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Who started both World Wars?

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Good luck, I started my research in 1964.

Hmmm, I needed only a few hours to learn about the truth concerning PH. But then again, I can use German quality sources.

Do we have a treat for you! As a special service to Gawdzilla here a translated summary of 7 video’s (together more than an hour) of a speech about Pearl Harbor by Dr. Walter Post (in German)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVFaeNwFfYk&feature=related
Wer wollte den Krieg? (10 von 16)

Start video at 4:52 - Until 1854 Japan had been a almost completely closed agrarian country when A flottilia under Commodore Matthew Perry forcefully opened Japan.

Before 1850 there was hardly any industralism in Japan. Revolution from the top to industrialize Japan after 1850. 50 years later Japan was able to beat Russia 1904-1905. Reason war: domination of Manchuria (NE-China). This was to the turning point for Japan in becoming a great power.

Japan had little natural resources and a rapidly increasing population. China was politically weak, Japan consider Korea/Manchuria as its natural backyard. Most European powers had colonies on the Chinese coast as well, but not the US.

1899 US formulated the 'open door policy' to be adopted by China. Grew out to be the central policy motive towards China.

November 1908: Root-Takahira agreement, giving Japan a free hand in Manchuria. The US basically confirmed that Japan could annex Korea and Manchuria. Theodore Roosevelt wanted Japan as a counterweight against Russia in the east. American corporations however were afraid to be pushed aside by Japan in trade and later Wilson intervened against Japan.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2ZxPJtei-Q&NR=1
Wer wollte den Krieg? (11 von 16)

Because of WW1 the US became temporarily somewhat friendlier to Japan. A lot of Chinese, looking back upon 4-5000 years of history, considered that state of their country as a humiliation. In 1905 first revoluationary Sun Yat-sen. Wanted parliamentary republic after Western example. 1911 massive uprising. Sun Yat-sen elected as preliminary president. 1916 China disintegrated. Warlords. 1912 Kuomintang, moderate socialist party. Leader again Sun Yat-sen. 1917 he founded a government in Kanton directed against northern warlords. 1920 national government. Social reform, trying to get rid of European colonialists. Wanted to make Great Power of China. 1923 pact Kuomintang with Bolshevists in Moscow. Weapon deliveries. The Bolshevists wanted to undermine the colonialists and to push for a communist revolution in China. In 1921 pact Kuomintabg with communist party to counter the nationalists. 1925, after death Sun Yat-sen succeeded by Chiang Kai-shek. 1926 war against warlords and capturing of Peking. 1927 breaking with communists. Chiang Kai-shek ended cooperation with Moscow. Bloody revolts in shang-Hai. Communists had to go underground and build partizanships. Establishment of Soviets in the countryside. One of them led by Mao-Ze Dong,

Many warlords cooperated with Chiang Kai-shek. In 1928 all territory south of the Chinese wall nominally under Chiang Kai-shek control. Japan disliked that Chiang Kai-shek brought ever more Chinese territory under his command, because Tokyo could expect to be challenged in Manchuria. Japanese nationalist even pleaded for further expansion of sphere of influence in Northen China. 1937 clash between Japanese and Chinese nationalists near Peking, unleashing a war that would last until 1945. In 1938 the Japanese conquered chinese coastal provinces.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQv3dtkbgy0&NR=1
Wer wollte den Krieg? (12 von 16)

1935 Chiang Kai-shek had pushed the communists in the defensive. Retreat is known as Long March. Both Japanese as nationalists understood that a war would only benefit the communists.

FDR wanted to restore world trade to recover from the depression. He wanted to cooperate with the USSR. Roosevelt aspired a NOW under American leadership (2:45). In his view there should be close cooperation between USA, UK, USSR and China. Authoritarian states like Germany, Italy and Japan were seen as the antipodes of a liberal world order and ’danger to world peace’. Roosevelt had no problem with the marxist USSR. Roosevelt was sure that the USSR would develop itself to become more democratic, while New Deal America would slowly adopt more socialist principles (convergence theory). Roosevelt was decidedly pro-Chinese in it’s conflict with Japan. Nevertheless, at the outbreak of the war declared the US itself as neutral, to the disappointment of the Chinese. Roosevelt had to consider strong isolationalist tendencies of the opposition in Congress resulting from WW1. In 1937 hiwever Roosevelt wanted to put agressor nations (’gangster states’) into 'quarantaine', meaning political and economic isolation in order to realise a 'regime-change' in the long run. Germany had concentrated itself since the 1920’s on China. At the same time their was German-Japanese raprochement. The Germans tried to mediate between china and Japan when in 1937 the war between Japan and China broke out but failed with negative consequences for all 3 parties (7:10). Churchill as early as september 1939 had suggested that the US should enter the European war via the Japanese back door (8:10). But without permission of Congress could Roosevelt not intervene in Europe, unless of course America itself would be attacked. In 1939 the relations with Japan had futher deteriorated. In july embargo on plane and equipment. Beginning 1940 further measures. The american ambassador in Tokyo Joseph Grew already warned in autumn 1939 against an oil embargo, otherwise Japan would be forced to get the oil from British or Dutch colonies elsewhere in Asia. In order to prevent this Roosevelt ordered to move his Pacific Fleet from San Diego to Pearl Harbor in jan 1940. As a result Japan, Germany and Italy in 27 september 1940 agreed on an alliance.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLbwXGse12w&NR=1
Wer wollte den Krieg? (13 von 16)

The 3 parties agreed to help each other if one of them would be attacked by the US. The goal was deterrence. But at the same time opened this pact the door to war, what Roosevelt had wanted all along. Jan 1941 Japanese proposals to restore good relations with the US. Japan proposed to de facto cancel the Tripartite Pact and to withdraw all it’s troops from Asia except Manchuria, a far reaching proposal. Roosevelt and Cordell Hull were hardly interested.

In August 1940 American decrypters were able to break an important code (purple code) Mid 1941 the Americans were able to read the messages between the Japanese foreign ministery and Japanese ambassies. Code name Magic.

21 July 1941 Japanese invaded French Indo-China (Vietnam). In reaction Roosevelt frooze Japanese assets in the US and began an oil embargo. Earlier in April 1941 there had been a secret agreement between the US, British and Dutch government in exile that their would be a common militairy response if British or Dutch colonial territory would be invaded by the Japanese (3:35). During the Atlantic Conference August 14, 1941, Roosevelt promised Churchill that the US would soon enter war in Asia. 27 Jan 1942 Churchill declared in Parliament confirmed this while adding that war entry would even happen if the US was not attacked, which garantees our final victory. The Japanese proposed a summit with the US in August 1941. Roosevelt doubted but Hull was against. At the time Roosevelt’s main foreign policy goal was entering war with Germany (5:40). One of the tactics was to provoke a German U-boat attack on American vessels. But the German navy avoided any confrontation and accepted considerable disadvantages in the process. 11 September Roosevelt ordered explicit shooting of German U-boats. In the Atlantic an undeclared war now prevailed. It was obvious for the Americans the Germany would not declare war. The only way that remained to engage in war was via Japan (7:00). In the mean time Japan got a military government. Since Japan had a GBP of only 10% of that of the US, the Japanese realized that their chances of winning a war with the US were minimal. Yamamoto had internally declared that Japan could withstand the US for maybe a year. The new military government prefered a negotiated settlement over war for this reason. November 1, 1941 Japanese high level internal meeting about the critical condition of the industry if the oil embargo is to be continued. Concensus was reached that if negotiations with the US would fail that Japan had to go to war. On November 4 a cable to the Japanese ambassy in Washington said that the limit was reached. A last attempt to negotiate should be undertaken. If that fails, the relation between Japan and US will be on the edge of the abyss (The Americans as said before knew the content of this message).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWmkXm9z9Oc&NR=1
Wer wollte den Krieg? (14 von 16)

Chiang Kai-shek in the mean time warned the US for an agreement with Japan, because this would undermine Chinese moral in battling the Japanese. Marshall and Stark were angered by this attempt to influence because they thought that the US was not yet ready to fight Japan.

November 5 cable from Japanese FM to amb. that 25 November was the dead line. This msg was also intercepted by the Americans. It was obvious that a war would start after November 25.

On November 21 last offer to State Department. Content: 6 month truce to come to an allcompassing solution. Again offer to cancel Tripartite Pact with Berlin and Rome. Next day message to Japanese negotiators that deadline had postponed for 4 days (November 29) but that after that events would folloow automatically. Msg again intercepted by Americans. November 25 Japanese naval units coursed for Pearl Harbor. November 25, meeting in the White House between Roosevelt, Hull, Stark, Marshall, Stimson. All knew that November 29 was the dead line. Stimson wrote in his diary that Roosevelt had said that the US probably would be attacked, maybe already next Monday. The Japanese are notorious for surprise attacks. The question was how we could manouver them in a position that they shoot first, without endangering ourselves too much. Hull was in favor of halting the negotiations. The pressure from British and Chinese was decisive. It was Hull who answered the Japanese negotiators the same day that the Japanese should withdraw all troops from entire China, including Manchuria, recognition of the Chiang-Kai-shek regime and public cancelling Tripartite Pact. This was unacceptable for Japan. Everybody understood war was now immanent (6:10). Next day Stimson called Hull, who literally said that from now on it was a matter of navy and army.

13 Feb 1932 admiral Harry Yarnell had demonstrated the possibility to surprise attack Pearl Harbor from aircraft carriers. The leadership of the Navy realised the vulnerable position of it’s fleet. On 8 October 1940 had admiral Richardson already advised Roosevelt not to permanently station the Pacific fleet in PH.

On that same meeting Richardson had asked the president when he thought that the US would enter the war. Roosevelt had answered that at some point the Japanese would make a mistake and at that moment would the US enter the war (8:33). Feb 1 1941, Richardson was replaced by admiral Kimmel.

Jan 1941 Yamamoto started to draw the first plans for a surprise attack on PH. PH was only part of a larger strategic plan. The July 1941 oil embarbo forced the Japanese to capture the Dutch East Indies. US and UK diplomats had already told the Japanese that such a move would mean war. A Japanese assault would be threatened in the flank by the Pacific fleet. Hence the decision to attack PH.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDkt9l2jRGw&NR=1
Wer wollte den Krieg? (15 von 16)

Kimmel and Short were hardly informed about the political situation by Washington. They knew nothing about Magic. They got no warning. Instead they were summoned to send away 2 aircraft carriers Enterprise and Lexington on November 27 to the islands of Wake and Midway, with the task of transporting airplanes to those locations. In this way the rest of the fleet was deprived of it’s strongest means of protection. December 7 was planned as the date of attack.

October 1940 Americans had also succeeded in breaking the code of Kaigun. Despite that Yamamoto had ordered strict radio silence several Japanese ships communicated encrypted their positions. This data was captured in Hawaii, Seatlle and other American locations (4:10). The American leadership was complete aware of what was coming.

On November 28 a telegram went from Japan to the embassy in Washington explaining why the Japanese government could not accept the humiliating American conditions. This meant that for the Japanese the deadline had passed.

On November 30, the Japanese ambassy in Berlin was informed likewise. The amb was told to inform Hitler that there was the utmost chance of a war between Japan and the Anglo-saxons and that it could happen faster than anyone could imagine.

December 6, 10:40, Roosevelt received a msg from American ambassador in London that 2 Japanese naval units, as observed by the British, had crossed the line that should trigger action as agreed upon with the British and the Dutch (ABCD). This meant that the US, UK and The Netherlands were at war, even before one shot was fired.

Roosevelt was now in a precarious situation (9:35). He was at war on the basis of a secret agreement, wothout knowledge, let alone aprovement of Congress. A huge scandal now threatened to occur, unless of course if the Japanese would fire the first shot. For this reason alone PH could not be warned. Because that would have meant big alarm and ships sailing out of the harbor.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM_p3aYyPzQ&NR=1
Wer wollte den Krieg? (16 von 16)

The scandal probably had implied impeachment of Roosevelt. As a consequence Kimmel and Short did not receive serious warnings resulting in that they were held responsible for the desaster. On December 6 Roosevelt got an intercepted msg on his deks meaning that war was inevitable. Advisor Harry Hopkins who was with Roosevelt said that it was too bas that the war would start with an advantage of the Japanese. Roosevelt replied that we cannot hit first. 'We are a democracy. We are a pieaceloving nation. We have a good reputation'. :D

Outbreak of the war was only a matter of hours. On December 7, the Japanese ambassy received the instruction to hand over a declaration of war on 13:00 Washington time to the state department. Leading officers who intercepted the message had little doubt that Pearl Harbor would be the target. They advised Stark to warn Hawaii (3:10). Stark said that he needed the permission of Marshall. Marshall however could not be reached, he was on a trip that lasted two-and-a-half hours. When Marshall returned and read the msg he wrote a very general phrased warning to general Short. He used a commercial RCA radio connection rather than military lines. Every sense of urgency was ommited. The result was that the ‘warning’ reached Hawaii 7 hours after the attack. We can assume that the delay was deliberate.

On 7:55 AM, 350 planes attacked in 2 waves. The surprise was complete. 2400 people killed. The oil storage was not destroyed. No carrier was destroyed and proved to be the most potent weapon of the Pacific war. The interventionist press did it’s work, and the until then leading isolationists were silenced over night. Hitler was completely surprised. On December 8, the German navy received orders to attack American ships without restraint.

Roosevelt decided to leave the declaration of war to the Germans (December 11, 1941).

The American were not yet ready to intervene in Europe. Hitler calculated that he had another year to defeat the Soviets. The war had turned in a World War.
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Still anybody here who wants to maintain the ludicrous idea that Roosevelt knew nothing in advance?
 
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Should have added "thinking" to the listen, then. All those old tired myths have been dealt with years ago. Repeating them just makes your sources look stupid. And by inference . . .

But you are not going to say where the errors are?

Should be 'peace of cake' for you after 46 years of study.
 
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I'm not going to bother disassembling yet another conspiracy nut rant. You read the Hearing, find the smoking gun and tell us about it.

(If anybody else has a question, please post.)

That's discrimination! :D

I suspect that you are afraid to engage in a debate with me.
Asking to read 20,000 pages is ridiculous. I gave you 3 pages instead, representating the latest in Pearl Harbor research.

So where is the error?
 
That's discrimination! :D
Actually, it's a complete and utter lack of respect for you.
I suspect that you are afraid to engage in a debate with me.
Asking to read 20,000 pages is ridiculous. I gave you 3 pages instead, representating the latest in Pearl Harbor research.

So where is the error?
In believing that crap. It has been debunked hundreds of times before, and I no longer debate with UFO nuts, religious fanatics or Nazi creeps.
 
Discussion won without a fight.

Tomorrow I am going to concentrate on Barbarossa.

Material:

New Evidence on the 1941 'Barbarossa' Attack: Why Hitler Attacked Soviet Russia When He Did
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v18/v18n3p40_Michaels.html

Examining Stalin's 1941 Plan to Attack Germany
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n6p40_Michaels.html

Stalin Prepared for Summer 1941 Attack
By Mark Weber
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p501a_Weber.html

Stalin's War
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v08/v08p222_Smith.html

Exposing Stalin's Plan to Conquer Europe
How the Soviet Union 'Lost' the Second World War
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v17/v17n4p30_Michaels.html

Suvorov - http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v17/v17n4p30_Michaels.html
Exposing Stalin's Plan to Conquer Europe

Hitler's 'Barbarossa' Proclamation - http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n6p50_Hitler.html

President Roosevelt's Campaign To Incite War in Europe:
The Secret Polish Documents - http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p135_Weber.html

Defeat in the East: Russia Conquers -- January to May 1945 - http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v03/v03p-91_Thorwald.html

Der Zweite Weltkrieg: Ursachen Und Anlass - http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v05/v05p408_Granata.html

The Eastern Front: The Soviet-German War, 1941-45 - http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p244_Lutton.html

Russian Specialist Lays Bare Stalin's Plan to Conquer Europe
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n6p22_Bishop.html

The Origins of the Second World War
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v07/v07p-95_Franz-Willing.html

Soviet Russia's Persecution of Latvia, 1918 to the Present
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v08/v08p-25_Berkis.html
 
In believing that crap. It has been debunked hundreds of times before, and I no longer debate with UFO nuts, religious fanatics or Nazi creeps.

Yes you do, you did for more than 2000 posts.

And now when the subject turns to a field on which you are a self-described expert of 46 years, you chicken out.

Cannot be because of my perceived 'Nazism', UFO-worshipping of being a 'religious fanatic', because I have not changed during my last 2 posts.

The reason is that you don't want to be exposed as an incompetent fraud, because that's what you are.

And that's why you run for the hills. :D

You can run but you cannot hide. The internet is everywhere, exposing the Anglos for... ah well, I am going to sleep...
 
Yes you do, you did for more than 2000 posts.

And now when the subject turns to a field on which you are a self-described expert of 46 years, you chicken out.

Cannot be because of my perceived 'Nazism', UFO-worshipping of being a 'religious fanatic', because I have not changed during my last 2 posts.

The reason is that you don't want to be exposed as an incompetent fraud, because that's what you are.

And that's why you run for the hills. :D

You can run but you cannot hide. The internet is everywhere, exposing the Anglos for... ah well, I am going to sleep...

You only have to read the sites in my sig to know what I've done. If you can't do that, I really don't care.
 
Although the posts 9/11 have made in this thread are false, dumb and extremely offensive, I suppose we owe him thanks for demonstrating one of the motivations behind 9/11 conspiracy delusions: good ol' fashioned antisemitism.

Thanks, nazi.
 
I am completely uninterested in documents produced by the criminal himself, which can't be anything else than white washing.

You play the role of fool nicely. Those are all primary source documents, originals. Now run along and read all 750,000 pages on those three sites and come back so we can talk intelligently about this.

Or not, I don't care.
 
Although the posts 9/11 have made in this thread are false

The idea of a discussion forum is to point out why the ideas posted are false.

Not to throw with mud.

But I guess that is difficult if you are defending the weaker case, namely that of a non-existing Anglo sainthood.
 
The idea of a discussion forum is to point out why the ideas posted are false.

Not to throw with mud.

But I guess that is difficult if you are defending the weaker case, namely that of a non-existing Anglo sainthood.

The idea of the discussion is to point out neo-Nasties are the lower end of the food chain. With your help, we've succeeded.
 
There's no "of course" about it. Do you have anything to support the credibility of those sources, or is this just a circle of nutcases who write made-up nonsense and then quote each other to provide a spurious patina of credibility for their fantasy?
 
(If anybody else has a question, please post.)

Not a question, but I did some googling on this Dr. Walter Post. It was quite a burden to find something valuable, as most of the links that turned up came from CODOH, VHO, IHR and Stormfront.

German wiki-page Präventivkriegsthese (preventive war thesis): WP is a Suvorov groupie, and belongs to a group of right-wing or extreme-right authors that publishes in journals like Ostpreussenblatt, Nation und Europa, National-Zeitung.

A comment on AxisHistory:
And here is a link to a short biography of Walter Post, author of "Die verleumdete Armee" ("The Slandered Army") which shows him to be at least a nazi sympathizer if not an outright Nazi:
The link does not work anymore, but pointed to an "Information Service against Right-Extremism" (which isn't available on the Wayback machine either...). Furthermore, he seems to whitewash the murder of hostages by the SS in 1941 in Yugoslavia/Serbia.

The Zeitgeschichtliche Forschungsstelle Ingolstadt, the German equivalent of the IHR, has awarded him a prize in 1993.

In 1998, Walter Post published and wrote the introduction for the German translation of George Morgenstern's "Pearl Harbor: The Story of the Secret War", that in the USA is published by the IHR.

Conclusion: yet another revisionist and whitewasher.
 
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