TSR
Illuminator
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No one really cares what you think should have been done. NIST did the job they were tasked with, full stop.
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Ed All 43 videos "Second Hit"" [Explosion]at WTC 2: Plane or No Plane?
- Thread starter jammonius
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No one really cares what you think should have been done. NIST did the job they were tasked with, full stop.
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Tinfoil Hater
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I have noticed Truthers like to derail threads with outlandish theories, but never have proof to back their claims- and they spend page after page dancing the Toofer Two Step (such as when Jammy refused to answer what he thought happened to the people on the planes)
Tinfoil Hater
Graduate Poster
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Perhaps Jammy went to get some proof to back his claims....
I'm still unclear on what a 'shadowy thing' is- is this a holographic shadowy thing?
Greetings Titanic,
Your expression of respect and remembrance for 9/11 victims is touching. It is also a fitting and proper thing to do, especially if coupled with right action in furtherance of that expressed sympathy.
Unfortunately, that is not what appears to motivate Compus. Instead, Compus is using victims to support the claim a jetliner crashed on 9/11 and not support for victims.
It has been two full days now since the US House of Representatives failed to pass the 9/11 health bill and there has been no post expressing outrage about that here on this thread.
Quick, posters, lurkers and victims family members, who is John Zadroga?
What action did the House of Representatives engage in on Thursday relevant to John Zadroga and to a large class of persons who he represents?
Compus didn't tell you about John Zadroga.
Side Note:
The fuming that lasted not for days, weeks, months, but years at GZ was never officially explained for what it really was: The aftermath of the use of directed energy weaponry (DEW) and a toxic brew that is responsible for the death of John Zadroga and the death and illness of many others. Unfortunately, sympathy for victims does not appear to extend to providing them with necessary health care.
Equally unfortunate, the so-called official investigation of what caused the destruction of the WTC complex (NIST investigation) was truncated so as to end just as the event was starting, with so-called "collapse initiation." That is as far as NIST went. Thus, the actual destructive phase, let alone the deadly, toxic aftermath was not investigated by NIST.
And yet, we have posters like Djlunacee (falsely) claiming 9/11 was "one of the most investigated events in history."
That claim is an illusion.
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This is a reply to Titanic's post 2793:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6171717&postcount=2793
There is not one single source, link or even the slightest hint of proof of any assertion contained in that post.
As such, that post does not refute anything at all.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6171717&postcount=2793
There is not one single source, link or even the slightest hint of proof of any assertion contained in that post.
As such, that post does not refute anything at all.
prove it.(bolding mine)
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Calling all Fallacy Vigilantes. Do your thing.
Understanding 9/11 requires a capacity or willingness to distinguish between that which is real and that which is illusion. Compus' exercise, for instance, is one based on illusion. Compus is posting up claims about victims that are intended to serve as a substitute or as a veil hiding the fact there was no investigatory finding concerning any of the victims Compus is posting up.
Your posting claiming "...one of the most investigated events in history..." makes no mention of any example of an investigation. You do not even comment on the salient point of the post you claim to be commenting upon; namely, that the 9/11 Commission did not even begin until 2004, after unrelenting pressure from the Victims Families; and, even then, the commission was politically hamstrung, hemmed in and prevented from "delving too deeply."
The above is cheap rhetoric, posed as a question, without having provided an answer.
I do wish some of you posters would begin to realize that your use of rhetoric has been exposed for what it is long ago.
That is not a rational response.
That is not only irrational, it is also lazy.
You are not engaging in dialogue.
Do you know what a posteriori proof is? Permit me to suggest you look it up and try posting on the basis of proof of claims in future.
Do you not understand the meaning of "hello..." in the context in which it was used?
The above is not refutation.
Your beliefs are not at issue. You can believe "19 hijackers" caused 9/11 for as long as you can.
Your misrepresentation of my post is blatant.
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
What are you talking about? Can you show us other examples of these effect from DEW?
I would like to know about why you think there was "fuming" for years
CompusMentus
Waiting for the Worms
The crew and passengers of United Airlines Flight 175
On the morning of September 11 2001, United Airlines Flight 175 was flying to Los Angeles from Boston, and was hijacked by Islamic terrorists. Shortly after taking off it was deliberately flown into the South Tower of the World Trade Centre, New York.
59 passengers and crew were on board (not counting the hijackers).
All were killed.
UNITED AIRLINES FLIGHT 175 PASSENGERS
Touri Bolourchi 69, was a passenger on Flight 175, She lived in Beverly Hills California. She left behind her husband Akbar Bolourchi, her daughters Neda Bolourchi and Roya Turan, and grandsons Bobby Turan, 15, and Kayvon Turan, 10, of Boston. Touri was born in Tehran, educated in England and moved to the United States with her daughters in 1979 following the Islamic revolution. Her husband followed two years later, moving his internal medicine practice to Beverly Hills.
Besides being an accomplished nurse (retired), she spoke six languages: Turkish, English, French, Italian, Arabic and Farsi.
An obsessive reader and adventurous cook, her daughter Roya said of her, "She would look through food and wine magazines, read through a recipe and just make it for guests. She was very courageous. And it always worked out".
Touri Bolourchi was visiting hear daughter and grandsons in Boston. She might have missed Flight 175 had she not decided to spend more time there with her loved ones. Her husband said she had not traveled to Boston for two years due to her fear of flying. He also said that two of her cousins died in airline crashes in Europe and Africa.
The people of Brentwood, California raised funds to place a memorial rock dedicated to Touri Bolourchi in their town.
Sources HERE HERE HERE
Immutable facts. Unassailable reason.
Compus
On the morning of September 11 2001, United Airlines Flight 175 was flying to Los Angeles from Boston, and was hijacked by Islamic terrorists. Shortly after taking off it was deliberately flown into the South Tower of the World Trade Centre, New York.
59 passengers and crew were on board (not counting the hijackers).
All were killed.
UNITED AIRLINES FLIGHT 175 PASSENGERS
Touri Bolourchi 69, was a passenger on Flight 175, She lived in Beverly Hills California. She left behind her husband Akbar Bolourchi, her daughters Neda Bolourchi and Roya Turan, and grandsons Bobby Turan, 15, and Kayvon Turan, 10, of Boston. Touri was born in Tehran, educated in England and moved to the United States with her daughters in 1979 following the Islamic revolution. Her husband followed two years later, moving his internal medicine practice to Beverly Hills.
Besides being an accomplished nurse (retired), she spoke six languages: Turkish, English, French, Italian, Arabic and Farsi.
An obsessive reader and adventurous cook, her daughter Roya said of her, "She would look through food and wine magazines, read through a recipe and just make it for guests. She was very courageous. And it always worked out".
Touri Bolourchi was visiting hear daughter and grandsons in Boston. She might have missed Flight 175 had she not decided to spend more time there with her loved ones. Her husband said she had not traveled to Boston for two years due to her fear of flying. He also said that two of her cousins died in airline crashes in Europe and Africa.
The people of Brentwood, California raised funds to place a memorial rock dedicated to Touri Bolourchi in their town.
Sources HERE HERE HERE
Immutable facts. Unassailable reason.
Compus
332nd
Penultimate Amazing
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Can you name the fallacy?
Eta: About that "fuming" comment, you think the TV show Eureka is a documentary don't you?
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Greetings Oystein and Bardamu,
Pardon the delay in joining in on the discussion had on the hull insurance payout aspect of the above post.
Bardamu has already called attention to the lack of detail concerning any actual insurance payouts to airlines for losses of aircraft.
See: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6159588&postcount=2564
Bardamu points out that the article linked by Oystein does not refer to any actual payout. Rather, the article speculates on what might be paid out.
The direct quote is:
"One year after the terrorist attacks in New York, Virginia and Pennsylvania, the Insurance Information Institute estimates that the total insurance loss from September 11 will ultimately be about $40.2 billion dollars.
...
* $11 billion (27 percent) in claims for business interruption; * $10 billion (25 percent) in liability claims; * $6 billion (15 percent) in property claims for damage to property, including vehicles, other than World Trade Center buildings One and Two; * $3.5 billion (9 percent) in property claims for WTC buildings One and Two; * $3.5 billion (9 percent) for aviation liability; * $2.7 billion (7 percent) in life insurance claims; * $2 billion (5 percent) for workers compensation claims; * $1 billion (2 percent) in claims for event cancellation and * $500 million (1 percent) in hull claims for the loss of the four commercial aircraft."
http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=90342 **
OK, so far; but, what was actually paid out; to whom, in what amount, from what source?
Oystein doesn't say. And, the information about payouts does not seem to have been of much interest to mainstream media.
In fact, we can find sources claiming that insurance rates went up after 9/11 and that "terrorism" was excluded from coverage, of course, but that doesn't tell us anything about 9/11 payouts:
"A final insurance product a shop manager may want to consider is insurance for acts of terrorism. Since 9/11 and the Patriot Act, the definition of terrorism has changed. If you read most policies, they will have an exclusion clause for terrorism. Terrorism, today, includes things as simple as acts of sabotage from disgruntled employees. If a loss occurs as the result of something like this, and you are not covered for acts of terrorism, your other policies will leave you without coverage."
See: http://www.aviationtoday.com/am/cat...nfused-About-Aviation-MX-Insurance_21554.html
Victims Family member Ellen Mariani was one of the few who called attention to the passage of the $10billion airline slush fund right after 9/11, an amount that far exceeded the amount set aside for victims. And, as we know, just this week victims were again shafted by Congress, but not the airlines:
"On September 22, 2001, President Bush signed into law the Air Transportation Safety and System Stabilization Act ("Act") (Public Law 107-42). The Act establishes the Air Transportation Stabilization Board ("Board"). The Board may issue up to $10 billion in Federal credit instruments, e.g. (loan guarantees)."
See: http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/domestic-finance/atsb/
What was that $10billion really for? Was it hush money?
There is a lot more than meets the eye in the discussion of insurance payouts, posters, lurkers and victims family members.
Many thanks to Bardamu for bringing this up and running with it.
** Note: For as important a topic as 9/11 insurance payouts might seem to be, it is noteworthy that Oystein links us to a prnews source. Wasn't that topic of interest to wide-distribution mainstream media, one wonders?
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Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
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Let me double check for accuracy: Do you agree that the people that Compus portraits, are victims of 9/11?
I'd be surprised if you do, as these people were passengers of the 4 planes that crashed. Plane crashes that you by way of your OP and following xx pages deny. If you deny plane crashes, but consider the alleged victims of these alleged plane crashes "victims", then surely you have a theory of what happened to them that made them victims? Unfortunately you have dodged all inquiries into what your theory is...
...about Ed Felt
...about Betty Ong
...about Christine Hanson
...about the other human beings that Compus portrayed
Quite easy, jammomius. Responders to the collapses are not within the scope of this thread. Compus would have been off-topic on the question of planes or no-planes, if he had talked about the aftermath of the collapses.
We notice you dodge by moving the goal posts way off-topic.
You must still answer the logical questions that arise from the claims you made in the OP:
What about Ed Felt, if no planes crashed?
What about Betty Ong, if no planes crashed?
What about Christine Hanson, if no planes crashed?
What about all the other passengers who you seem to call "victims", if no planes crashed?
What about the planes, if no planes crashed?
Each question can be answered with 9 words or less. Please do answer the questions with no more than 9 words each. No dodging will be accepted.
EventHorizon
Atheist Tergiversator
More lies from jammy. Yay.
And I'm sure I speak for everyone else when they say we wish you would look up the word rhetoric in a dictionary and try to understand its meaning.
It's not a belief. That's what the evidence (that you continually hand wave away) shows.
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
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Pardon not granted.
I will not discuss the issue of insurances with you. Let's not get into too many open topics at once, ok? You have not yet said a word about your theory with regard to the whereabouts of Ed, Betty and Christine. Once you have given answers to that, I might consider your pardon and move to the insurance issue.
For now, I await your apologies for your failure to properly, honestly and respectfully address Ed Felt, Betty Ong and Christine Hanson.
I am waiting.
Cut the crap. If you want to know about fuming at GZl; or, better still, if you dispute the claim of "fuming" as a way of explaining why it took until February 2002 before the "fire" was officially declared to be out at GZ, then do so.
You should know full well by now that I am not going to go off on some sort of "20 questions" quest for you under any circumstance or pretense. If you want to know something about the subject, look it up. You are not helpless I don't think.
Here's what I'll do for you: If you are curious about fuming in connection with GZ, simply google "fuming gz" or "fuming ground zero" or "fuming wtc" and report your results. If you disagree with the claim, then post up your disagreement.
After that, you can also google "wheel, invention of"...
Get it?
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
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Probably the "wise-man fallacy" again, or the "science-needs-evidence fallacy".
Maybe jammonius will invent yet another fallacy? Can we share credits at the Stundies then?
EventHorizon
Atheist Tergiversator
If you're not interested in a discussion why bother posting? You understand that not answering these questions is complete dishonesty on your part and nobody will take you seriously unless you stop being dishonest.
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
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It is "crap" when someone points out that september 2001 to february 2002 is not "years"? Maybe you should look up the meaning of some words...
hahaha DGW, you cornered him!!
No. Your claims. You bring the evidence to the table.
Yes, we all got it a long time ago: You make unsupported claims, and dodge aggreessively if cornered.
Funny:
http://www.google.de/#hl=de&source=hp&q="fuming+gz"&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=bdefb02920794569
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