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Oakland rules on pot

No, it won't.
Yes, it would.

I dunno about anyone else, but an oz of tobacco last about the same time as an oz of weed. An oz of tobacco would last me a week, at least, and when i'm smoking weed heavily an oz would be lucky to last a week and a half, maybe two weeks if I ration it.

ETA: Actually, I'm thinking of a 2-oz pouch of tobacco, my bad, but I still couldn't smoke an oz of tobacco in a day, that would make me sick as a dog.
A pack of standard cigarettes contains a bit more than an ounce of tobacco.

I thought you were getting the good weed, so why would you need to smoke nearly an ounce a week?
 
This depends on the percent of the plant that you smoke.
One tobacco plant yields ~3-4 ounces of cured tobacco. One marijuana plant can yield 8 oz. to well over a pound of cured marijuana.

So you'd actually need even more than a 60-fold space increase to grow your own tobacco vs. growing your own marijuana.
 
One tobacco plant yields ~3-4 ounces of cured tobacco. One marijuana plant can yield 8 oz. to well over a pound of cured marijuana.

So you'd actually need even more than a 60-fold space increase to grow your own tobacco vs. growing your own marijuana.

Ounces per square foot would be a better comparison. Or pounds per acre.
 
One tobacco plant yields ~3-4 ounces of cured tobacco. One marijuana plant can yield 8 oz. to well over a pound of cured marijuana.

So you'd actually need even more than a 60-fold space increase to grow your own tobacco vs. growing your own marijuana.

That would have to be a really big marijuana plant.

Which can happen if you grow them outdoors. The trade off you have to grow them for a really long time for the plant to get that large.

Growing indoors does have some important advantages. When you take total control of the environment you get to optimize everything. You can make it totally pest free, no risk of wind damage to delicate plants, you can have lights on for 24 hour growing, and you can optimize nutrition.

You make a valid point that no man-made light can compete with the power of the sun, but the other side is the man-made light is dependable where the sun is not. You can't have the sun on for 24 hours when you want it, and you can't make the days shorter when you want the plants to flower so you have to wait until nature does its thing before harvesting. Indoors, you can manipulate the grow cycle so you're harvesting a new crop every month if you want.
 
That would have to be a really big marijuana plant.

Which can happen if you grow them outdoors. The trade off you have to grow them for a really long time for the plant to get that large.

Also quality for size, a smaller plant tends to be more potent because it can focus it's energy into flowering and cannibinol production instead of woody growth.
 
That would have to be a really big marijuana plant.
Not particularly, some can produce 2 pounds.

Which can happen if you grow them outdoors. The trade off you have to grow them for a really long time for the plant to get that large.
Not necessarily, another month is the difference.

Growing indoors does have some important advantages. When you take total control of the environment you get to optimize everything.
Not necessarily... you can't optimize light, no artificial lights can compete with the sun for sheer lumen power. And more light means more energy for the plant to grow.

You can make it totally pest free, no risk of wind damage to delicate plants, you can have lights on for 24 hour growing, and you can optimize nutrition.
Pests are a huge problem in greenhouses, once a pest finds its way in they have no predators. Many greenhouses have to up their application of pesticides, or introduce predators like ladybugs or lacewings. But I suppose it's easy to keep out large pests like deer and rabbits. And you can optimize nutrition outdoors, farmers do it with every crop.

You make a valid point that no man-made light can compete with the power of the sun, but the other side is the man-made light is dependable where the sun is not. You can't have the sun on for 24 hours when you want it, and you can't make the days shorter when you want the plants to flower so you have to wait until nature does its thing before harvesting. Indoors, you can manipulate the grow cycle so you're harvesting a new crop every month if you want.
You could, but it's far more costly to do so and it's debateable whether there's any corresponding increase in quality.
 
You've never actually cultivated marijuana, have you?

Not particularly, some can produce 2 pounds.

Yeah, of ditch weed.

Not necessarily, another month is the difference.

More like 3-5 months difference.


Not necessarily... you can't optimize light, no artificial lights can compete with the sun for sheer lumen power. And more light means more energy for the plant to grow.

Yes you CAN optimise light, you can optimise light distribution and light duration, both of which have a HUGE effect on the quality of the product grown. Growing outdoors gives you LESS light, everything from hours in a day to cloud cover to unequal distribution of light can radically effect the overall light a plant receives. In optimal conditions you subject the plant to 24 hours of light for the first month or two of growth, tell me where in the world you can replicate those conditions in nature?

Pests are a huge problem in greenhouses, once a pest finds its way in they have no predators. Many greenhouses have to up their application of pesticides, or introduce predators like ladybugs or lacewings. But I suppose it's easy to keep out large pests like deer and rabbits. And you can optimize nutrition outdoors, farmers do it with every crop.

Pests are going to be a problem no matter where you grow, but it is true that indoor growing can be more risky in this respect however the benefits FAR outweigh the risks.

You could, but it's far more costly to do so

Yet commercial growers nearly to a man choose to grow indoors. Go figure! :rolleyes:

and it's debateable whether there's any corresponding increase in quality.

No it isn't. Not even remotely so. Indoor growing revolutionised the marijuana industry and revolutionised marijuana quality and control. There simply is no debate to be had in this respect.
 
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You've never actually cultivated marijuana, have you?


I have much experience in this type of agriculture, and WildCat's comments seem pretty accurate to me.

Yeah, of ditch weed.


It's odd that in every one of these conversations some Furry Freak Brothers stoner seems to be under the impression that their weed is the only weed worth smoking, and everything else is ditch weed. It's not a contest, bit_pattern. It's reality, with consumer trends, cultural attitudes, and economic models that are fairly well established with other recreational intoxicants and self medication.

More like 3-5 months difference.


You've never actually cultivated marijuana outdoors in the USA Midwest, have you? If you did, and if it took three to five months longer than what you grow in your basement, you did it wrong.

Yes you CAN optimise light, you can optimise light distribution and light duration, both of which have a HUGE effect on the quality of the product grown. Growing outdoors gives you LESS light, everything from hours in a day to cloud cover to unequal distribution of light can radically effect the overall light a plant receives. In optimal conditions you subject the plant to 24 hours of light for the first month or two of growth, tell me where in the world you can replicate those conditions in nature?


You can certainly approach that in Alaska where, by the way, some of the finest pot is grown indoors or out. But the point is, your Beevis and Butt-Head attitude, that there is some kind of optimum weed and everything else is crap, is your own subjective opinion, which you are certainly entitled to, and is objectively wrong.

Pests are going to be a problem no matter where you grow, but it is true that indoor growing can be more risky in this respect however the benefits FAR outweigh the risks.


In your unsubstantiated opinion. And when you eliminate the legal ramifications of prohibition, that will also eliminate by far the greatest risk that concerns growers and smokers in the USA.

Yet commercial growers nearly to a man choose to grow indoors. Go figure! :rolleyes:


When people aren't risking the confiscation of their homes and property for growing a few plants outdoors along the fence row, outdoor grown marijuana, of a quality acceptable to the vast majority of users and competitive with indoor grown pot, will be as ubiquitous as home grown tomatoes or cucumbers.

No it isn't. Not even remotely so. Indoor growing revolutionised the marijuana industry and revolutionised marijuana quality and control. There simply is no debate to be had in this respect.


That indoor grown marijuana sure is easier to hide from the law, isn't it? When that becomes a non-issue, when prohibition isn't a factor, and if a tax rate is applied that makes it uncomfortable for people to just buy it at the pharmacy or liquor store, people will grow pot in their back yards, tons of it. There aren't just two kinds of pot, the primo that gets you and your pals all googly eyed, and ditch weed. Quality is a continuum. There are lots of flavors. There is a variety of types of buzzes.

When commercial marijuana production and home grown pot becomes legal, the trend in choices will likely be similar to how we choose tobacco and beer. Billions of cigarettes are sold every year with names like Marlboro, Winston, Camel, and Pall Mall, and millions upon millions of gallons of beer get sold with names like Budweiser, Miller Lite, and Milwaukee’s Best. And although there are arguably more potent, better tasting beers and tobaccos, it only matters to a tiny fraction of consumers. And only a tiny fraction of marijuana smokers will care to emulate Beevis and Butt-Head and smoke until they puke. Understand that not everyone has your very narrow and subjective opinion on what is acceptable quality in marijuana, bit_pattern.
 
I have much experience in this type of agriculture, and WildCat's comments seem pretty accurate to me.

If you say so.


It's odd that in every one of these conversations some Furry Freak Brothers stoner seems to be under the impression that their weed is the only weed worth smoking, and everything else is ditch weed. It's not a contest, bit_pattern. It's reality, with consumer trends, cultural attitudes, and economic models that are fairly well established with other recreational intoxicants and self medication.

I find it strange that we can't have a discussion about something as straight forward as growing weed without the barrage of insults :rolleyes:

It is a statement of fact that larger plants put more energy into plant growth that could otherwise have been put into flower growth and cannibinol production


You've never actually cultivated marijuana outdoors in the USA Midwest, have you? If you did, and if it took three to five months longer than what you grow in your basement, you did it wrong.

You have a 4 month growing season in the Midwest? yeah, right :rolleyes:

You can certainly approach that in Alaska where, by the way, some of the finest pot is grown indoors or out. But the point is, your Beevis and Butt-Head attitude, that there is some kind of optimum weed and everything else is crap, is your own subjective opinion, which you are certainly entitled to, and is objectively wrong.

No, I am not wrong in the slightest. The level of environmental control available to indoor growers has created a revolution in selective breeding. And I am willing to bet my left teste that the VAST majority of quality strains being grown in America were developed by Dutch and Canadian growers working indoors.

In your unsubstantiated opinion. And when you eliminate the legal ramifications of prohibition, that will also eliminate by far the greatest risk that concerns growers and smokers in the USA.

No. Go and research Sensi or Dutch Passion, these are the pioneers that made marijuana what it is today.


When people aren't risking the confiscation of their homes and property for growing a few plants outdoors along the fence row, outdoor grown marijuana, of a quality acceptable to the vast majority of users and competitive with indoor grown pot, will be as ubiquitous as home grown tomatoes or cucumbers.

Last time I checked we still have commercial tomato and cucumber markets. So what is your point exactly?

That indoor grown marijuana sure is easier to hide from the law, isn't it? When that becomes a non-issue, when prohibition isn't a factor, and if a tax rate is applied that makes it uncomfortable for people to just buy it at the pharmacy or liquor store, people will grow pot in their back yards, tons of it. There aren't just two kinds of pot, the primo that gets you and your pals all googly eyed, and ditch weed. Quality is a continuum. There are lots of flavors. There is a variety of types of buzzes.

You overestimate the motivational levels of your average stoner. I'm a busy professional and live in apartment, even if I could grow outdoors I couldn't be arsed spending 6-8 months nurturing plants and would happily pay a premium for quality-controlled, legal product, as would many, many other people. Just like I'm willing to pay the tax for a few cartons of beer than spending weeks brewing my own at home. There will always be a market out there.

When commercial marijuana production and home grown pot becomes legal, the trend in choices will likely be similar to how we choose tobacco and beer. Billions of cigarettes are sold every year with names like Marlboro, Winston, Camel, and Pall Mall, and millions upon millions of gallons of beer get sold with names like Budweiser, Miller Lite, and Milwaukee’s Best. And although there are arguably more potent, better tasting beers and tobaccos, it only matters to a tiny fraction of consumers. And only a tiny fraction of marijuana smokers will care to emulate Beevis and Butt-Head and smoke until they puke. Understand that not everyone has your very narrow and subjective opinion on what is acceptable quality in marijuana, bit_pattern.

That is your own subjective opinion, which you are certainly entitled to, and is objectively wrong.
 
Gee. Now that it's legal to grow weed in Michigan, I can't get the horticulturalists to agree on how to grow it. Ain't life grand?
 
If it was legal to buy then I wouldn't bother wasting my time on growing it, if I could just walk into a dispensary and buy selective strains grown by professionals then it would save a huge amount of time and hassle. Also, I'd have access to hundreds of strains, each with individual attributes, that I would never be able to achieve growing at home.
 
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Yeah, that's pretty silly on their part, but in my ideal world you wouldn't need a prescription, rather be over the age of 18 and of sound mind and body, or something like that.
 
You've never actually cultivated marijuana, have you?



Yeah, of ditch weed.
No.

More like 3-5 months difference.
Not even possible in a temperate climate.

Yes you CAN optimise light, you can optimise light distribution and light duration, both of which have a HUGE effect on the quality of the product grown. Growing outdoors gives you LESS light, everything from hours in a day to cloud cover to unequal distribution of light can radically effect the overall light a plant receives. In optimal conditions you subject the plant to 24 hours of light for the first month or two of growth, tell me where in the world you can replicate those conditions in nature?
LOL at your assertion that HID lights put out more lumens than sunlight!

Pests are going to be a problem no matter where you grow, but it is true that indoor growing can be more risky in this respect however the benefits FAR outweigh the risks.
What benefits? Greatly higher costs for marginal at best improvement?

Yet commercial growers nearly to a man choose to grow indoors. Go figure! :rolleyes:
I know! You don't see anyone growing vegetables outdoors any more.

Oh, wait... :rolleyes:

No it isn't. Not even remotely so. Indoor growing revolutionised the marijuana industry and revolutionised marijuana quality and control. There simply is no debate to be had in this respect.
Indoor growing protects illegal crops from police and thieves. That's the great benefit.
 
<snip>

Last time I checked we still have commercial tomato and cucumber markets. So what is your point exactly?
<snip>

No.


Not even possible in a temperate climate.


LOL at your assertion that HID lights put out more lumens than sunlight!


What benefits? Greatly higher costs for marginal at best improvement?


I know! You don't see anyone growing vegetables outdoors any more.

Oh, wait... :rolleyes:


Indoor growing protects illegal crops from police and thieves. That's the great benefit.


Bit_pattern's analogy to homegrown 'maters and cukes caught my eye, but I didn't comment at the time.

It did occur to me that a more appropriate analogy would be something like basil or some other herb ("herb". ;)).

Most people who grow their own tomatoes have fresh ones while the season is appropriate, and often pass off large quantities of the remainder elsewhere because they can't use them all. Then they buy "hothouse" tomatoes the rest of the year. Yes, some canning or other preservation may go on, but that, like brewing beer, is very much like work.

Something like basil is more useful as a comparison. I can grow two or three basil plants in front of my apartment porch (along with a couple of tomatoes, maybe a pepper or a cuke), plants started in April around here. I can pick leaves off them for the course of the seven month growing season, a process which both supplies fresh basil for cooking and encourages the plant to grow fuller and more robustly, and then as fall sets in I can harvest the entire plant, dry the leaves simply by hanging them in the kitchen, and stay well supplied until the next spring.

This is not particularly labor intensive. Marijuana plants are no more difficult to cultivate. Even ones of respectable potency. I have heard this from someone with experience in the subject whom I am very close to.

In the absence of legal impediments making a little extra room in my apartment garden would be fairly simple.

As far as potency is concerned, I have to agree that there is a continuum available, and I can say (again from the experience of someone I am very close to) that homegrown, outdoor herb can easily reach high enough on that continuum for the results to be quite satisfactory.

If there are new, 'sooper-seekrit', 'sooper potent' strains out there, then seeds from those will not take long to become relatively easy to obtain when legal barriers to cultivation are removed. Seeds, much like secrets, never seem to stay contained for very long.

I have to concur with WildCat that the advantages of indoor growing are being somewhat over-hyped. There may be some incremental superiority, but overall the difference will be hard to justify except in a limited market.
 
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I have to concur with WildCat that the advantages of indoor growing are being somewhat over-hyped. There may be some incremental superiority, but overall the difference will be hard to justify except in a limited market.

The biggest advantage being that indoors you can control when the plant flowers. If you do it outdoors, it's whenever Mother Nature triggers it. Indoors you can have as many crops as you have the space and organizational skills to produce. Outdoors you get one a year, but you can make it a really big one if you want.
 
The biggest advantage being that indoors you can control when the plant flowers. If you do it outdoors, it's whenever Mother Nature triggers it. Indoors you can have as many crops as you have the space and organizational skills to produce. Outdoors you get one a year, but you can make it a really big one if you want.
While growing year-round could be an advantage, there's really no need to do so in a legalized environment. Marijuana stores very well for long periods (quite unlike tomatoes) and the quantities needed to satisfy demand can easily be met with just one crop per year on a few thousand acres of land. I don't see the need to grow year-round assuming it were made legal.

There's no point, after all, in growing a crop year-round in a glutted market.
 

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