism, ban homosexuality, pornography, anything that violated Christian beliefs, etc). And there's a lot more of them with a lot more power in this country than Muslims. Though I certainly don't disagree that fundamentalism in general is a dangerous thing when it comes to any religious belief, and that includes Islam. In Amsterdam, I lived blocks away from the spot where director Theo van Gogh was stabbed to death for criticizing Islam in a film. But again, the constitution isn't a document of convenience. And all Muslims aren't fundamentalists. Without direct evidence to the contrary, I have no particular reason to think this Mosque is being built to be provocative. And frankly, even if it WAS, that still doesn't somehow negate their right to build it.

When I was a Catholic in the south, regularly I would have to go to church with a southern Baptist hate group standing nearby on the street screaming at me that I was going to Hell for being a Catholic idolator. This was intentionally provocative, and it upset me, but it was still their right to do so. The price you pay for living in a country with freedom of religion and speech is that you just have to learn to live with people who offend you.
 
Last edited:
After looking for a long time for something positive to say about this thread, I have finally found it. The next time DOC whines about how JREF picks on the Christians but gives all other religions a pass, I will cite this thread's title.
 
Bill of Rights said:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof....
Click to expand...

...isn't that what Obama essentially said?
 
You know what I find particularly amusing about this thread?

Based on BAC and groupthinker's posting history here, I find that they have far more in common with fundamentalist Muslims than the moderate Muslims I know. They agree with so many things that fundamentalist Muslims believe in : hatred of liberals, hatred of people who think differently than themselves, religious intolerance, believing that theocratic rule and instruction should trump individual liberties and science, etc.

I know for a fact that there are freedoms BAC and GT do not believe I should have, because they have said here on JREF that I should not have them, that moderate Muslim friends of mine would NEVER agree with but fundamentalists would agree with wholeheartedly.
 
Last edited:
If you ask me, the fact that the US allows a mosque that close to Ground Zero is one hell of a testament to the liberties the nation holds so dear. I'd be more concerned if the Muslims were not allowed to build within X metres of the site.
 
BeAChooser said:
Do you lack a browser?

http://hosted2.ap.org/ARLID/1e38c7a...que-Obama/id-63feeacf689f44e095e77c633845b6ae
Click to expand...

Do you lack reading abilities? By having to post the original AP article, you've acknowledged that the Fox link was NOT the original AP story. It was Fox's. I guess you didn't even note that that accompanying photos were different.

As far as the statement you quoted, it does seem to have come from AP. Shame on them. It does not reflect what Obama said, not according to the direct quotes.

Anyway, you can be as upset as you want. It's your right. The mere fact that people like me enjoy it when you twist yourself up in knots shouldn't deter you at all.
 
Let's take away the opinions, emotions and analysis of the news and just get to the quote itself.

POTUS said:
"As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country.
"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable.
"Our capacity to show not merely tolerance, but respect towards those who are different from us — and that way of life, that quintessentially American creed, stands in stark contrast to the nihilism of those who attacked us on that September morning, and who continue to plot against us today. But time and again, the American people have demonstrated that we can work through these issues, and stay true to our core values and emerge stronger for it. So it must be and will be today."
Click to expand...

This is taken directly from the article that Be A Chooser posted.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom