Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Yes,
I am still convinced that there should have been glass on the ground beneath the window if it was broken from a rock thrown from outside. Some of the broken glass will travel in the opposite direction from the impact and this appears to me to be a scientific fact. If there was glass on the ground then the investigators missed this fact. If there was not glass there then the window was broken from the inside. If it was broken from the inside the question becomes who did it and why they did it. This is still the number one thing that those of us on the innocent side have not satisfactorily addressed, in my opinion. Looking at the glass on the window sill with several large pieces laying on the sill, my opinion now is that some smaller pieces would have had to have gone forward enough to fall on the ground.

I believe the "ballistics" expert hired by the defense team was not the right sort of expert to address this and was concerned with answering questions that were not as important as this one. I would have sent someone back to the scene to look for glass fragments the police may have missed. Tiny shards of glass in the grass are difficult to see and find and I don't know to what extent the police effort went to find glass fragments.

This is one of those points on which one must either believe or disbelieve police testimony. We don't have photos of the ground outside the window, just as we don't have photos of the glass supposedly on top of Filomena's clothing, or a recording of Amanda's interrogation.
 
<snip>

One argument which was disproven was that throwing a rock through a window wouldn't leave glass fragments outside the structure.

A rock is thrown into a window from the outside. What is the source of the energy that propels glass fragments in the direction from where the rock was thrown?

Anyone who took a high school physics course should understand why I asked the question.

Whether or not this is true, this misses a more important point:

If it's true that there were no glass fragments on the ground outside the building, does it suggest that the break-in was genuine or staged? Neither really - but it is strong evidence that the window was not broken from the inside, because if it had been there would certainly be glass on the ground. The window being broken from the outside might or might not result in fragments falling outside the window - in the event it didn't.

Quadraginta's posting seems to be a case of confirmation bias - if he is trying to suggest there is something odd about the glass-free ground outside the window. It may be slightly odd if the break-in was genuine, but it's decidedly odd if was staged.
 
The Machine's list of questions is poorly organised and repetitive, so I have reorganised it in places to put substantially similar questions next to each other.

Quote:
Why did Amanda Knox repeatedly lie to the police in the days following Meredith's murder?

Why did Raffaele Sollecito repeatedly lie to the police in the days following Meredith's murder?

Why did Amanda Knox lie to Filomena on 2 November 2007?

Why did Amanda Knox lie to friends in her e-mail on 4 November 2007?

After Amanda Knox had been confronted with proof that she had lied to the police on 5 November 2007, why did she choose to tell the police even more lies?

After Raffaele Sollecito had been confronted with proof that he had lied to the police on 5 November 2007, why did he choose to tell the police even more lies?

Why didn't Amanda Knox tell Filomena that she had already called Meredith's mobile phone when she spoke to her at 12.08pm on 2 November 2007?


As we have already demonstrated, as well as Amanda and Raffaele getting things wrong in their descriptions of events on the day the victim was found, Filomena and the police got things wrong too. Saying that any of them lied as opposed to just getting things wrong assumes facts not in evidence, specifically that any of these people knew their statements were incorrect at the time they made them.


I agree with your answer, Kevin, but I want to take it a bit further. I continue to be puzzled by how The Machine and many others seem to feel it is simply enough to say Amanda and Raffaele lied, without bothering to identify the "lies." The claim that, "well, they lied repeatedly" ends up being the bottom line for so many people's arguments, the last-ditch effort after each piece of proposed "evidence" has been demolished.

I haven't recently explored the site where you (presumably) found these questions, so I will have to ask -- did anyone there ask The Machine to specify or describe the lies he claims occurred? I don't see one claim that can be documented, or if it can, which actually constitutes an intention to deceive, as you pointed out.

The Machine also asked: "Do you believe that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollectio couldn't remember very much about the evening Meredith was murdered because they were suffering from cannabis-induced amnesia?"

This is one of those when-did-you-stop-beating-your-wife questions, in that it assumes something is true when that actuality hasn't been established. Amanda and Raffaele's attorneys may have taken advantage of the marijuana defense, but the fact is, Amanda and Raffaele's memories of what happened the night of the murder were just fine. They both remembered spending the night at Raffaele's, and questioned those memories only during the interrogations and for a short period thereafter.
 
Where is this "elsewhere" of which you speak? Sometimes I get the oddest impression that you're engaged in a conversation that we only see your half of, like listening to one side of a phone call.

We have had our own discussion of multi-point locksets right here in this very thread. Thanks to katy_did's curiosity as well as her patient persistence, and your timely link to a portion of the Corbin catalog both Dan O. and I realized that the three deadbolt multi-point lockset depicted there was a remarkably close match for the lockset in the Knox apartment door. The upper and lower strike plates in the doorjamb which had initially attracted katy_did's attention are nearly perfect matches for the ones in that catalog page. The feature that had puzzled me a bit when I first saw the door lock photos Charlie shared was the metal strip mortised into the full length of the edge of the door leaf, instead of the edge of a typical mortise lock (usually only six or eight inches long). I didn't recognize it for what it was at the time, because residential multi-point locksets are only now starting to see much use in the U.S. and I have never had an opportunity to become familiar with them, but as soon as I saw that lockset in the Corbin catalog it was clear that this was what we were seeing in the Knox door.

Sadly, nothing has changed in spite of this. As Dan O. and I have both pointed out before, without the specific model number of the specific lockset in that particular door there is no way for us to know for certain even which of many possibly available features apply to that lockset, much less which ones were actually implemented on the door itself. From what I have read since finding out about this multi-point application there are many variants, even more as their popularity in the U.S. has begun to grow. It is quite possible, maybe even likely that the center portion of the lockset, both deadbolt and latch, can function alone, and engaging the upper and lower deadbolts is not required. In that case my earlier conjecture about operation remains quite valid. If all three deadbolts are key operable from the exterior it also remains the same.

But the spring latch was still intentionally disabled, not broken. None of the above changes that one simple fact.

I absolutely 100% concur that the spring latch was intentionally disabled, not accidentally broken. And I'd be interested to hear your views on whether (in your experience) the supplementary upper and lower deadbolts can usually be engaged in locksets such as these by two different methods:

1) Pulling the lever handle up by approx 45 degrees
2) Turning the key

My problem with the two options co-existing is this: supposing I leave the house (taking my keys with me) and just pull the door shut behind me without locking it in any way. Suppose that someone else inside the house then engages the upper and lower deadbolts by pulling up the lever handle. So, the cylinder lock has not yet been turned at all. Suppose I now return and find the door locked. What action would I now have to perform using my key in order to disengage the upper and lower deadbolts? The cylinder would be in the "unlocked" position, after all. And if the contention is also that a reverse operation of the cylinder lock would operate the spring latch, then that makes things even harder.

Oh, and in answer to your opening gambit about my "one-sided conversation", I'm responding to ideas suggested on PMF. Unfortunately I don't have the opportunity to debate directly on that site, since I was banned some time ago for reasons that seem totally at odds with that forum's own rules. Still, it's "their" forum, and they can do whatever they like with it. I just thought that some of the issues being raised on there warranted discussion, and here is the best place (possibly the only place) where I can do that.
 
yes, I agree to most of that, but the other theory, Judge Massei's interpretation is the window/glass+white shutter was opened inward and then broken with a rock, by someone standing inside the room. This doesn't answer how glass could "jump" to the window sill. This is a grossly weak theory, unless I'm totally misinterpreting something.

Bruce posted a new clue with the close-up picture of the window sill.
Each layer of glass logically laying on the window sill. So however way the window was broken, the window was most likely not opened inward to the room. It's the only new and very logical piece of the puzzle, thats been presented in a long time.

I agree. I think the prosecution's suggestion is that the "stager" picked up some large pieces of glass and placed them on the sill, in order to add authenticity to the staging. But this seems like too much attention to detail to me, especially from people who were supposed to have also left plenty of incriminating blood evidence inside the house. And the unusual position of the rock as found by the police (half inside a bag) is also, to me, further indication that the scene wasn't choreographed. After all, it would be a strange position to deliberately place the rock - most "stagers" would have placed or kicked it out into plain view directly under the window, I suspect.

As I said in an earlier post, I simply don't believe that it's established scientific fact that significant-sized pieces of glass are "bound" to fly backwards when a pane of glass is broken by a blunt object. I would totally agree that some small shards of glass will eject backwards, but I think that all sizeable pieces will either fall in the direction of impact, or else vertically downwards (hence the glass on the window sill). So I'm wondering if the police ever conducted a thorough search for sub-millimetre-sized particles of glass on the ground below Filomena's window? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?
 
With all credit due to RoseMontague, I think I'd like to add to LondonJohn's excellent list of the points we've mostly now settled, with a quick list of the pro-guilt points we've mostly now demolished.


Quote:
Why do you think Sollecito lied on two separate occasions about accidentally pricking Meredith's hand whilst cooking?


Perpetuating the claim that he did so is indicative of dishonesty or excessive partisanship, because his statement was ambiguous but taken in the context of everything everyone else has ever said the only logical interpretation was that he talked about accidentally touching Amanda's hand, not Meredith's.



Quote:
Why did Amanda Knox tell the postal police that Meredith always locked her door?


The only evidence we have that she ever did so is one officer's uncorroborated memory.


What major talking points or "evidence" has been missed by this list? Going over it I was frankly surprised by how weak the list was. If those are the big guns of the guilt case they have serious problems, but I suspect that The Machine simply forgot to include some important points.

Just to pick up on a couple of your responses:

With regard to Sollecito's now-infamous "knife-prick" explanation, I personally think that he may have been referring to Meredith rather than Amanda. But, either way, I think that's moot, because what he was clearly doing here (in my view) was grasping for any possible way to reconcile what he thought the police knew with certainty about the knife having drawn blood (or at the very least skin cells) from Meredith. He should never have been speculating on paper in this wild sort of way in the first place, of course. But, to me, the fact that he did so, when placed in the correct context, is in no way indicative of his culpability. Rather, to me, it's indicative of his general naivety, his unquestioning attitude to authority, and a possible failure in control by his legal team.

And I think your response to the "Meredith always locked her door" issue might be over-generous to the postal police. If I recall correctly, the only person who reported overhearing Knox allegedly saying this was Luca (the friend of Filomena's boyfriend). By my recollection, neither of the postal police officers say that they heard Knox say anything of the sort. Which is strange, because I believe that inquiries about the locked status of the door were instigated by the police, so one would imagine that any replies to such an inquiry would be primarily directed towards the police officers.

In general, though, I think it's a very well thought-out and well-reasoned set of responses. I wonder when the Massei Report translation will be released, by the way....
 
yes, I agree to most of that, but the other theory, Judge Massei's interpretation is the window/glass+white shutter was opened inward and then broken with a rock, by someone standing inside the room. This doesn't answer how glass could "jump" to the window sill. This is a grossly weak theory, unless I'm totally misinterpreting something.

Bruce posted a new clue with the close-up picture of the window sill.
Each layer of glass logically laying on the window sill. So however way the window was broken, the window was most likely not opened inward to the room. It's the only new and very logical piece of the puzzle, thats been presented in a long time.

I wish LJ's video had been taken from the side view rather than behind the impact point, I tried to find one and gave up after a few. But I think it does give us some clues on exactly what you are talking about. Add to that if another barrier is just a couple of inches behind the glass and we have even more confusion. Your point about the large pieces jumping to the sill being a big stretch if broken from the inside with shutters open is a good one. They could have been placed there but that is not at all likely in my opinion.
 
This blog post from Science Spheres is strictly speculation, and it relies upon taking the claims that Rudy Guede was a protected police informant as fact, so it should obviously be taken with a grain of salt.

It's central thesis is that it's plausible that one or more members of the investigative team recognised the M.O. of the break-in as Rudy's in the first few days of the investigation, and out of fear that they would be blamed for letting Rudy back out on the streets to kill someone they made a deliberate effort to frame someone else for Rudy's crime.

That's a pretty serious accusation, and normally I'd want pretty serious evidence for an accusation like that, and there is no such evidence.

However there is for me a definite "click" moment in this piece, where the hypothesis suddenly rearranges some things that didn't make sense into a shape that does make sense. One thing that has been troubling about the larger story is that Rudy was caught breaking and entering while carrying a large kitchen knife three or four days before Meredith was murdered but, as the PMF crew delight in pointing out, he was never charged or convicted. They interpret this to mean that he was innocent, or something, but to me it was just odd

*

*

*

________________________

That "large kitchen knife" was not brought by Rudy. He found it on the premises. Where it was left.

///
 
Kestrel, you were one of the earliest posters to these threads. You have also been one of the more prolific, so I have to assume you have at least been exposed to the majority of the posts that other people have contributed.

Many moons ago the subject of glass flying outward from a rock thrown into a window was discussed here in some depth. I took the time to research and share links to studies and experiments by crime forensics experts which quite clearly demonstrated that not only was such a phenomenon possible, it was indeed actually expected. It turns out that faked break-ins are relatively common and that this phenomenon, sadly not a part of standard high school physics curricula I guess, is often one of the clues that exposes the deception.

Fiona (I believe) did the same, independent of my efforts.

High school physics courses can suffer many deficiencies, or perhaps it is the students. I have met many who have graduated such courses and left still under the impression that heat rises. This suggests that any number of fundamentals may not be properly assimilated.

In anticipation of your response to this post.

No, I am not going to go back through the old thread and find the relevant posts for you. Nor am I going to repeat my on-line research into the subject. The studies and monographs I found were not trivial to uncover, not being on a first page of a single Google search return, but neither were they particularly difficult. If your interest in the subject is sincere I encourage you to look on your own. This time.

A key concept of physics is that the exact nature of the objects doesn't matter. An apple falls because it has mass and it attracted by the mass of the Earth, not because of some special property unique to apples. It's really only the mass that is important.

A thrown object has kinetic energy from it's mass and it's velocity. It doesn't matter if it's a rock or a brick or a bullet or a baseball. The kinetic energy of the object has a vector in the direction the rock is moving. And just like the apple, it's affected by gravity. The ballistic trajectory of such an object can be calculated without knowing the exact nature of the object.

If you understand physics, you understand that the behavior of a flying rock and a flying bullet are basically the same. Judge Massie didn't understand this.

Physics tells us that the energy that makes chunks of broken glass move had to come from somewhere. The obvious sources, gravity and the kinetic energy from the rock both have a direction associated with them. Gravity will send the glass toward the earth, the kinetic energy from the rock will send the glass in the same general direction that the rock was moving. The predictable result of throwing a rock into a window from outside a room is glass scattered across the floor inside the room.

The interior shutter of the window in this case was damaged. Glass fibers imbedded in the damaged wood show us that the rock hit the window and then the interior shutter. The pattern of glass on the window sill shows us that the window itself was closed when it was broken. Combining these two facts, we know the window was broken by a rock thrown from outside the room.

To break the window from inside and simulate this result would require catching all the bits of glass when the window was broken and placing them by hand on the window sill and across the floor of the room.
 
Those on the pro-amanda side should be supporting the idea that glass should have come out of the window and landed in the grass below. Though it is far from certain that this is necessarily the case given the size of the rock in relation to the opening created, the looseness of the glass mounted in the window frame and the bellows effect of the shutter opening upon first contact. Given that so much care must have been used to place all the bits of glass throughout the room; especially on the inside and outside window sills, some surely would have been tossed outside for completeness.

That there is no evidence of glass in the grass outside is not surprising because there is no contemporary evidence that any investigation took place in this area. All we have is the statements made after the fact at the trial. Where are the photographs? Where are the field notes?

In fact, the evidence we have is that the investigators were treating this area as a break room and not part of the crime scene. They are tromping around in the grass, smoking cigarettes and yapping on a cell phone in this area, not recording and preserving evidence.
 
knife versus blood stain

Okay. Thank you for the clarification

It may lead to a more perplexing and even more ominous issue, though.

Your earlier contributions have already led us near to the conclusion that most if not all DNA evidence must be considered dangerously suspect. Now you seem to be suggesting that any forensic science at all which is not performed under double-blind conditions should be viewed with equal suspicion.

Quadraginta,

You have yet to address the specific issue that my first comment raised, that Stefanoni appears to have treated the blood stain differently from the knife. Can you provide a reason why one would not be suspicious of her choices? Thanks.
 
I wish LJ's video had been taken from the side view rather than behind the impact point, I tried to find one and gave up after a few. But I think it does give us some clues on exactly what you are talking about. Add to that if another barrier is just a couple of inches behind the glass and we have even more confusion. Your point about the large pieces jumping to the sill being a big stretch if broken from the inside with shutters open is a good one. They could have been placed there but that is not at all likely in my opinion.

The barrier that was would have been behind the glass if it was broken by a rock thrown from the outside (i.e. the interior shutter) would have been forced open by the impact of the rock. The rock would have been the first object to strike the interior shutter (in advance of any glass particles or pieces), and would have made the shutter swing open on impact (the interior shutters were not latched). Therefore, the interior shutter would not have been an issue so far as potential glass ricochet is concerned, since it would have been swung out of the way by the rock before any glass would have the chance to bounce off it.

Additionally, I personally don't think it's a big stretch to suggest that if the break-in were staged, the "stagers" might have swung the window open, thrown the rock from very close-up against the outer face of the window pane (which would now be swung inside the room), then manually transferred a few larger pieces of glass from the floor to the exterior window sill to add "authenticity". In other words, I don't think that the presence of glass on the outer sill is any kind of evidence against a staging.

However, I do think that a "stager" taking the trouble to re-position broken glass on the outer sill would also have taken the trouble to alter the position of the rock to a more obvious "rock-thrown-through-window-from-outside-landing-on-bedroom-floor" position. In other words, I think that any "stager" would have placed the rock in a very obvious and open position in the middle of the floor, free from any other items. Instead, of course, the rock was discovered half-in and half-out of a paper shopping bag - consistent with it having come through the window, but hardly where a careful "stager" might have chosen to place it.

And it's this, coupled with my belief that the evidence found at the scene is indeed consistent with a rock thrown from the outside, that leads me to believe that there's a good probability that the break-in was real, and not staged.
 
...

They instead hare off on an investigation of the housemates, try to fit up Lumumba whose hair matches but who had no motive and no form, fixate on a kitchen knife which coincidentally matches the weapon Rudy was last arrested with, and apparently give no thought at all to Rudy until the German police bag him.

...

For me, this was the first of the flashing red lights to be seen all over this case. When police are called to a crime and start investigating the first people they see to the exclusion of any alternative leads, we can be almost certain that they're not interested in the truth, but only in "solving" the crime with the minimum of effort and risk on their own part.

This is a theme repeated over and over again in miscarriages of justice: the wrongly accused are the people closest to hand at the time (like Amanda and Raffaele), or those with another arbitary connection to the circumstances of the crime (like Patrick Lumumba). In real life, perpetrators of crimes do not hand themselves on a plate to police by phoning them up from the crime scene. Police who act on this basis are either out of their depth in responding to a murder, or have an agenda that puts verdict before evidence.

I called this "the first flashing red light" that told me that this was a wrongful conviction - everything I have read since confirms my initial judgement.
 
Whether or not this is true, this misses a more important point:

...

Sorry, I missed the fact that the window swings open into the room, and that the hypothesis of a staged break-in assumes that it was broken in that position by someone standing in the room. (Of course, that doesn't

This is when you wish there was an option to withdraw or edit postings.
 
I absolutely 100% concur that the spring latch was intentionally disabled, not accidentally broken. And I'd be interested to hear your views on whether (in your experience) the supplementary upper and lower deadbolts can usually be engaged in locksets such as these by two different methods:

1) Pulling the lever handle up by approx 45 degrees
2) Turning the key

My problem with the two options co-existing is this: supposing I leave the house (taking my keys with me) and just pull the door shut behind me without locking it in any way. Suppose that someone else inside the house then engages the upper and lower deadbolts by pulling up the lever handle. So, the cylinder lock has not yet been turned at all. Suppose I now return and find the door locked. What action would I now have to perform using my key in order to disengage the upper and lower deadbolts? The cylinder would be in the "unlocked" position, after all. And if the contention is also that a reverse operation of the cylinder lock would operate the spring latch, then that makes things even harder.

<snip>


As I've mentioned earlier, my experience isn't very helpful on the subject of multi-point residential locks, since they have only recently begun see much exposure in the U.S. Even that is diminished by the fact that the U.S. implementations have developed new features and design considerations to cater to the U.S. market which are only now starting to find their way back to Europe.

Notable among these differences are changes to the lever operation of the outer bolt points, and the behavior of the interior thumbturn/key cylinder. (I should perhaps point out, again, that the popularity and use of interior keyed deadbolts has fallen dramatically in the U.S. in past decades, largely because of quite legitimate and serious safety concerns for the occupants of a home with such a lock design.)

The general knowledge of the field that my experience has supplied suggests to me that any of these options are possible, and many are quite likely. There is nothing unusual about a lock with a key mechanism which operates both spring latch and deadbolt. There is also nothing unusual about a door equipped with a deadbolt which only operates from the inside. When put into use it requires anyone who desires entry to knock on the door and ask to be let in. Whether they live there or not. This is hardly uncommon.

Often this feature is known as a "night latch". Sometimes it is the result of multiple separate locksets having been installed (often implemented with the addition of a "rimbolt" or surface mounted deadbolt). Sometimes it can be part of a single implementation. In the case of multi-point locksets this would seem to be a quite logical feature to make available.

What I have read since this topic came up has led me to understand that the full gamut of application variants are generally available for multi-point locks (even more, at least now, in the U.S. than in Europe), just as they are for older style locksets.

One rather basic alternative of design options, available on both continents, is either "automatic" or semi-automatic". The latter requires a conscious action by the user to engage the outer bolt points. This is probably the lever action we have been discussing. The former automatically engages all three deadbolt points when the door is closed. Both can be implemented with a function which disengages both the deadbolts and spring latch using a key. So far I have been unable to uncover enough technical detail to determine how controllable the automatic function is by the user, or how it may be actuated.

I don't know if it is helpful to point this out or not, but the Corbin lockset which Dan O. and I both noticed as a remarkably likely candidate is in a price range which suggests that there would be very few standard features which were not available for it. The interchangeability of hardware elements within any given manufacturer's product line also means that a competent locksmith can often quite easily implement features which are not indicated in the standard catalog descriptions. The likelihood of this increases with the complexity of the lockset.

This gets us right back to the quandary of determining what features were available for that particular lock, and which of those available features were chosen to be implemented.
 
I don't think it's been mentioned for a while, but it bears repeating nonetheless: Mignini currently stands convicted of a serious criminal offence of Abuse of Office. If the conviction is upheld, he faces around 10 months in prison (out of a 16-month sentence), and a permanent disbarment from public office.

Now, Mignini is perfectly entitled to go through all the appeals open to him, and - who knows - his verdict might get overturned on appeal. But his conviction currently carries the very same status as that of Knox and Sollecito. So all those who brand Knox and Sollecito as murderers should also be branding the man who prosecuted them as criminally corrupt, no?

Does anyone know when Mignini's appeal(s) is/are likely to be held? I'm assuming that he's fighting tooth and nail to delay his appeal to a date beyond that of Knox/Sollecito's first appeal. I say this because I would have thought it would be legally difficult for Knox/Sollecito's lawyers to use his (Mignini's) conviction as part of the appeal case, when Mignini's appeal itself is still pending. Whereas if he gambles on going to appeal early and the verdict is confirmed, then this clearly would raise serious problems over his conduct on all cases that he's prosecuted during and since the 1985-onwards "Monster of Florence" case (from where the criminal charges arose). Could be interesting. Very interesting.
 
A key concept of physics is that the exact nature of the objects doesn't matter. An apple falls because it has mass and it attracted by the mass of the Earth, not because of some special property unique to apples. It's really only the mass that is important.

A thrown object has kinetic energy from it's mass and it's velocity. It doesn't matter if it's a rock or a brick or a bullet or a baseball. The kinetic energy of the object has a vector in the direction the rock is moving. And just like the apple, it's affected by gravity. The ballistic trajectory of such an object can be calculated without knowing the exact nature of the object.

If you understand physics, you understand that the behavior of a flying rock and a flying bullet are basically the same. Judge Massie didn't understand this.


If you understand physics beyond the basics, then you understand that the behavior of a flying rock and a flying bullet share certain fundamental elements, but that does not mean that they are basically the same except in the most simplistic sense. If you think they are basically the same then you shouldn't care which one you might find yourself standing in front of.

Heck, a flying bullet and another flying bullet aren't even always "basically the same". I can choose one and fire it at a pumpkin with results which would leave nothing but pie ingredients. Another might leave only a hole suitable for threading a drinking straw through.

Your generalizations of key concepts only work in general. Physics, once applied beyond the basics, must also consider factors pertinent to each event in particular.

Physics tells us that the energy that makes chunks of broken glass move had to come from somewhere. The obvious sources, gravity and the kinetic energy from the rock both have a direction associated with them. Gravity will send the glass toward the earth, the kinetic energy from the rock will send the glass in the same general direction that the rock was moving. The predictable result of throwing a rock into a window from outside a room is glass scattered across the floor inside the room.


Note your key words. "The obvious sources". Emphasis on "obvious". What physics really tells us is that the "obvious" isn't always the right conclusion to draw. After all, it's quite obvious that the sun revolves around the Earth. (Or is it?)

RoseMontague has taken the time to share in some detail the things she has learned about the behavior of glass when it is impacted by an object in motion. It seems to be less than "obvious". My own research has uncovered that this behavior has proven to be useful in the past specifically to expose false break-ins. It has been studied in detail and under laboratory conditions for exactly that reason.

To help you with your description, consider this minor edit.
The predictable result of throwing a rock into a window from outside a room is much of the glass scattered across the floor inside the room.
The interior shutter of the window in this case was damaged. Glass fibers imbedded in the damaged wood show us that the rock hit the window and then the interior shutter. The pattern of glass on the window sill shows us that the window itself was closed when it was broken. Combining these two facts, we know the window was broken by a rock thrown from outside the room.

To break the window from inside and simulate this result would require catching all the bits of glass when the window was broken and placing them by hand on the window sill and across the floor of the room.


Or it could require reaching around the closed half of the window from the open side and smashing it with a rock in your hand. I haven't seen anything in any of the photos shared here which rules out that possibility. Note that the rock in this scenario is still ("basically", if you will :p) technically outside the room.

One basic difference between that scenario and one in which the rock is thrown from below involves the available kinetic energy of the rock at its point of impact. Given an identical rock this will be a function of its velocity.

It is not too much of a stretch to surmise that the velocity of a thrown rock could be different than that of one which is held in a hand. Nor is it much of a shock to discover that the behavior of the glass under these different conditions is also different. (Recall the pumpkin.)

Oddly enough, this is exactly what people who have studied the subject in detail beyond the obvious have discovered.
 
As I've mentioned earlier, my experience isn't very helpful on the subject of multi-point residential locks, since they have only recently begun see much exposure in the U.S. Even that is diminished by the fact that the U.S. implementations have developed new features and design considerations to cater to the U.S. market which are only now starting to find their way back to Europe.

Notable among these differences are changes to the lever operation of the outer bolt points, and the behavior of the interior thumbturn/key cylinder. (I should perhaps point out, again, that the popularity and use of interior keyed deadbolts has fallen dramatically in the U.S. in past decades, largely because of quite legitimate and serious safety concerns for the occupants of a home with such a lock design.)

The general knowledge of the field that my experience has supplied suggests to me that any of these options are possible, and many are quite likely. There is nothing unusual about a lock with a key mechanism which operates both spring latch and deadbolt. There is also nothing unusual about a door equipped with a deadbolt which only operates from the inside. When put into use it requires anyone who desires entry to knock on the door and ask to be let in. Whether they live there or not. This is hardly uncommon.

Often this feature is known as a "night latch". Sometimes it is the result of multiple separate locksets having been installed (often implemented with the addition of a "rimbolt" or surface mounted deadbolt). Sometimes it can be part of a single implementation. In the case of multi-point locksets this would seem to be a quite logical feature to make available.

What I have read since this topic came up has led me to understand that the full gamut of application variants are generally available for multi-point locks (even more, at least now, in the U.S. than in Europe), just as they are for older style locksets.

One rather basic alternative of design options, available on both continents, is either "automatic" or semi-automatic". The latter requires a conscious action by the user to engage the outer bolt points. This is probably the lever action we have been discussing. The former automatically engages all three deadbolt points when the door is closed. Both can be implemented with a function which disengages both the deadbolts and spring latch using a key. So far I have been unable to uncover enough technical detail to determine how controllable the automatic function is by the user, or how it may be actuated.

I don't know if it is helpful to point this out or not, but the Corbin lockset which Dan O. and I both noticed as a remarkably likely candidate is in a price range which suggests that there would be very few standard features which were not available for it. The interchangeability of hardware elements within any given manufacturer's product line also means that a competent locksmith can often quite easily implement features which are not indicated in the standard catalog descriptions. The likelihood of this increases with the complexity of the lockset.

This gets us right back to the quandary of determining what features were available for that particular lock, and which of those available features were chosen to be implemented.

I do honestly recognise your expertise in this area, and the amount of research that both you and Dan_O have put in. Like you, I just think that there's incomplete information to make a definitive judgement here, however I still think that plenty of other things point towards the constant use of a key (and a key alone) to not only lock the door, but even to keep it firmly closed. Obviously the deliberately disabled latch is one of those factors, but, to me, the more important one is the testimony of all the girls in the house (excluding Meredith, unfortunately and unavoidably). There seems to be a singular agreement among them that keys were used to lock the door from both the inside and the outside, as a matter of course.

And this is why I think that whoever exited the door that night either found the door unlocked (either still shut, or blown/swung ajar), or needed a key to unlock it before leaving. Of these two options, I think that the latter is by some distance the most likely - regardless of which murder scenario one favours.

As I've said before, for what it's worth, I think that the following scenario is feasible and possible:

1) Guede broke-and-entered via Filomena's window at around 20.50, made a very cursory start on his search for money and small valuables (jewellery, small electronics items etc), then got a sudden urge to empty his bowels (driven in part by the well-documented link between heightened fear/adrenaline and bowel motion), and went to the large bathroom.

2) Meredith then arrived home at just before 21.00, locked the front door behind her using her key, perhaps went to the refrigerator and ate a piece of mushroom, then went to her room and started to call home to the UK.

3) As soon as Meredith went into her room, Guede seized his opportunity to emerge from the large bathroom - without flushing, so as not to alert Meredith to his presence. He went to exit from the front door, but found it locked and therefore a barrier to exit. He tried pulling on the door, and started hunting around the kitchen/lounge for keys.

4) Meredith heard a commotion, and terminated her call home before it was even answered, in order to investigate. She went to her bedroom door and looked out to the hallway, to be confronted by Guede. He then raised a knife and forced her back into her room.

5) The attack and murder, together with the sexual assault, then took place for reasons that are near impossible to correctly define. Perhaps Meredith refused to give Guede keys to the door. Perhaps she said that she was going to call the police, and made to use her phone. Perhaps Guede just snapped at this point. Maybe he penetrated her digitally while she was dying and he was in an adrenaline-fuelled sexual frenzy. Maybe he masturbated in front of her as she lay dying, depositing semen on the pillow. Either way, the upshot was that Meredith was dead or dying on her bedroom floor, and Guede was now a sexual murderer with blood on his hands and clothes.

6) Guede now realised that he had to leave the scene, and that he would have to clean himself off to a fair degree before leaving. He went to the small bathroom, and turned on the light, then removed one or both shoes in order to place his lower leg into the bidet or shower to remove blood from his trousers. At some point, he stood in a mixture of blood and water coming off from his bloody hands/clothing and pooling in the bottom of the bidet or shower, then stepped onto the bathmat - leaving a footprint in a blood/water mixture.

7) He returned to Meredith's bedroom (and maybe took one further trip to the small bathroom for the second towel), mopped up some of the blood, and moved her body fully onto the floor and on top of the pillow, stepping on the pillow various times in the process. He then went through Meredith's handbag to find her keys, and opportunistically took her rent money, credit cards and phones as well.

8) Guede got up from the bed (where he'd been going through the handbag), and stepped over Meredith's body in order to exit her room. As he did so, he stepped in some of her blood which was now pooling on the bedroom floor. He turned briefly on exiting to lock Meredith's bedroom door - to try to delay discovery by her housemates - and headed to the front door, leaving bloody footprints behind him.

9) Guede unlocked the front door and existed quickly when he saw that no cars or pedestrians were passing by. He didn't pause to lock the front door behind him - he merely pulled it shut, assuming perhaps that it would lock of its own accord.

Obviously, there are areas of this alternative narrative that are open to debate, and probably even open to attack. And I would welcome such debates or attacks - I'll either refine the narrative or abandon it if there are insurmountable problems with it. But bear in mind that if this narrative were put up to counter the prosecution's case, the defence wouldn't have to prove every element of it - they would merely have to show that each element was reasonable and possible. And that's all that I seek to achieve as well.
 
Quadraginta,

You have yet to address the specific issue that my first comment raised, that Stefanoni appears to have treated the blood stain differently from the knife. Can you provide a reason why one would not be suspicious of her choices? Thanks.


No.

I can't even provide a reason why I should be suspicious.

In the absence of more persuasive evidence (or any actual evidence at all) that she is duplicitous, or incompetent, or both, I am left with the presumption that she is a respected professional. Since I have no experience in the field of forensic DNA, I am also left with little alternative but to cede to her judgment in such particulars.

Innuendo and vague references to psychology studies are not sufficient cause to impugn her professionalism, unless that condemnation is taken as a given and one is only in search of some sort of nebulous support for it.
 
Kestrel said: "The interior shutter of the window in this case was damaged. Glass fibers imbedded in the damaged wood show us that the rock hit the window and then the interior shutter. The pattern of glass on the window sill shows us that the window itself was closed when it was broken. Combining these two facts, we know the window was broken by a rock thrown from outside the room."

This is exactly right. The evidence clearly shows that the rock was thrown form outside the room. This is not complicated. Any small pieces of glass that fell to the ground would have blended in with the yellow leaves that blanketed the ground. It would have been very small particles of glass. The investigators never photographed the ground. They have provided no proof showing that glass particles did not fall to the ground. A large majority of the glass including all of the larger pieces would have gone the direction of the rock, toward the room.

quadraginta suggested that someone could have broken the window by putting their arm outside the open side of the window and hitting the closed window with the rock. This is not a logical scenario because the glass is seen on the floor as far as Filomena's nightstand. If the glass was broken as suggested by quadraginta, no glass would have been scattered on the floor. It all would have remained on the ledge or have fallen to the ground.

The evidence clearly shows that the window was broken from outside the room.
 
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