Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Alt+F4]

Perhaps we should lay off PMF and TJMK, and let them build their own legacy as they see fit.

Fred Phelps is a "minister" in Kansas who once took it upon himself to picket the funerals of gay people who had died of AIDS, with signs that said "God hates fags." More recently he has picketed the funerals of US soldiers killed in combat, with signs saying "Thank God for IEDs." His rationale is that God is punishing them for their service to a wicked country.

He presents himself as someone who is teaching the world what is right and what is wrong. But most neutral observers think he is a weirdo who gets his jollies by hurting people who are already grieving. When someone posts about Edda Mellas, saying the media needs to "hold her feet to the fire," it comes across the same way.

Charlie, I think this is a poor analogy. Greiving for someone who has died (and I know) is very different than missing someone who is in prison. No matter how bad Edda Mellas feels, she can still see Amanda, write to her, talk with her on the phone. You don't get any of that when the person is dead.

In additon, physically showing up at a funeral and telling the deceased's family that their loved one is burning in hell is a lot different than what has been said about Edda Mellas.

The Knox/Mellas family has decided to take their fight public, and I don't blame them. I would do the same thing if I were in their position. With that they are gonna take some mean hits in the media (you really think you can go on Oprah and not get slammed?) and they seem to be handling it ok. Don't feel sorry for them. Even if Amanda is innocent yet ends up serving her full term I could think of a thousand worse things that could happen to them - like losing her at 18 in Afghanistan to a road side bomb.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Why is there even a need for an appeal Chris?

Because courts, including Italian courts, get things wrong sometimes. That is simply a fact. It is not up for debate. That is why they have an appeals process at all, you see. If courts were infallible there would be no need for appeals.

(Also if you'd read the thread thoroughly you'd have seen that AK and RS's original defence teams have already been the subject of serious criticism here).

 

[Dan O.]

However generally speaking on average a body temperature drops at 1.5 degrees F per hour.

<http://www.crimeandclues.com/index.php/death-investigation/67-entomology/95-the-role-of-entomology-in-forensic-investigations>

Another problem with Temperature, other than the range of variables to be considered, is that each investigator seems to use different standards to estimate the cooling rate per hour. Dr. Micheal Baden, the former chief medical examiner of New York, NY. uses a one degree per hour cooling rate (Baden and Hennesse, 1989). Dr. Ian West uses a formula of 1.5 - 2 degrees Celsius per hour for the first two hours and then .75 degrees after that until the body reaches environmental temperature. Dr. West points out that environmental factors such as rain can greatly affect the cooling rates( West & Stern, 1996). The Encycleopedia of Forensic Science uses a standard of 1.5 degrees Celsius per hour (Lane, 1992).​

In reality, the body temperature will follow an exponential decay where the rate of drop is proportional to the difference between the internal body temperature and the environmental temperature. The simplified formulas above however are about as accurate as you can get given the unknown variables.

If you want to play with temperature based time of death estimates, here is an online applet that will to the calculations for you: http://www.pathguy.com/TimeDead.htm

From the Massei report (pg 103) we get the key values:

On that occasion he could discover the corpse and completely effettivamanete REFERS noted that "a person of the female sex, age apparent age of 21 years, length of cm. 164 kg approximate weight of 50. It appeared naked except for a T-shirt but relieved that it was worn over the breasts and was widely smeared with blood. " Even the hands were soiled with blood, and were protected with plastic bags to allow the repertoire because of the formations were visible hair. At about 0.50 the following data were collected tanatocronologici: rigor mortis present and valid in all muscle; hypostasis red vinous localized in the posterior region of the corpse impallidenti pressure digital rectal temperature of 22 degrees Celsius and ambient temperature 13 degrees Celsius​

.

From this data, the applet gives: "Estimated time since death is 24.9 hours. Of course, the uncertainty is high."

By giving a 1 degree higher ambient temperature, the applet gives: "Estimated time since death is 26.5 hours. Of course, the uncertainty is high."

It is noted earlier in the report that the heat in the cottage is off. The inside temperature will have risen several degrees during the day and cooled of again by midnight when the readings were taken.

 

[christianahannah]

A bit more on Quintavalle from Amanda's appeal, particularly Inspector Volturno testifying that he asked him about Amanda and showed him photos of her - even asked him if he saw her buying bleach in the days before or after the murder...

During the trial hearings, Inspector Volturno stated that: "As regards the two bottles of Ace bleach that were seized from Raffaele Sollecito's house on 16 November 2007: immediately after the seizure I went around the shops in the neighbourhood of Raffaele Sollecito's building trying to find out where the purchase could have been made, and for this purpose I showed photographs of Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox. After a few days we found a Conad-Margherita shop situated just at the beginning of Corso Garibaldi, where both the owner and the assistants recognized Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox in the photographs we showed them. Raffaele Sollecito was a regular client of the shop, whilst the girl had been seen two or three times in his company. QUESTION - Together with Sollecito? RESPONSE - Yes, yes, in his company" (transcript hearing 21 March 2009).

Therefore, Inspector Volturno brought the photographs of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito to the attention of the owner of the Conad shop in order to verify "whether they might by chance have noticed these people buying this product in the days immediately before or after the murder, but they didn't remember" (transcript hearing 21 March 2009). [...]

The inspector expressly reported having put the question both to Quintavalle and to his two assistants:

QUESTION - Who did you speak to? [Who did you hear?]
RESPONSE - Quintavalle, (Chiriboga) since she is his assistant and another girl whose name I don't recall now>> (transcript hearing 13 March 2009).

QUESTION - You said previously that you had photographs of Amanda and Raffaele.
RESPONSE - That's right.
QUESTION - And you showed them to the people who were inside the shop?
RESPONSE - Yes.
QUESTION - Therefore both the owner and his assistants.
RESPONSE - Yes.
QUESTION - You said that you asked the manager of the business if he had seen the two defendants.
RESPONSE - Yes, exactly.
QUESTION - What was his exact response?
RESPONSE - He said that Sollecito was a regular client whilst Amanda Knox was seen on a couple of occasions in Sollecito's company" (transcript hearing 13 March 2009, page 203).

Inspector Volturno explicitly asked Quintavalle whether he recognized the photographs of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito and whether he had seen them buy bleach in a period close to the murder. Quintavalle only recognized Amanda Knox as the girl whom he had seen enter the shop on a couple of occasions, but always in the company of Raffaele Sollecito. No mention to the investigators of the presence of Amanda Knox in his shop on the morning after the murder.

It appears from this excerpt of the appeals that Quintavalle wasn't visited by police until approximately two weeks or more after 2 November. I cannot question his credibility concerning his recall of events that morning and subsequent investigation by the police (Volturno) from this excerpt. It is possible that the girl who was waiting in the morning of 2 November didn't come to his mind as Amanda when questioned by Volturno until later. And he may have been more fixated on purchases by Raffaele and Amanda together. All this is speculation, of course.

Court transcripts would be nice as to the whole testimony as would testimony of the journalist friend as to the conversation Quintavalle and he had concerning 2 November.

 

[christianahannah]

Yes. The police examined the bleach bottles at Sollecito's apartment with great interest. They examined the receipts with great interest. Then they told the media they had found bleach receipts dated Nov. 2 when in fact, there are none. They clearly were focused on this line of inquiry. So how likely is it that they would have failed to ask this shopkeeper about the matters that elicited his testimony a year later?

I see no reason why anyone interested should not examine the video from Sollecito apartment, so here is the link:

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/sollecito_apartment.mp4

It's over 400mb. I rendered it with AviDemux (freeware for all platforms) and recommend it for watching this video. If you get a warning, use "safe mode" and don't worry about frame accuracy, which is only an issue if you want to re-render it rather than just view it.

Charlie do you also have the walk-through video of the girls' flat? The one timed approximately 15:00 hours on 2 November?

 

[Chris C]

The measurement of body temperature is noted on page 103 of the Massie report:

The most accurate formula is the henssge nomogram. If kercher was wearing minimal clothing with a rectal temp of 22 degrees and ambient of 13. With a weight of 50 kg then her time of death would be approx: 16 hours Which means at some point during the day the ambient temperature of that apartment would have had to been close to the temperature of the body to throw off the curve that much.

 

[Chris C]

Not only does the body temperature not match the ToD, forensic experts say that using the body temp after 24 hours is an innaccurate way to determine ToD.
For example after 3 hours it is suggested that your ToD window should be a minimum of atleast 1 hour. The longer the body has cooled the bigger the window for time of death. If I remember correctly wasn't the ToD window still just 1 hour even though the body had been cooling longer than 24 hours.

 

[Alt+F4]

Ergo the phone pinged as the murderer(s) were moving it. At a quarter past ten the murderer(s) had left the murder house with the phones in their possession, but had not yet dumped the phones in the location where they were found the next day.

Even if you believe there was only one person involved (Guede) what your saying is between 9:15 and 10:15 he: broke into the apartment, sexually assulted Meredith, murdered Meredith after what was a significant struggle, undress her, got towels from the bathroom, took off his shoes, put on his shoes, took the lamp from Amanda's room, used the toilet (long enough in the batroom to use his iPod), moved the body, cleaned up in the bathroom, took Meredith's key, phones, locked her door without turning around, locked the front door and was already halfway to the place the phones were dumped.

Am I missing anything?

Also, there is no evidence that Meredith was attacked the moment she walked in the door, pushing the time back even further.

Sorry, I just don't think one hour is enough time for one person to do all
that, especially under the stress of just having committed a murder. Even the act of locking the doors would have been time consuming considering he was not familiar with them. Also, didn't he mention getting the towels to stop her bleeding? Add more time for that.

If you're right that the phones were on their way to their final destination at 10:15 it makes more sense that three people, not one, could do everything in a hour.

 

[Alt+F4]

My knowledge of the subject (which is more than that of many lay people, but of course far short of expert) would lead me to believe that the state of the stomach contents (and absence of duodenal contents) are only compatible with a time of death of 21.00-21.30. Furthermore, they are (in my unqualified opinion) completely incompatible with a time of death of even 22.30 - let alone 23.00 or 23.20.

Didn't Meredith's friend part company with her at about 8:55p? How the heck could she be dead 5 minutes later? Even 30 minutes later considering she:

1. was undressed by force.
2. sexually assulted.
3. stabbed numerous times after a violent struggle.
4. didn't die immediately, but bled to death

 

[Dan O.]

According to the clock on the camcorder, the examination of the body began at 1:32 am Nov. 3, 12 hours after the door was broken down and more than 24 hours after death by anyone's estimate.

It's noted on page 290 of the Massei Report that the clock in the video recorder is one hour fast.

 

[Chris C]

Even if you believe there was only one person involved (Guede) what your saying is between 9:15 and 10:15 he: broke into the apartment, sexually assulted Meredith, murdered Meredith after what was a significant struggle, undress her, got towels from the bathroom, took off his shoes, put on his shoes, took the lamp from Amanda's room, used the toilet (long enough in the batroom to use his iPod), moved the body, cleaned up in the bathroom, took Meredith's key, phones, locked her door without turning around, locked the front door and was already halfway to the place the phones were dumped.

Am I missing anything?

Also, there is no evidence that Meredith was attacked the moment she walked in the door, pushing the time back even further.

Sorry, I just don't think one hour is enough time for one person to do all
that, especially under the stress of just having committed a murder. Even the act of locking the doors would have been time consuming considering he was not familiar with them. Also, didn't he mention getting the towels to stop her bleeding? Add more time for that.

If you're right that the phones were on their way to their final destination at 10:15 it makes more sense that three people, not one, could do everything in a hour.

Dont forget drank some OJ.

Who said he did all that in 1 hour. Whats to say he hadn't already broke in before meredith arrived home. Which means he could have taken a crap and had some oj before meredith showed up.

 

[LondonJohn]

Even if you believe there was only one person involved (Guede) what your saying is between 9:15 and 10:15 he: broke into the apartment, sexually assulted Meredith, murdered Meredith after what was a significant struggle, undress her, got towels from the bathroom, took off his shoes, put on his shoes, took the lamp from Amanda's room, used the toilet (long enough in the batroom to use his iPod), moved the body, cleaned up in the bathroom, took Meredith's key, phones, locked her door without turning around, locked the front door and was already halfway to the place the phones were dumped.

Am I missing anything?

Also, there is no evidence that Meredith was attacked the moment she walked in the door, pushing the time back even further.

Sorry, I just don't think one hour is enough time for one person to do all
that, especially under the stress of just having committed a murder. Even the act of locking the doors would have been time consuming considering he was not familiar with them. Also, didn't he mention getting the towels to stop her bleeding? Add more time for that.

If you're right that the phones were on their way to their final destination at 10:15 it makes more sense that three people, not one, could do everything in a hour.

Yes, you are missing various things.

The most important thing you are missing is the proposition that Guede broke into the house before 9pm. In this theory, Meredith disturbed Guede when she arrived home at around 9pm (while Guede was using the toilet, most probably), and she was attacked and murdered shortly after that time (9.05-9.15pm). So that still leaves plenty of time for Guede to have cleaned himself up, rifled through Meredith's belongings, moved her body and left the house through the front door.

This theory would go some way to explaining a number of pieces of evidence:

1) Guede's unflushed faeces in the toilet (unflushed because Guede was trying to sneak out of the house undetected);

2) Meredith's aborted mobile phone call home to her parents just before 9pm (she was interrupted by the noise of Guede trying to open the front door, or confronted by Guede at her bedroom door);

3) Meredith's stomach contents (which seem to clearly indicate a time of death between 9pm and 9.30pm at the latest);

4) The closed-in exterior shutters in Filomena's room (Guede closed them in himself after breaking in, so as to conceal the broken window - which would also be why Meredith noticed nothing amiss when she returned home)

5) The curious aborted calls from Meredith's UK mobile phone to her bank and her voicemail at around 10pm (Guede fiddling with the phone, perhaps trying to turn it off)

6) The incoming MMS from the base station which the phone had never before connected when situated inside Meredith's room (Guede moving way from the house, carrying the two mobile phones, before dumping them)

7) The apparently open front door discovered by Knox the next morning (Guede would almost certainly not have known that the front door needed to be locked using the key, so it's reasonable to suggest that he might just have pulled it shut behind him when leaving).

8) The testimony of the people whose car broke down outside the girls' house, who testified collectively that there was no sound or light within the girls' house for the entire duration of their wait to be towed away - between 10.30pm and 11.15pm - and neither did anybody enter or leave the house during that period.

 

[LondonJohn]

Not only does the body temperature not match the ToD, forensic experts say that using the body temp after 24 hours is an innaccurate way to determine ToD.
For example after 3 hours it is suggested that your ToD window should be a minimum of atleast 1 hour. The longer the body has cooled the bigger the window for time of death. If I remember correctly wasn't the ToD window still just 1 hour even though the body had been cooling longer than 24 hours.

Exactly. I think that most forensic experts would put the margin of error after over 24 hours at as much as 10 hours! Add into that the fact that Meredith lost a lot of blood - which affects the rate of body cooling significantly - and the fact that nobody seems to have made an accurate record of the temperatures in Meredith's room throughout the day (together with an intelligent estimate of the room temperature during the night of 1st/2nd November), and I think the margin of error in this instance might be even higher.

Given all these variables, coupled with the large existing body of knowledge on this subject, I think any respected pathologist would strongly challenge the ability to estimate Meredith's time of death from her post-mortem body temperature to anything less than an 8-10 hour window - and most definitely not to within a single hour.

 

[LondonJohn]

It's noted on page 290 of the Massei Report that the clock in the video recorder is one hour fast.

It's another example of that accuracy and attention to detail that the Perugia police investigators are so famous for.........

 

[LondonJohn]

Didn't Meredith's friend part company with her at about 8:55p? How the heck could she be dead 5 minutes later? Even 30 minutes later considering she:

1. was undressed by force.
2. sexually assulted.
3. stabbed numerous times after a violent struggle.
4. didn't die immediately, but bled to death

Point out to me again where I said that her time of death was 9pm? And 30 minutes is more than enough time for all of that to happen, if she were confronted and attacked very soon after arriving home (as I believe she was).

Also, with regard to your point on bleeding to death, rapid blood loss (hypovolemia) causes various physiological systems to slow and shut down, before brain death actually occurs. One of the first to shut down is the gastro-intestinal system, meaning that Meredith's stomach and intestines would have likely stopped functioning in their normal way within 5-10 minutes of her starting to lose blood from the neck wounds. So "time of death" in the context of the stomach contents might more correctly be rephrased as "time of shutdown of gastrointestinal system, from wounds which went on to cause death". Actual brain death might have occurred up to 20-30 minutes after the wounds were caused.

 

[Chris C]

Yes, you are missing various things.

The most important thing you are missing is the proposition that Guede broke into the house before 9pm. In this theory, Meredith disturbed Guede when she arrived home at around 9pm (while Guede was using the toilet, most probably), and she was attacked and murdered shortly after that time (9.05-9.15pm). So that still leaves plenty of time for Guede to have cleaned himself up, rifled through Meredith's belongings, moved her body and left the house through the front door.

This theory would go some way to explaining a number of pieces of evidence:

1) Guede's unflushed faeces in the toilet (unflushed because Guede was trying to sneak out of the house undetected);

2) Meredith's aborted mobile phone call home to her parents just before 9pm (she was interrupted by the noise of Guede trying to open the front door, or confronted by Guede at her bedroom door);

3) Meredith's stomach contents (which seem to clearly indicate a time of death between 9pm and 9.30pm at the latest);

4) The closed-in exterior shutters in Filomena's room (Guede closed them in himself after breaking in, so as to conceal the broken window - which would also be why Meredith noticed nothing amiss when she returned home)

5) The curious aborted calls from Meredith's UK mobile phone to her bank and her voicemail at around 10pm (Guede fiddling with the phone, perhaps trying to turn it off)

6) The incoming MMS from the base station which the phone had never before connected when situated inside Meredith's room (Guede moving way from the house, carrying the two mobile phones, before dumping them)

7) The apparently open front door discovered by Knox the next morning (Guede would almost certainly not have known that the front door needed to be locked using the key, so it's reasonable to suggest that he might just have pulled it shut behind him when leaving).

8) The testimony of the people whose car broke down outside the girls' house, who testified collectively that there was no sound or light within the girls' house for the entire duration of their wait to be towed away - between 10.30pm and 11.15pm - and neither did anybody enter or leave the house during that period.

9) Dont forget the transit guy that has Knox/Sollecito on the court until after Midnight. Which means Knox/Sollecito couldn't have killed kercher between 10:30 and after midnight since the lights where not on, no activity was observed and they where on the court being watched by an eyewitness.

10) Why isn't the girl that walked her home a suspect. After all, she admits to being with Kercher alone during the ToD window. Plus she claims to have only walked her half way home. Why did she only walk her half way home? Did they even bother to verify that? Whyt no DNA samples where taken from her? How is Knox/Sollecito helping Guede to rape/murder Kercher plausible and the girl that walked her half way home not plausible?

11) What clean up?

 

[Kestrel]

Even if you believe there was only one person involved (Guede) what your saying is between 9:15 and 10:15 he: broke into the apartment, sexually assulted Meredith, murdered Meredith after what was a significant struggle, undress her, got towels from the bathroom, took off his shoes, put on his shoes, took the lamp from Amanda's room, used the toilet (long enough in the batroom to use his iPod), moved the body, cleaned up in the bathroom, took Meredith's key, phones, locked her door without turning around, locked the front door and was already halfway to the place the phones were dumped.

Am I missing anything?

Also, there is no evidence that Meredith was attacked the moment she walked in the door, pushing the time back even further.

Sorry, I just don't think one hour is enough time for one person to do all
that, especially under the stress of just having committed a murder. Even the act of locking the doors would have been time consuming considering he was not familiar with them. Also, didn't he mention getting the towels to stop her bleeding? Add more time for that.

If you're right that the phones were on their way to their final destination at 10:15 it makes more sense that three people, not one, could do everything in a hour.

Not everything you mentioned had to occur during that hour.

The testimony of her friend Robyn and video evidence from the car park camera shows that Meredith arrived home a few minutes after 9 PM. My contention is that Rudy had already broken in and was probably sitting on the toilet when Meredith got home. The defecation that he didn't flush is a clue that his toilet routine was interrupted.

Meredith's phone shows an attempt to call home at 8:56 PM, just after she left Robyn, but before she arrived home. The call was registered in her cell phone's memory, but the phone did not connect to a cell tower. It's logical to assume that Meredith would try to call her mother again. The fact that she did not indicates she wasn't home for long before she was attacked.

Real life isn't like the movies. Fights don't last all that long, especially when one of the fighters goes for the throat with a knife. If Meredith was attacked right after she came home, the fatal wound was delivered before 9:15 PM. Many of the things on your list had already happened before that time.

I would also suggest acting out a few of the things on your list and timing them with a watch. For example, walking to a bathroom that is only a few feet away only takes seconds. Sliding an incapacitated victim a few feet is also a matter of seconds. Looking in a purse and a drawer for valuables and pocketing the cash, credit cards and keys you find only takes a minute or two.

The timing for Rudy as a lone attacker works just fine. Meredith is dead, Rudy has left and the cottage is dark and quiet by 10:30 PM when the car broke down across the street.

 

[HumanityBlues]

Even if you believe there was only one person involved (Guede) what your saying is between 9:15 and 10:15 he: broke into the apartment, sexually assulted Meredith, murdered Meredith after what was a significant struggle, undress her, got towels from the bathroom, took off his shoes, put on his shoes, took the lamp from Amanda's room, used the toilet (long enough in the batroom to use his iPod), moved the body, cleaned up in the bathroom, took Meredith's key, phones, locked her door without turning around, locked the front door and was already halfway to the place the phones were dumped.

Am I missing anything?

Also, there is no evidence that Meredith was attacked the moment she walked in the door, pushing the time back even further.

Sorry, I just don't think one hour is enough time for one person to do all
that, especially under the stress of just having committed a murder. Even the act of locking the doors would have been time consuming considering he was not familiar with them. Also, didn't he mention getting the towels to stop her bleeding? Add more time for that.

If you're right that the phones were on their way to their final destination at 10:15 it makes more sense that three people, not one, could do everything in a hour.

C'mon. The way you're listing this is kind of deceptive. It's nice rhetorically I guess, but at the end of the day all that could easily take just 20 minutes. Moreover, you just assume Rudy was actually in the bathroom listening to his iPod? Why? Cause Rudy said so? So if we take that out of the equation (it seems like you're adding a lot of time for this very difficult activity....) can we then subtract 10 minutes? Taking the lamp from Amanda's room, that would take what? 20 minutes? The rest of what you mention I guess intuitively the way you describe it would take a long time....but at the end of the day that's not substantiated at all really either. The fact of the matter is pretty much everything you mention could have happened incredibly quickly, but because you've listed it, it deceptively asks the reader to think all these things take forever.

 

[Alt+F4]

The most important thing you are missing is the proposition that Guede broke into the house before 9pm. In this theory, Meredith disturbed Guede when she arrived home at around 9pm (while Guede was using the toilet, most probably), and she was attacked and murdered shortly after that time (9.05-9.15pm). So that still leaves plenty of time for Guede to have cleaned himself up, rifled through Meredith's belongings, moved her body and left the house through the front door.

Your argument is that the time of death was between 9:00 and 9:30. Even if he attacked her the second she walked in the door she would not have been dead by 9:30. She bled to death slowly after being sexually assulted stabbed. The Rudy acting alone theory has to contain a significant amount of time for a struggle. Meredith didn't just stand there and do nothing.

I remember another post where someone said there was actually little signs of a struggle, so it's either one of two things. He murdered her alone and there was a long struggle making it very unlikey he could have dumped the phones by 10:13 or there was little stuggle because there were three killers, with a small struggle a 10:13 dump of the phones was possible.

Guede's unflushed faeces in the toilet (unflushed because Guede was trying to sneak out of the house undetected)

If he used the toilet before Meredith came home, why not flush it? He didn't seem to be very worried about being detected, after all, the theory is that he threw a big rock through a window. So flushing a toliet was thing he was afraid was gonna get him caugh? Come on now...

Meredith's aborted mobile phone call home to her parents just before 9pm (she was interrupted by the noise of Guede trying to open the front door, or confronted by Guede at her bedroom door)

So Rudy tried the door at 9pm, it was locked so he searches around for a rock, throws it through the window, climbs up the side of the building and into Filomena's room. And you still believe Meredith was dead by 9:30?

If he confronted her at her bedroom door that would mean he was in the apartment prior to 9. I thought (but I could be wrong) that he had an alibi for up to 9:15.

The closed-in exterior shutters in Filomena's room (Guede closed them in himself after breaking in, so as to conceal the broken window - which would also be why Meredith noticed nothing amiss when she returned home)

Again, something else that took time.

The curious aborted calls from Meredith's UK mobile phone to her bank and her voicemail at around 10pm (Guede fiddling with the phone, perhaps trying to turn it off)

He did everything else and still had time to fiddle with the phone?

The incoming MMS from the base station which the phone had never before connected when situated inside Meredith's room (Guede moving way from the house, carrying the two mobile phones, before dumping them)

Since Meredith's phone never conneced with that tower before it's more likely that the phone was almost to it's final destination. How far away is the garden? A ten minute walk maybe (and yes, the person would have to walk to avoid suspecion). That means the person leaving with the phones would have had to leave the apartment no later than 10:05. Considering the fact that Meredith might have entered the apartment as late as 9:15, you're looking at 50 minutes for one person to do everything. I don't think so.

The apparently open front door discovered by Knox the next morning (Guede would almost certainly not have known that the front door needed to be locked using the key, so it's reasonable to suggest that he might just have pulled it shut behind him when leaving)

How can you be certain knew the door needed to be locked with a key?

The testimony of the people whose car broke down outside the girls' house, who testified collectively that there was no sound or light within the girls' house for the entire duration of their wait to be towed away - between 10.30pm and 11.15pm - and neither did anybody enter or leave the house during that period.

The person who left with the phones probably left the apartment around 10:00 so the people waiting to be towed wouldn't have seen that person anyway.

 

[Alt+F4]

Point out to me again where I said that her time of death was 9pm?

Post # 4023