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Congress Discovers Ethanol Economics Don't Work

Drysdale said:
So you bike or use mass transit everywhere?
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Ad hominem.

Do you disagree with the one observation I've made in this thread, that the oil industry has enjoyed huge tax breaks even while making massive profits?

Does the amount of biking I do change the answer to this question, somehow?

ETA: FWIW, I guarantee you my carbon footprint is well below the norm in the U.S. I guarantee you it's probably well above the norm in many other places in the world. And I do live in a relatively dense urban residential area to reduce my dependence on driving a car.
 
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WildCat said:
I just noticed this study the CBO published this month. We all know that ethanol production is subsidized, but this is the first time the CBO actually estimated what that subsidy is per gallon of ethanol. The result? Every gallon of ethanol receives $1.78 in government subsidies. Ethanol from cellulose is even worse, requiring $3 per gallon in subsidies. Biodiesel isn't much better, receiving $2.55 in subsidies per gallon. And it's also an extremely expensive way to reduce greenhouse gases, cost estimate is $754 per ton of reduced greenhouse gas emissions.

It's time to end this expensive charade. I'm not holding my breath though.
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If this isn't a good option, then what should we do, exactly? Since oil's not going to last forever, and cheap oil's not going to last long at all, what should we do?
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
While I'm not about to defend ethanol, I'd like to point out that the oil industry has enjoyed some pretty massive tax breaks over the years, even while posting record profits.

(Personally, I think any solution to our energy problems has got to involve getting us off the one-person-one-car/suburban sprawl mindset.)
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i dont think one-person-one-car is necessarily the crux of the problem, when i was in germany i noticed much the same (although despite owning a car many people used public transit more often than not)

but i think the biggest issue is the one car each one person chooses, if its your personal car you probably dont need an 8 person SUV, most people dont need a V8 engine, and now-standard luxuries like power steering and automatic transmissions also significantly reduce fuel efficiency

of course i cant say much since i drive a mustang gt with an automatic trans, lol (still get better mileage than my friends who drive SUVs, trucks, and big town cars for no reason though, lol)
 
mike3 said:
If this isn't a good option, then what should we do, exactly? Since oil's not going to last forever, and cheap oil's not going to last long at all, what should we do?
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Convince the religious left to give up their anti-nuclear crusade so we can have clean, cheap, safe energy forever
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
Ad hominem.

Do you disagree with the one observation I've made in this thread, that the oil industry has enjoyed huge tax breaks even while making massive profits?

Does the amount of biking I do change the answer to this question, somehow?

ETA: FWIW, I guarantee you my carbon footprint is well below the norm in the U.S. I guarantee you it's probably well above the norm in many other places in the world. And I do live in a relatively dense urban residential area to reduce my dependence on driving a car.
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Ad hominem, red herring, ...so many fallacies. Drysdale's non-thinking comment was also a false dichotomy of an absurd degree. You don't have to be green in "everything you do" to make a difference.
 
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