Bigfoot crossing guards. Mostly retired bigfoots. Take it very seriously. Wear orange vests, carry little stop signs. sit on little chairs. Especially vigilant when bigfoot school lets out. Give drivers dirty looks.
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Bigfoot crossing guards. Mostly retired bigfoots. Take it very seriously. Wear orange vests, carry little stop signs. sit on little chairs. Especially vigilant when bigfoot school lets out. Give drivers dirty looks.
Finally we're getting our priorities straight in this thread. I mean, we have to think of the children.
it actually is illogical. Logic says that if europeans killed gorillas in deepest Africa within a matter of a year or two of penetrating their habitat a century ago, then Europeans (and all that have come since) should have killed (with much more killing equipment) an even larger primate, which is more widespread, with much more accessible habitat, more people searching, in North America, in the three hundred odd years since history was recorded here.
William Parcher
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Scott Herriot says he saw a Bigfoot whose eyes glowed red (actually produced the light, not reflected it). I just listened to a recent radio show with him, Bipto and Paul Vella.
At about 1/3 into the show Scott says (hopefully quoting him accurately)...
Bipto goes on to say that many other credible reports contain the feature of glowing eyes (again, not reflecting light). I've never heard of lemurs that have bioluminescent eyes, let alone any other mammal. I couldn't find anything on the web. Does anyone else besides Scott know about this?
At about 1/3 into the show Scott says (hopefully quoting him accurately)...
Bipto goes on to say that many other credible reports contain the feature of glowing eyes (again, not reflecting light). I've never heard of lemurs that have bioluminescent eyes, let alone any other mammal. I couldn't find anything on the web. Does anyone else besides Scott know about this?
kitakaze
Resident DJ/NSA Supermole
I have talked with Scott at length about his experience. He is adamant that the eyes of the grey creature he saw glowed red, not reflected. I mostly listened and told him that I really don't know what to do with it. It simply did not make any biological sense whatsoever. He agreed that it made no sense and tried to think of animals with glowing eyes. I don't know exactly what Scott experienced, but I don't think he lied about what he saw. He may remember it differently, in an exaggerated way, or I don't know what. Was he hoaxed? From what I remember of what he told me, it seemed unlikely. He thought there was more than one creature. Are there grey Bigfoots in the Klamath Mountains emitting red light from their eyes? Certainly not. No more than there are ghosts and lizardmen running about. In the end, it really is not something I can address without more evidence. Just another wonky story that makes no sense.
HarryHenderson
Graduate Poster
Does it really matter?
William Parcher
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Well in this radio show from a few weeks ago he says that they might have reflected red. He does think they literally glowed however.
Your name came up in the show as they were talking about the PGF for a bit near the end. Bipto of course thinks it's real and won't accept info to the contrary unless it's some form of proof. I get the impression that he thinks you are putting up more of the same old stuff and it won't be any kind of concrete thing. He wants something like the suit itself or "a photo of BH wearing the suit without the headpiece smoking a cigarette." He would also accept a confession by BG or PP. So it looks like you will not win Bipto unless you have a true Royal Flush in your hand. We already knew that.
kitakaze
Resident DJ/NSA Supermole
I'll have to listen to that when I have the time. I understand what diehard believers like Brian want and that's fine. They are as attached to the film as I used to be. They want proof and so do I. The difference being that I have working plans to get it because I know it is there. I think proof could come in a number of ways. I know for certain it won't come from a shot of Bob in the suit with the head off. I know Brian did not mean that literally, but to be clear, Roger did not start filming until Bob had the suit on and stopped filming before the suit came off, naturally.
The Bigfooters who think I've rehashed old things I understand, as well. I've done a mountain of rehashing. I've rehashed tons of extremely important things to understand Roger and his Bigfoot hoaxing. I've also uncovered things that I personally think are of massive importance. Maybe they are of little relevance to most believers, but to others they can see the writing on the wall. I've spoken with Bob Heironimus for months. I've spoken with three people who saw the suit that Bob brought back from Bluff Creek. I have spoken with three people that were there when Bob approached DeAtley at the Saddle Tree in 1970 to try and get the money Roger promised him. I've found through talking with the people around Bob Heironimus that the relationship and connections to Roger Patterson go far deeper than we ever knew from Long's book. I found that Howard Heironimus lived with Patty Patterson and her brother Bruce Mondor when Roger first met Patty. Howard has claimed to witness Roger practicing faking tracks at his home using the exact same sort of methods and objects described by Harvey Anderson and as found by Jerry Merritt at his home in Yakima.
What I am doing now is trying to put together a project that I can promo to a production and get funding to help achieve the things that are beyond my means alone. We have two men, Bob Gimlin and Bob Heironimus, that can not possibly both be telling the truth, regardless of what people might think to the contrary. One is lying and one is not. BH has numerous people that confirm the story he tells. BH will gladly face BG with his claims, while BG will not. We know BH was involved with RP and BG. We know that his horse was used at Bluff Creek. BH is the most serious threat to BG's claims and BG will not do anything more than make pat dismissals amongst his supporters. BG will come out swinging over ludicrous massacre theories, but not something as important as what has come from BH.
The going is slow and I do what I can in the time I have to give to it. I have people behind the scenes that are assisting me in numerous ways. These people have been invaluable. I see that the Gimlin Guard has become very nervous and are doing what they can to try and protect their "American hero." I have no animosity or dislike for Bob Gimlin. If he could refute BH's claims in any meaningful way, I will surely give it the same attention I give to BH's claims. I have no desire to feud with the Gimlin Guard. I think they could guard Gimlin much, much better if he was really telling the truth. If I was Tom Yamarone, I would gladly pay for a professional trained in detecting deception to interview both BG and BH. They won't do it so I will if BG will talk as readily as he does to his supporters at the many events he attends featuring him. That is something I want to feature in Walking With Bigfoot. In the end, I think end of the PGF controversy is inevitable as long as people around the principles remain committed to seeking that end.
The Bigfooters who think I've rehashed old things I understand, as well. I've done a mountain of rehashing. I've rehashed tons of extremely important things to understand Roger and his Bigfoot hoaxing. I've also uncovered things that I personally think are of massive importance. Maybe they are of little relevance to most believers, but to others they can see the writing on the wall. I've spoken with Bob Heironimus for months. I've spoken with three people who saw the suit that Bob brought back from Bluff Creek. I have spoken with three people that were there when Bob approached DeAtley at the Saddle Tree in 1970 to try and get the money Roger promised him. I've found through talking with the people around Bob Heironimus that the relationship and connections to Roger Patterson go far deeper than we ever knew from Long's book. I found that Howard Heironimus lived with Patty Patterson and her brother Bruce Mondor when Roger first met Patty. Howard has claimed to witness Roger practicing faking tracks at his home using the exact same sort of methods and objects described by Harvey Anderson and as found by Jerry Merritt at his home in Yakima.
What I am doing now is trying to put together a project that I can promo to a production and get funding to help achieve the things that are beyond my means alone. We have two men, Bob Gimlin and Bob Heironimus, that can not possibly both be telling the truth, regardless of what people might think to the contrary. One is lying and one is not. BH has numerous people that confirm the story he tells. BH will gladly face BG with his claims, while BG will not. We know BH was involved with RP and BG. We know that his horse was used at Bluff Creek. BH is the most serious threat to BG's claims and BG will not do anything more than make pat dismissals amongst his supporters. BG will come out swinging over ludicrous massacre theories, but not something as important as what has come from BH.
The going is slow and I do what I can in the time I have to give to it. I have people behind the scenes that are assisting me in numerous ways. These people have been invaluable. I see that the Gimlin Guard has become very nervous and are doing what they can to try and protect their "American hero." I have no animosity or dislike for Bob Gimlin. If he could refute BH's claims in any meaningful way, I will surely give it the same attention I give to BH's claims. I have no desire to feud with the Gimlin Guard. I think they could guard Gimlin much, much better if he was really telling the truth. If I was Tom Yamarone, I would gladly pay for a professional trained in detecting deception to interview both BG and BH. They won't do it so I will if BG will talk as readily as he does to his supporters at the many events he attends featuring him. That is something I want to feature in Walking With Bigfoot. In the end, I think end of the PGF controversy is inevitable as long as people around the principles remain committed to seeking that end.
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kitakaze
Resident DJ/NSA Supermole
I listened to the bit of the show William referenced. I think that being called "kitakakis" is not quite as fun as "Keyser Söze," but I'll take it.
- I'm interested in the anonymous person Scott referred to as saying they have come close to replicating the PGF with 60's tech. This couldn't be Leroy Blevins. I highly doubt it, anyway.
- I have mentioned before that Bill Munns and I agreed to cooperate on his recreation of the suit and possibly feature it in WWB. I am asking Phil Morris to do a full recreation of the suit with all the time he needs to make it right and then get gear to film the suit.
- I think it's somewhat interesting that Brian says he doesn't care if you prove the Roger had a Bigfoot suit. I think it matters very much because of not only the PGF but the shennanigans happening around Yakima such as at Jerry Merritt's. The suit Jerry described sounded somewhat like the PGF suit. I understand what Brian means, though. He says he knows BF researchers with suits. Is this for Bugs Bunny baiting tactics? Regardless, one has to accept that finding a suit is not enough. It has to be undoubtedly the suit. And if you did find a suit that would be highly likely to be the suit used in the PGF, what kind of shape is it going to be after 43 years. Very easily it could be in horrible shape, right?
- I doubt Brian would be very interested, but I would immediately accept Scott's suggestion to have another Bigfoot Show on the PGF featuring Scott, Brian, and myself. I know exactly what I would be in for. Brian will accept nothing but a Royal Flush. Nonetheless, I would like the chance in a speaking engagement format to engage both Scott and Brian on the subject. Brian says he doesn't want to hear about what a jerk Roger was, and I would oblige. I would talk nothing about any douchebaggery on Roger's part, but rather what we have that strongly points to Roger hoaxing in Yakima and the evidence that he planted the tracks in Bluff Creek that he said brought him back there. What I would enjoy most is discussing giving Brian the Royal Flush he wants and how to get it.
- I'm interested in the anonymous person Scott referred to as saying they have come close to replicating the PGF with 60's tech. This couldn't be Leroy Blevins. I highly doubt it, anyway.
- I have mentioned before that Bill Munns and I agreed to cooperate on his recreation of the suit and possibly feature it in WWB. I am asking Phil Morris to do a full recreation of the suit with all the time he needs to make it right and then get gear to film the suit.
- I think it's somewhat interesting that Brian says he doesn't care if you prove the Roger had a Bigfoot suit. I think it matters very much because of not only the PGF but the shennanigans happening around Yakima such as at Jerry Merritt's. The suit Jerry described sounded somewhat like the PGF suit. I understand what Brian means, though. He says he knows BF researchers with suits. Is this for Bugs Bunny baiting tactics? Regardless, one has to accept that finding a suit is not enough. It has to be undoubtedly the suit. And if you did find a suit that would be highly likely to be the suit used in the PGF, what kind of shape is it going to be after 43 years. Very easily it could be in horrible shape, right?
- I doubt Brian would be very interested, but I would immediately accept Scott's suggestion to have another Bigfoot Show on the PGF featuring Scott, Brian, and myself. I know exactly what I would be in for. Brian will accept nothing but a Royal Flush. Nonetheless, I would like the chance in a speaking engagement format to engage both Scott and Brian on the subject. Brian says he doesn't want to hear about what a jerk Roger was, and I would oblige. I would talk nothing about any douchebaggery on Roger's part, but rather what we have that strongly points to Roger hoaxing in Yakima and the evidence that he planted the tracks in Bluff Creek that he said brought him back there. What I would enjoy most is discussing giving Brian the Royal Flush he wants and how to get it.
mikeyx
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Everybody knows they swing on vines, come on people!
It's hard to imagine what purpose any bioluminescence near the eye would serve, but a reflective layer behind the retina aids in night sight, and that's what one finds with the lemur.
William Parcher
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I think I've seen you say multiple times now on the BFF that one of them must be a liar. But that isn't strictly true is it? I mean both of them could be lying, right? Gimlin could be lying about Patty being a real Bigfoot and Heironimus could be lying about being Patty.
I think we have at least a couple people here who think that the film is a hoax and that BH is not in the suit we see on film. That means both are liars.
William Parcher
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The aye-aye and the sportive lemur possess what is called tapetum lucidum. Both animals are lemurs from Madagascar. The TL increases the ability to see at night and also reflects light. This is called eyeshine. It does not produce or create its own light as in bioluminescence. Scott uses that term but there is no mammal with any bioluminescence.
Anyway, Scott thinks his Bigfoot has the same sort of eye thing going on as with these lemurs. Would that be a case of proposed convergent evolution, or that the Bigfoot lineage has carried the genes for TL since the days when they had common ancestry with these modern lemurs?
kitakaze
Resident DJ/NSA Supermole
You're right, and thank you for correcting me. We have at least one person that I can think of that thinks all Patterson, Gimlin, and Heironimus as well were lying - LTC8K6. If there is someone else, it's early in the morning and I have forgotten them in my fog. You believe BH, but you have suggested ways to find if he has been lying. I have never debated this subject with LTC, and if LTC still holds this position, and if he is interested, I wholeheartedly welcome a discussion with him on the subject. I am confident that I can show reasonably that BH has never lied about going to Bluff Creek to be filmed by RP and BG.
William Parcher
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I think I remember tube, desertyeti and mangler doubting BH. Do Radford and Loxton also go into that group? I could be wrong about any of these guys.
William Parcher
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EHocking
Penultimate Amazing
As a "torch" (flashlight to USAsans)
As I said previously (and we've discussed eye shine here before),
No animal has bioluminescent eyes.
The Shrike
Philosopher
A reflective tapedum occurs in all sorts of unrelated creatures. For example, owls, deer, and wolf spiders have TL, but that doesn't mean the trait was inherited from a common ancestor of birds, mammals, and arachnids.
Bigfoots could have a reflective tapedum - the trait has developed (presumably independently) in several nocturnal primates, and bigfoot stories frequently describe a creature most active at night. But glowing with their own light? No way.
My guess is that the glowing eye thing began some time ago as people mistook the big, forward-facing, glowing red eyes of owls to be those of a bigfoot. When you can't make out details in the woods, your brain will fill them in. An owl looking at you from a branch 10' off the ground can be misconstrued as a 10' tall bigfoot looking at you. Once glowing red eyes became incorporated into bigfoot lore, hoaxers were free to use that trait as something that could lend credibility to their ruse.
Was Scott hoaxed? Sure sounds like it, with a gray bigfoot (atypical color) sporting eyes that I'm pretty sure he's adamant were glowing, not reflecting.
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