Merged The NPT (no planes theory) Discussed / Septemberclues

Obwon

New Blood
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
9
The most interesting thing about the NPT is that, since you cannot prove a negative, it's proof lay only in it's ability to explain the collection of 9-11 events, better than any other theory. It's tricky business, made even trickier, because all it would take to disprove it entirely, is hard evidence that planes actually hit the towers.

I came up with the NPT quite a while back. I began to consider it as a possibility, not because of the videos of the aircraft, as much as because of the behavior of the so called skyjackers, their exhibited lack of skills and training, and finally because their ranks had been thinned by the discovery that nine of them were still alive, had nothing to do with 9-11, and one of them has died a year before 9-11-2001. So, with 4 planes to populate and only 9 skyjackers to do it, something seemed very wrong indeed with the official story. Rather than bother to guess which skyjackers were on which planes, I decided to take the "quick n dirty" route and simply read the transcripts of the calls from the planes. Sure enough, the entire remaining 9 skyjackers can be accounted for between the two WTC jets.

So, if we assume that no one is lying on these planes, then we have two other planes with no skyjackers on board, but yet they've strayed from their flight plan. Well, that simply doesn't make any sense at all, since we can't assume that the flight crew took over the planes and engaged a suicide mission. Yet, here we have a fatal conflict; either the "calls from the planes" are fake or American flight crews took over and engaged these attacks themselves. Obviously this forces the conclusion that the calls are fakes.

So now we must move to examine the rationale for mounting the extreme difficulties involved in providing faked calls from the aircraft. The only logical answer is: To buttress the illusion of planes being involved!

Hold on just a minute, before you question how I came to that conclusion! Examine the situation and the extreme gravity of it! Here you are plotting a major terrorist attack, that will be shown on worldwide media. To avoid getting caught, and to successfully blame the intended parties, you must avoid making any gross mistakes that cannot be corrected by a propaganda machine.

Now, let's try to get a handle on the resources of these planners. For that we take a look at the rather chintzy resources made available to the fall guys, Mohammad Atta and friends. They like to drink, they like to gamble and they like stripper bars and clubs. But rather than being the free spending patsies you'd expect them to be, they're going to cheap joints and eating pizza. These planners own no jets and their plans at various points exhibit the artifacts of a cash strapped/low budget operation. Paltry funds wired to the skyjackers, are unspent and returned. Of course, it goes without saying that these guys do not exhibit the devoted mien of the Islamic fundamentalist they're supposed to be. So this is not an operation with an unlimited budget. You don't give funds to men you expect to commit a suicide mission, then ask for those funds back, most especially if they know they're to commit suicide. While on the other hand, if they don't know that, then you have no guarantee of their performance. Triple that for gambling, womanizing lushes.

Okay, so now we're ready to examine the conditions surrounding the nature of the plans. Do we use planes or not? No, it doesn't make sense! We don't have the pilots to fly them, first off, and secondly: what if they miss?

Here some will suggest that some sort of remote technology might be employed! Well, there's a few things that mitigate against it. Not the least of which is the incredible 510 knot speed of flight 11 and the 400 knot speed of flight 175. Both of these speeds are beyond the design capacity of these aircraft, which simply means, neither of these aircraft could function as they should during these times when design specs are exceeded. The wings flutter, the control surfaces lose their "laminar air flow", they stall, and generally there is no control of the aircraft possible. Yet, the video shows, that while these craft have no operating control surfaces, they engage quite precision maneuvers. Maneuvers that should be impossible at those speeds, even for a robotic device.

Now let's have a look at the options:

Obtain 4 aircraft and prep them with remote capabilities?
Too much could go wrong, all the way from chance discovery, to sub
spec equipment, timeline/delivery failure. Real passengers and pilots would be too unpredictable, if left alive they might somehow thwart your control of the craft, meaning it misses the target and leaves you exposed to devastating discovery.

Another thing is that these real planes would be "seen" by NORAD, CENTCOM and a whole host of other radar tracking stations that litter the northeast. It's hard to predict how any "stand down" order will actually perform with so many stations looking on JFK and NWK for example.

But then there's a much more serious impediment to the actual use of planes. To kill the passengers, to ensure success, all you need to do is depressurize the aircraft at or above 30,000 ft. But, if you do that, you must be absolutely certain that the evidence of that is destroyed completely. No only does a crash into the towers not do that, but worse yet is the fact that the greater NY airspace is literally crawling with private aircraft and helicopter etc., any one of which can collide with your wayward jet and leave a rather terrible evidence trail behind.

So, for an operation that requires 100% guarantee that aircraft appear to strike the two towers, with absolute certainty, only by not using planes and by substituting illusion can this effect be securely achieved.

Now this would explain, for an event where planes were actually supposed to have been flown into the towers, why would anyone allow fake video appear on the air? You have real video of a real event, why call it into question by releasing fake video? For that matter, why even bother with "calls from the planes" which only provide another avenue of challenge?

The answer of course is, because there was no other way to create the desired impression. If there were planes no fake anything would have been needed. Video of passengers boarding the planes, and video of them crashing into the towers would have sufficed. But, only if there were no planes, would fake and false evidence be required or allowed, because it was needed.

Imagine if neither plane hit either tower! Do you think they could simply take them down and go on with the show? How? If the planes don't hit they've lost their Islamic fundie skyjackers, if the towers come down then, someone else has to be the blame. The old "van full of explosives in the basement garage" just won't do it this time around.

So, if this is true and no planes were used, then all of the videos have to be fake. Since we already know that the calls from the planes were fake, we have a very good bet going that all of the videos will be fake as well. Like I said, you don't fake things when you have the real McCoy in hand.
Inversely, when you don't have anything real to show, then all you have is fake.

I'll be waiting to see those real videos of the real planes. I can't see them being forth coming because, all the ones they showed the public on 9-11 tv were fakes. Yes, and I know that there were "eyewitnesses" who say they saw what the cameras couldn't film. Which would you believe?
 
The most interesting thing about the NPT is that, since you cannot prove a negative, it's proof lay only in it's ability to explain the collection of 9-11 events, better than any other theory.

This is where I stopped reading. You saved several of us a lot of time laying it out in your first sentence.

Thanks for that.
 
... their ranks had been thinned by the discovery that nine of them were still alive, had nothing to do with 9-11, and one of them has died a year before 9-11-2001.

Do you have any... what's it called... umm... oh yeah: evidence for this claim?

Apart from that, cool story but I've read better, it's a bit disjointed and paranoid.
 
The most interesting thing about the NPT is that, since you cannot prove a negative, it's proof lay only in it's ability to explain the collection of 9-11 events, better than any other theory. It's tricky business, made even trickier, because all it would take to disprove it entirely, is hard evidence that planes actually hit the towers.

So much misinformation, so little time.

Troll much?
 
Dan Brown, is that you? Brainstorming for you next fantasy thriller?
 
the evidence for NPT, is pathetic and borders on insanity and severe mental illness.

.....or CIA/Mossad disinfo.

:)
 
If there were no planes involved, where are the missing passengers, crew and aircraft?
 
they..

never...

existed!!!!

:)

Which means

- both airlines with many of their departments, employees and management are in on it (technical maintenance, booking, flight handling, catering, HR office, baggage claims...)
- the airports are in on it (security check, ...)
- the insurers are in on it (for claims or no claims about planes, lives, damages)
- The FBI is in on it
- NTSB is in on it
- The FAA is in on it
- The coroners are all in on it
- The mobile phone carriers are in on it
- The military is in on it
- NIST is in on it
- The geology department at Columbia U. is in on it
- The news media are all in on it
- Many of the alleged passenger's families, friends and employers are in on it
- Al Quaida is in on it
- BigAl is in on it

This amounts to several tens of thousands potential leaks.

We also have
- The population of 5 NYC burroughs and neighbourung areas in NJ are largely in on it

Now we are in the millions.
 
You have earned the "quickest person to go on my ignore list" Obwon. I didn't have to read anything more then the first 2-3 lines of your post.

Buh By

TAM:)
 
...
the discovery that nine of them were still alive, had nothing to do with 9-11, and one of them has died a year before 9-11-2001.

... there were "eyewitnesses" who say they saw what the cameras couldn't film. Which would you believe?

Did not get a single thing right! Over 8 years preparation to make an idiotic post based on delusions. If this is indicative of all your work, you might want to call mom and tell her you might not be getting that PhD.

Having the same name as another person, does not make you alive when you are dead.
Having the same name and being dead a year before does not make you dead.

Calling the people liars who saw aircraft impact the WTC and Pentagon, is cowardly behind their backs. A poster at JREF saw Flight 175 impact the WTC. I believe him and I believe you are making up moronic lies.
 
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Which means

- both airlines with many of their departments, employees and management are in on it (technical maintenance, booking, flight handling, catering, HR office, baggage claims...)
- the airports are in on it (security check, ...)
- the insurers are in on it (for claims or no claims about planes, lives, damages)
- The FBI is in on it
- NTSB is in on it
- The FAA is in on it
- The coroners are all in on it
- The mobile phone carriers are in on it
- The military is in on it
- NIST is in on it
- The geology department at Columbia U. is in on it
- The news media are all in on it
- Many of the alleged passenger's families, friends and employers are in on it
- Al Quaida is in on it
- BigAl is in on it

This amounts to several tens of thousands potential leaks.

We also have
- The population of 5 NYC burroughs and neighbourung areas in NJ are largely in on it

Now we are in the millions.

All the pilots who ever flew the aircraft are in on it, they keep a log.
Plus the Manufacturers of the aircraft and the sub contractors are in on it.

This keeps growing!
 



Lord Kelvin (1895): Heavier than air flying machines impossible

Indeed, eight years before Orville and Wilbur Wright took their home-built flyer to the sandy dunes of Kitty Hawk, cranked up the engine, and took off into the history books, Lord Kelvin, the President of the Royal Society of England made a forceful declaration. "Heavier than air flying machines are impossible," said this very powerful man of science
http://ipbiz.blogspot.com/2007/09/lord-kelvin-1895-heavier-than-air.html


The conspiracy widens. The plan started in 1903. Come on who would be so dastardly as to name their sons Orville and Wilbur?
 
Originally Posted by Obwon
The most interesting thing about the NPT is that, since you cannot prove a negative, it's proof lay only in it's ability to explain the collection of 9-11 events, better than any other theory.
This is where I stopped reading. You saved several of us a lot of time laying it out in your first sentence.

Thanks for that.

Yep. That's just about how far I made it as well. I have absolutely ZERO patience for No Plane delusions. It was very nice of Obwon to let us know how crazy he was right off the bat though. Saved a lot of useless reading.
 
Did not get a single thing right! Over 8 years preparation to make an idiotic post based on delusions. If this is indicative of all your work, you might want to call mom and tell her you might not be getting that PhD high school diploma.

ftfy
 
The most interesting thing about the NPT is that, since you cannot prove a negative, it's proof lay only in it's ability to explain the collection of 9-11 events, better than any other theory. It's tricky business, made even trickier, because all it would take to disprove it entirely, is hard evidence that planes actually hit the towers.

I came up with the NPT quite a while back. I began to consider it as a possibility, not because of the videos of the aircraft, as much as because of the behavior of the so called skyjackers, their exhibited lack of skills and training, and finally because their ranks had been thinned by the discovery that nine of them were still alive, had nothing to do with 9-11, and one of them has died a year before 9-11-2001. So, with 4 planes to populate and only 9 skyjackers to do it, something seemed very wrong indeed with the official story. Rather than bother to guess which skyjackers were on which planes, I decided to take the "quick n dirty" route and simply read the transcripts of the calls from the planes. Sure enough, the entire remaining 9 skyjackers can be accounted for between the two WTC jets.

So, if we assume that no one is lying on these planes, then we have two other planes with no skyjackers on board, but yet they've strayed from their flight plan. Well, that simply doesn't make any sense at all, since we can't assume that the flight crew took over the planes and engaged a suicide mission. Yet, here we have a fatal conflict; either the "calls from the planes" are fake or American flight crews took over and engaged these attacks themselves. Obviously this forces the conclusion that the calls are fakes.

So now we must move to examine the rationale for mounting the extreme difficulties involved in providing faked calls from the aircraft. The only logical answer is: To buttress the illusion of planes being involved!

Hold on just a minute, before you question how I came to that conclusion! Examine the situation and the extreme gravity of it! Here you are plotting a major terrorist attack, that will be shown on worldwide media. To avoid getting caught, and to successfully blame the intended parties, you must avoid making any gross mistakes that cannot be corrected by a propaganda machine.

Now, let's try to get a handle on the resources of these planners. For that we take a look at the rather chintzy resources made available to the fall guys, Mohammad Atta and friends. They like to drink, they like to gamble and they like stripper bars and clubs. But rather than being the free spending patsies you'd expect them to be, they're going to cheap joints and eating pizza. These planners own no jets and their plans at various points exhibit the artifacts of a cash strapped/low budget operation. Paltry funds wired to the skyjackers, are unspent and returned. Of course, it goes without saying that these guys do not exhibit the devoted mien of the Islamic fundamentalist they're supposed to be. So this is not an operation with an unlimited budget. You don't give funds to men you expect to commit a suicide mission, then ask for those funds back, most especially if they know they're to commit suicide. While on the other hand, if they don't know that, then you have no guarantee of their performance. Triple that for gambling, womanizing lushes.

Okay, so now we're ready to examine the conditions surrounding the nature of the plans. Do we use planes or not? No, it doesn't make sense! We don't have the pilots to fly them, first off, and secondly: what if they miss?

Here some will suggest that some sort of remote technology might be employed! Well, there's a few things that mitigate against it. Not the least of which is the incredible 510 knot speed of flight 11 and the 400 knot speed of flight 175. Both of these speeds are beyond the design capacity of these aircraft, which simply means, neither of these aircraft could function as they should during these times when design specs are exceeded. The wings flutter, the control surfaces lose their "laminar air flow", they stall, and generally there is no control of the aircraft possible. Yet, the video shows, that while these craft have no operating control surfaces, they engage quite precision maneuvers. Maneuvers that should be impossible at those speeds, even for a robotic device.

Now let's have a look at the options:

Obtain 4 aircraft and prep them with remote capabilities?
Too much could go wrong, all the way from chance discovery, to sub
spec equipment, timeline/delivery failure. Real passengers and pilots would be too unpredictable, if left alive they might somehow thwart your control of the craft, meaning it misses the target and leaves you exposed to devastating discovery.

Another thing is that these real planes would be "seen" by NORAD, CENTCOM and a whole host of other radar tracking stations that litter the northeast. It's hard to predict how any "stand down" order will actually perform with so many stations looking on JFK and NWK for example.

But then there's a much more serious impediment to the actual use of planes. To kill the passengers, to ensure success, all you need to do is depressurize the aircraft at or above 30,000 ft. But, if you do that, you must be absolutely certain that the evidence of that is destroyed completely. No only does a crash into the towers not do that, but worse yet is the fact that the greater NY airspace is literally crawling with private aircraft and helicopter etc., any one of which can collide with your wayward jet and leave a rather terrible evidence trail behind.

So, for an operation that requires 100% guarantee that aircraft appear to strike the two towers, with absolute certainty, only by not using planes and by substituting illusion can this effect be securely achieved.

Now this would explain, for an event where planes were actually supposed to have been flown into the towers, why would anyone allow fake video appear on the air? You have real video of a real event, why call it into question by releasing fake video? For that matter, why even bother with "calls from the planes" which only provide another avenue of challenge?

The answer of course is, because there was no other way to create the desired impression. If there were planes no fake anything would have been needed. Video of passengers boarding the planes, and video of them crashing into the towers would have sufficed. But, only if there were no planes, would fake and false evidence be required or allowed, because it was needed.

Imagine if neither plane hit either tower! Do you think they could simply take them down and go on with the show? How? If the planes don't hit they've lost their Islamic fundie skyjackers, if the towers come down then, someone else has to be the blame. The old "van full of explosives in the basement garage" just won't do it this time around.

So, if this is true and no planes were used, then all of the videos have to be fake. Since we already know that the calls from the planes were fake, we have a very good bet going that all of the videos will be fake as well. Like I said, you don't fake things when you have the real McCoy in hand.
Inversely, when you don't have anything real to show, then all you have is fake.

I'll be waiting to see those real videos of the real planes. I can't see them being forth coming because, all the ones they showed the public on 9-11 tv were fakes. Yes, and I know that there were "eyewitnesses" who say they saw what the cameras couldn't film. Which would you believe?

Um, yeah....troll much?
 
The most interesting thing about the NPT is that, since you cannot prove a negative, it's proof lay only in it's ability to explain the collection of 9-11 events, better than any other theory. ...

I did read on. But was a bit saddened not to find any of the following:

- an explanation of how the twin towers were first attacked, then demolished
- an explanation of who did it
- an explanation of why they did it
- an explanation of what created a hole near Shanksville, and why
- an explanation of what what hit the Pentagon, and why
- an explanation for why the airlines think they lost planes
- an explanation for why Boeing believes the airlines lost planes
- an explanation for why the insurances think the airlines lost planes
- an explanation for how all the private videos and photographs could have been faked
- an explanation of how phone calls can be faked without any relatives or mobile phone carriers suspecting anything
- an explanation of why the FAA and the military think they tracked planes
- an explanation of what happened to the alleged passengers or, if they did never existed, how this could be kept under cover when all of the names are known
- an explanation for all the plane debris found at three sites
- an explanation for the hundreds of published witness accounts. Many motorists near the Pentagon had a very clear sight and even identified the airline
- a theory

I think Obwon has a lot of work to do to convince me.
 
Cool story, bro.

ETA - Just for future reference, if you are going to post at places where people are ... using their brains, you should master the use of "its" in all its forms. You didn't even make it through the first sentence, and I knew where this was headed.
 
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...
Here some will suggest that some sort of remote technology might be employed! Well, there's a few things that mitigate against it. Not the least of which is the incredible 510 knot speed of flight 11 and the 400 knot speed of flight 175. Both of these speeds are beyond the design capacity of these aircraft, which simply means, neither of these aircraft could function as they should during these times when design specs are exceeded. The wings flutter, the control surfaces lose their "laminar air flow", they stall, and generally there is no control of the aircraft possible. Yet, the video shows, that while these craft have no operating control surfaces, they engage quite precision maneuvers. Maneuvers that should be impossible at those speeds, even for a robotic device.
...?
How do you know the design specs? Boeing does not give out the design specs. The FAA certifies the Plane for speeds, and the speed limits like Vmo are also for long life of the airframe. The reason for Vmo is much more complicated than your lie of a plane not functioning above that speed. When you fly on airlines the pilot might take the airframe to Vmo when he is behind, you can hear it (the rush of wind at high speed, the sound increases with increased speed) when you reach 10,000 feet and he accelerates from 250 KIAS to 350 KIAS to make up time when you are late. If Vmo was a dangerous limit pilots would not get close to it!

Flight 11 impacted at 470 KIAS or lower, you need to get your facts right. This speed is only slight over Vd, dive speed. Which the plane is certified for. Some Boeing planes have exceeded MACH 1 and did not crash. Flight 11 was barely over Vd; a certified speed.

WOW; you said 400 knots, it is not even Vd. You have failed to get one thing right. Need the FAA certification for a 767? I have it.

Flight 175 impacted at 590 KIAS or less which is not MACH 1. Boeing airliners have exceeded MACH 1 and not crashed. Did you get these moronic lies from Balsamo, who is the chief dolt at p4t failed pilots club of delusions?

You have no clue what wing flutter is, and why the planes did function on 911 above Vmo. The planes were over Vmo, but they do not crash, they still worked until the terrorists impacted buildings and flew into the ground because they were chicken. These planes were designed to fly at high speed, near .9 MACH. The control surfaces work well past your fake limits.

Do you have an ATP? Are you a pilot?

What are the limits for a 767?
 
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