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Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

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Where in the bloody heck is this guy getting 2.25 seconds anyway?

WTC7 took a total of approximately 14 seconds to fall, IIRC.

Remember the David Chandler threads? He correctly and accurately identified a period of free fall within the collapse. It was bounded by resisted collapse, but it was clearly there. If he would've stopped there, it would've been fine work, but it's the conclusion that he, and therefore other conspiracy addicts lept to that's deficient: That somehow, a small period of free fall within a larger period of resisted collapse somehow indicates intentional demolitions.

For some odd reason, free fall = demolitions to these guys.

Anyway, as was pointed out by pretty much everyone else who paid attention (and wasn't delusional), what it actually signified was nothing more than several floors failing as a unit. Thus, no resistence until that unit of floors impacted something. Nothing suspicious at all, and no change to the overall narrative, but heaven knows truthers will latch onto anything to forward "CD". :rolleyes:

ETA: Ah, Carlitos found the link. Cool.
 
Why do you refuse to explain why the windows didn't shatter?

Here's a physics experiment. Take a hammer, smash a window. See that?
Now take that same hammer and strike a steel girder with it. See how the steel girder easily withstands the same force that destroyed the window?

Now you need to explain how your magic explosives destroyed the steel frame of WTC7 but not the windows.

Undamaged windows means no steel-rending explosive blast waves, which in tunr means that the looney tunes theory that syphilitic inbred half-wit truthtards believe in cannot occur under the laws of physics.

And you don't need a university physics prof to explain this to you anymore than you need a trauma surgeon to tell you how to apply a band-aid.

Deal with it.
Good god! I have never said explosives were used to bring down WTC 7. So I do not have to explain how they were used. Is that simple enough for you? Your turn. Explain the free fall. Unless you can't that is.
 
I not only have highschool physics, but i have college level physics, in which i recieved a final grade of 90%. Therefore, as an expert, i can tell you with 100% certainty that the collapse of wtc7 as described by nist, did not violate the laws of physics.

Now, whats next?

TAM:)

But didn't all the visible corners of WTC7 drop at the same time ? And didn't NIST say it was a progressive collapse - by definition not all together at the same time.

So how could all the corners drop together ? Or if you think they didn't can you tell me the order that they dropped in ?
 
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Remember the David Chandler threads? He correctly and accurately identified a period of free fall within the collapse. It was bounded by resisted collapse, but it was clearly there. If he would've stopped there, it would've been fine work, but it's the conclusion that he, and therefore other conspiracy addicts lept to that's deficient: That somehow, a small period of free fall within a larger period of resisted collapse somehow indicates intentional demolitions.

For some odd reason, free fall = demolitions to these guys.

Anyway, as was pointed out by pretty much everyone else who paid attention (and wasn't delusional), what it actually signified was nothing more than several floors failing as a unit. Thus, no resistence until that unit of floors impacted something. Nothing suspicious at all, and no change to the overall narrative, but heaven knows truthers will latch onto anything to forward "CD". :rolleyes:

ETA: Ah, Carlitos found the link. Cool.

8 floors fell as a unit? Why was their no resisting structure in the way of those floors? The 8 floors below them also fell as a unit... good grief!
 
But didn't all the visible corners of WTC7 drop at the same time ? And didn't NIST say it was a progressive collapse...column-on-column-on-column etc ?

"Progressive collapse" is a technical term with a very specific meaning. You don't know what it is and you shouldn't use it.
 
Well that's good to know.

So I guess it must have been fire then.



Explain the 14+ seconds that it wasn't free falling.

Unless you can't, that is.

Er...when WTC 7 wasn't free falling it was encountering resistance from the structure. So you admit you, like NIST, can't explain the free fall period then?

BTW how does fire blow out 8 stories of structure?
 
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I've become increasingly interested in certain aspects of the 9/11 story. I have a book token for £15. I'm stuck between these three titles:-


Touching History: The Untold Story of the Drama That Unfolded in the Skies Over America on 9/11 by Lynn Spencer.

Who They Were: Inside the World Trade Center DNA Story: The Unprecedented Effort to Identify the Missing by Robert Shaler.

Firefight: Inside the Battle to Save the Pentagon on 9/11 by Patrick Creed and Rick Newman.


Have you read all or any of the above? If so, which would you recommend? I'm a layman in all the subjects so would like something not overly technical.

I'm edging toward the Shaler DNA story, but would like some input before I take the plunge.

TIA

Compus
 
The guy who 'found' the 2 second period of free fall said "therefore explosives."

cmatrix looks at the 2 second period of free fall and says "therefore ____________?"
 
The guy who 'found' the 2 second period of free fall said "therefore explosives."

cmatrix looks at the 2 second period of free fall and says "therefore ____________?"

...extra energy was added to the system to remove the resisting structure that should have been there. NIST and other crackpots ignore this massive anomaly thus subscribing to a theory that violates the (conservation) laws of physics.
 
@cmatrix

Given how incredibly complex the system (construction of WTC7 building) was, and how chaotic the collapse was (penthouse falling several seconds into building, indicating interior destruction going on well before the visible collapse), how do you know that "extra" energy was required? Can you point me to where this analysis has been done?

ETA - How much energy did the fire release, how much kinetic energy via debris hit the building, and therefore how much more was needed? That sort of thing.
 
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...extra energy was added to the system to remove the resisting structure that should have been there. NIST and other crackpots ignore this massive anomaly thus subscribing to a theory that violates the (conservation) laws of physics.




And then, we ask the question, "Added by what......?"
 
I've become increasingly interested in certain aspects of the 9/11 story. I have a book token for £15. I'm stuck between these three titles:-


Touching History: The Untold Story of the Drama That Unfolded in the Skies Over America on 9/11 by Lynn Spencer.

Who They Were: Inside the World Trade Center DNA Story: The Unprecedented Effort to Identify the Missing by Robert Shaler.

Firefight: Inside the Battle to Save the Pentagon on 9/11 by Patrick Creed and Rick Newman.


Have you read all or any of the above? If so, which would you recommend? I'm a layman in all the subjects so would like something not overly technical.

I'm edging toward the Shaler DNA story, but would like some input before I take the plunge.

TIA

Compus

I've only read Firefight and I found it absolutely first-rate.
 
Once Again for the Physics Challenged

In order for a demolition's procedure to cause 8 storeys to go into free fall it would be required to remove the support NOT just of one or two storeys but all columns in all 8 storeys.(Seems to me I counted well over 100 required, very closely timed, severings)

This amounts to many dozens of cutting charges of some sort. Explosives will HAVE TO be large enough to sever these columns, some of which are quite large. A thermite melting is a slow process and cannot be timed.
Thermitic material used in an EXPLOSIVE will increase the heat output and the velocity of the expanding gasses which will still make a very very loud BOOM!

However, if the core columns failed, and they most certainly did as evidenced by the progression (yes Bill, it did progress) of central collapse seen at the rooftop prior to the collapse of the north face, then the cantilever trusses over the pre-existing Con-Ed building will have lost their major support at their south end. This would cause the lower 8 storeys to buckle outward(to the north) and at some point the remaining columns on the north side of the building would be basically useless with the vast majority of the weight above them no longer bearing anywhere close to axially on them.

SO, Nist says col 79 failed initiating a vertical progression(there's that word again Bill) at the location of col 79 and up to the roof where we see the east penthouse fall in. The debris from this vertically progressing (there it is again) failure is impacting proximate areas of the floors and columns and failing them resulting in a horizontal progression (wow its still there and we have not even gotten to the final 3 seconds of the collapse yet) which sees the core structure being badly damaged and failing.
Had this been a typical post and beam construction this might have ended there BUT it was far from that. The cantilever (look up that word) trusses were required to take the added weight of 40 more storeys and keep that added weight from crushing the Con-Ed structure. The existing columns of the Con-ed were bolstered as well but were never expected to have to hold the entire mass of 40 storeys. As progressive supports at the south end of the cantilever trusses fail, more and more mass is now being supported by columns never designed to do so. At some point during this horozontal progression (:eye-poppi)of core failure the south most columns of the Con-Ed structure will fail adding more load to the remaining ones and so on, which means a very quick tilting of the cantilever trusses, the northward buckling of the north wall below the 8th floor and the essentially zero load bearing capacity of , now, radically tilted, and/or buckled, and/or snapped columns.

The rest of the building goes BOOM.

In fact had Bill or cmatrix bothered to peruse the thread discussing Chandler's use of the physics tool kit they would know by now that a period of free fall does indeed indicate very little(or nothing at all) about what caused the global collapse.


There IS one way for some nefarious planting of column severing devices to cause this to occur exactly as seen;
simply fail col 79 and then , progressively, the other core columns.
Of course you come right back to the problem of silent explosives or remarkably timed thermite severing of vertical structures.
 
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Explain the 2.25 seconds of free fall.

i will.

The 2.25 seconds of free fall merely means that at that point in the analysis part or all of the building was falling without any resistance. What happened to the rest of the collapse? Why was the entire collapse not in free fall? Also, please so me where any period of free fall within the collapse of a building MUST BE CAUSED by Controlled demolition. I fail to see where a period of free fall within a collapse MUST MEAN that controlled demolition was used. Please, enlighten me.

Thanks in advance.

TAM:)
 
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No analysis is needed just two simple facts any non-moron should easily understand: 1) free fall means no resistance. 2) normal office fires can't blow out 8 stories of structure simultaneously. If fire didn't do it something else did which is not acknowledged in the US government's official crackpot loony theory. So their crackpot theory violates the (conservation) laws of physics. Only violently obtuse crackpots like JREFtards believe in such insane theories.

I don't appreciate the tone or the substance of your response. My question was pretty basic - how do you know that "extra" energy was required? If I were to claim that extra energy is required, I would show:

How much energy would be required,
less​
How much energy there was,
to get​
How much "extra" energy would be required.


It's simple logic. No name-calling required.




X kazillion joules
less
Y kazillion joules

Therefore (x-y) kajillion joules required. Now we can start figuring a source for the extra joules.
 
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i will.

The 2.25 seconds of free fall merely means that at that point in the analysis part or all of the building was falling without any resistance. What happened to the rest of the collapse? Why was the entire collapse not in free fall? Also, please so me where any period of free fall within the collapse of a building MUST BE CAUSED by Controlled demolition. I fail to see where a period of free fall within a collapse MUST MEAN that controlled demolition was used. Please, enlighten me.

Thanks in advance.

TAM:)

You don't explain the free fall in any way. You just sidestep it like everyone else here. I never ever said the collapse was caused by CD. Read the thread to see for yourself. What I said was the collapse required more energy than was available by fire alone. This extra energy is ignored by the official crackpot theory and therefore it violates the (conservation) laws of physics.
 
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