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Who started both World Wars?

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9/11-investigator said:
There were 8 years between 1933 and 1941. That should have been more than enough time to design a proper tank if the invasion of Russia had been planned all along.
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And when did Hitler learn that he would have to fight a winter war in Russia? 1933? No. 1934? No. 1935? No. 1936? No. 1937? No. 1938? No? 1939? No. 1940? No. Closes up your window a bit.
 
dafydd said:
If someone competent had been in charge of the Luftwaffe instead of a fat morphine addict,would the supplies have got through?
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Goering was undoubtedly a disaster as the head of the Luftwaffe. However, if your draft horses are keeling over dead from the cold, Russan airpower is the least of your supply worries. In terms of supplying forces by aircraft rather than by road or rail, it is a rather costly way of doing it when it comes to the fuel required.


9/11-investigator said:
You can accuse the Germans of a lot of things, but not of stupidity.
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You mean having a modern, mechanized army which was mostly supplied by horse-drawn carts isn't stupidity?
 
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Gawdzilla said:
And when did Hitler learn that he would have to fight a winter war in Russia? 1933? No. 1934? No. 1935? No. 1936? No. 1937? No. 1938? No? 1939? No. 1940? No. Closes up your window a bit.
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In a meeting with his leading generals and admirals on 3 February 1933 Hitler spoke of "conquest of Lebensraum in the East and its ruthless Germanisation" as his ultimate foreign policy objectives. In March 1933, the first major statement of German foreign policy aims appeared with the memo submitted to the German Cabinet by the State Secretary at the Auswärtiges Amt (Foreign Office), Prince Bernhard von Bülow (not to be confused with his more famous uncle, the former Chancellor Bernhard von Bülow), which advocated Anschluss with Austria, the restoration of the frontiers of 1914, the rejection of the Part V of Versailles, the return of the former German colonies in Africa, and a German zone of influence in Eastern Europe as goals for the future. Hitler found the goals in Bülow's memo to be too modest. In March 1933, to resolve the deadlock between the French demand for sécurité (“security”) and the German demand for gleichberechtigung (“equality of armaments”) at the World Disarmament Conference in Geneva, Switzerland, the British Prime Minister Ramsay MacDonald presented the compromise “MacDonald Plan”. Hitler endorsed the “MacDonald Plan”, correctly guessing that nothing would come of it, and that in the interval he could win some goodwill in London by making his government appear moderate, and the French obstinate.

In May 1933, Hitler met with Herbert von Dirksen, the German Ambassador in Moscow. Dirksen advised the Führer that he was allowing relations with the Soviet Union to deteriorate to a unacceptable extent, and advised to take immediate steps to repair relations with the Soviets. Much to Dirksen's intense disappointment, Hitler informed that he wished for an anti-Soviet understanding with Poland, which Dirksen protested implied recognition of the German-Polish border, leading Hitler to state he was after much greater things than merely overturning the Treaty of Versailles.

Der Fuhrer had plenty of time to plan it,he was just a jumped-up corporal,he didn't have what it takes.
 
Corsair 115 said:
Goering was undoubtedly a disaster as the head of the Luftwaffe. However, if your draft horses are keeling over dead from the cold, Russan airpower is the least of your supply worries. In terms of supplying forces by aircraft rather than by road or rail, it is a rather costly way of doing it when it comes to the fuel required.





You mean having a modern, mechanized army which was mostly supplied by horse-drawn carts isn't stupidity?
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Getting rid of all the Jewish intellectuals and scientists was a really stupid idea.
 
dafydd said:
Getting rid of all the Jewish intellectuals and scientists was a really stupid idea.
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Invading Russia without adequate preparation, without adequate logistical support, and without an honest appraisal of the force really required to do the job is a stupid idea too.
 
Corsair 115 said:
Invading Russia without adequate preparation, without adequate logistical support, and without an honest appraisal of the force really required to do the job is a stupid idea too.
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Hitler doing something stupid! Whatever next?
 
dafydd said:
Hitler doing something stupid! Whatever next?
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Our intrepid 9/11 investigator has already told us the Germans weren't stupid. But the Germans clearly did something monumentally stupid! How are we ever to resolve this conundrum???
 
Corsair 115 said:
Our intrepid 9/11 investigator has already told us the Germans weren't stupid. But the Germans clearly did something monumentally stupid! How are we ever to resolve this conundrum???
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Sigh, you are A*******? So I will explain it to you again, this time slowly...

You support the hypothesis that Hitler invaded Russia by choice. In that context the invasion was an ill-prepared matter. A stupidity so-to-speak.

There is an alternative hypothesis, namely that the invasion was not a war by choice but forced upon Hitler, just like he was forced to invade Western Europe, after Britain started to prepare the invasion of Norway. This Icebreaker theory says that Stalin was on the verge of invading Europe. Therefore Hitler was forced to act with the means het had at his disposal, even if ill prepared.
 
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Corsair 115 said:
Our intrepid 9/11 investigator has already told us the Germans weren't stupid. But the Germans clearly did something monumentally stupid! How are we ever to resolve this conundrum???
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They got rid of all the brains.The only people left to lead the Turd Reich were incapable of reading without moving their lips.
 
dafydd said:
If someone competent had been in charge of the Luftwaffe instead of a fat morphine addict,would the supplies have got through?
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No. Even a modern airforce with it's modern airlift capability could not supply a force as large as the German forces in Russia.
 
dafydd said:
If someone competent had been in charge of the Luftwaffe instead of a fat morphine addict,would the supplies have got through?
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You forgot the fancy for fantasy uniforms. :) And you're thinking specifically of Stalingrad, I guess. Herr Meyer was boasting, and he knew - or should have known - that the Luftwaffe was in no way capable of supplied the encircled 6th Army.

No enemy bomber can reach the Ruhr. If one reaches the Ruhr, my name is not Goering. You may call me Meyer.
 
ddt said:
You forgot the fancy for fantasy uniforms. :) And you're thinking specifically of Stalingrad, I guess. Herr Meyer was boasting, and he knew - or should have known - that the Luftwaffe was in no way capable of supplied the encircled 6th Army.

No enemy bomber can reach the Ruhr. If one reaches the Ruhr, my name is not Goering. You may call me Meyer.
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Goering was such an egoistical git that he offered 10 marks to his staff for reporting every joke that the Berliners made about him.Not to punish anyone,he revelled in it.It does not say a lot for Hitler's judgment,appointing the fat boy to such a high position.
 
9/11-investigator said:
Sigh, you are A*******? So I will explain it to you again, this time slowly...

You support the hypothesis that Hitler invaded Russia by choice. In that context the invasion was an ill-prepared matter. A stupidity so-to-speak.

There is an alternative hypothesis, namely that the invasion was not a war by choice but forced upon Hitler, just like he was forced to invade Western Europe, after Britain started to prepare the invasion of Norway. This Icebreaker theory says that Stalin was on the verge of invading Europe. Therefore Hitler was forced to act with the means het had at his disposal, even if ill prepared.
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I started to read the info provided, but life is too short. The notion that Stalin was about to attack is ludicrous. He had just purged the military of most of its experienced officers. Launching an attack at this time would have been suicide.

Also, if the Russians were poised to attack, why didn't they fight back when the Germans attacked?
 
dafydd said:
Goering was such an egoistical git that he offered 10 marks to his staff for reporting every joke that the Berliners made about him.Not to punish anyone,he revelled in it.It does not say a lot for Hitler's judgment,appointing the fat boy to such a high position.
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He was one of the "Alte Kämpfer", the ones going back to the Beer Hall Putsch, wasn't he? And he was still popular from his reputation as a flying ace in WW1. And IIRC, didn't do bad (from Nazi perspective) as Minister of Interior of Prussia. That's, BTW, a masterstroke of Hitler that is often overlooked: with that, the Nazis controlled the police in 2/3 of Germany. But as head of the Luftwaffe, Göring continually made promises to Hitler that were not realistic and could not be realized.
 
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