VisionFromFeeling - General discussion thread

So I am curious: If one lives in a state where higher education is nearly (or close to it) "free" (paid for through taxes, I know, but its irrelevant to the point) - why would you choose to come to the United States to attend a university instead where you have to pay for everything and have to work during the summer as a "practical nurse" back home to do it?

There are only a few reasons that come to mind which make sense.. The first is that your going to the best school you can get into, and its better than what you can get into at your home country. But this doesn't make any sense for Anita because sweden has lots of very well respected universities and does some of the top research in the world. I can see though, perhaps going to a Stanford, Harvard, or Yale in the US over a Swedish University - maybe just for the experience. But why, instead, forgo the free education to attend what is in all honestly a mediocre school that is only regionally known, and doesn't rank well in any of your majors? Its a Tier 3 school overall, and the only programs it has that rank at all nationally are not science (public affairs & education).

Note that I'm not saying there is anything wrong with UNCC: Its a good school for people in the region, and for people born in the region, I don't see why you wouldn't go there if you couldn't get into some place better. But when the option is paying a lot of money for a "mediocre" school with no international recognition versus a free education back home, where even the "mediocre" universities are better than UNCC - why in the world would anyone do this?

I ask these questions because I think they might provide some insight into her thought process and the woo she promotes. I am not critiquing her personal life choices - shes free to do whatever she wants.
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When I asked her this question at BoHo's she told me that Sweden does not offer the education in the sciences they do here in America. The schools aren't as good in the science area. I think she told me what specifically she wants to do in science and that they don't offer it there. Can't remember as I was not familiar with it.

She told me that she was interested in North Carolina because that was where her Internet honey was at. I don't think she had met him yet (I could be wrong) but she was thinking of Ohio for the same reason.

She felt that she would get a better education in America.

Oh yeah, Welcome back Jim!

Does anyone know what happened to her claims that she found a dead body? Also what is up with her posts about using the Laws of Attraction to find rent money and other things?
 
sgf8, you must remember that many of us are not facebook friends with her. Some of us are not even on facebook at all. If you want to discuss what she's talking about there, you'll have to give us some quotes.

And, yeah, she wrote once that she wanted to study something they didn't teach in Sweden like osteopathy or homeopathy or something else they are too smart to teach in Sweden. But then she fell in love with optics or something. But it makes total sense that she came to NC for her old man on the internet. Now that they are no longer an item, I don't know why she doesn't stay in Sweden to finish her degree. It's gotta be cheaper.

Ward
 
There was a discussion about her schooling choice in this thread over at StopVFF.

Here's what she told me about her choice of education when I asked her about it:

[5/10/2009 4:23:44 PM] Anita Ikonen: You're absolutely right. I could have studied in Sweden for no tuition cost what so ever. Here in America I pay $10,000 a semester!
[5/10/2009 4:24:36 PM] Anita Ikonen: And no I am not rich and no I don't come from a wealthy background! I had to work for two years saving every penny I made, literally, in order to be able to afford it. But it was my dream.
[5/10/2009 4:25:30 PM] Anita Ikonen: Well, my dream was to become an Osteopathic Physician. You know, they implement some manipulation similar to chiropractics into medicine. In Sweden, Osteopathy is considered, well, hrm, woo, and Osteopathic Medicine is not offered in any Swedish schools. So I decided to come to its source.
[5/10/2009 4:26:35 PM] Anita Ikonen: Because I knew that what ever becomes my career I would take it to the uppermost professional level. So I came to America and started on my Pre-Medicine undergraduate.
[5/10/2009 4:26:57 PM] Anita Ikonen: Generally Pre-Meds are recommended to do a B.S. Chemistry, B.S. Biology, or a bit of both, so I chose B.S. Chemistry.
[5/10/2009 4:27:38 PM] Anita Ikonen: In my second year I had introductory Physics, and fell in love with magnetism and added a second major in Optical Physics. And have kept the B.S. Chemistry and am doing both. Luckily they can be combined in Medical Physics.
[5/10/2009 4:28:39 PM] Anita Ikonen: So that is why I am studying in the USA. And I think I am more drawn to the science and technology opportunities in America than what we have in Sweden or even in Europe. So I'm staying.
[5/10/2009 4:29:05 PM] Anita Ikonen: Well, expensive... I'll be making $ 200,000 starting salary when I get started.
[5/10/2009 4:29:19 PM] Anita Ikonen: So don't you ever worry about me getting into any woo economy!
[5/10/2009 4:30:04 PM] Anita Ikonen: But the irony is that I'm not even doing any of this for money! I just want a job I love.
[5/10/2009 4:30:39 PM] Anita Ikonen: Many undergraduates are very money-greedy and big-headed about all of that, and all I can think about is the wonders of wave functions and vibrational information.
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Thanks for the responses, quite insightful into how she thinks. If we take them at face value it all seems very odd. North Carolina is blessed with top tier research universities - but she goes to UNCC instead of UNC Chapel Hill or NC State. And of course there is always the private option with schools like Duke. All very well known for their hard sciences research in various areas.

So she came to NC for her internet boyfriend - or because she wants to do osteopathic medicine - but then ends up going to a regional and relatively unknown university instead of the schools with the best medical and hard sciences research programs that are also in the same state.

Its these sort of irrational decision making processes that make me think she is more than likely suffering from some sort of mental illness rather than intentional deception - of course it could always be both. But when you see patterns of these sort of irrational decisions outside of her woo, it makes it harder to believe she is simply a charlatan and is otherwise mentally healthy.
 
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Mental illness and intentional deception are not mutually exclusive. She's mentally ill, and she's a liar. Some of the lies are directed outward, some inward, and some both. In a post over at StopVFF I outline my theory of The VFF Process.
 
Akhenaten said:
Jeebus wept.

I've just read the page dealing with the upcoming gender test and if nothing else, it's allayed any remaining concerns that I may have had that she's attempting any kind of scam.

That ever-increasing mass of gibberish leaves very little doubt that she's utterly looney tunes.



​

:eye-poppi

A double degree in Physics and Chemistry? She shouldn't have been allowed to graduate from elementary school.
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Perpetual motion machines!

My investigation of my paranormal claim is one of the loves of my life, as are my various other spare-time research projects such as my two perpetuum mobile inventions that I want to build just to see that they do not work (possibly useful as awesome energy conversion machines),


Re claims:

I believe I could spot the difference between a man and a women using just my plain old senses.


ETA: Notice how the claims keep broadening at first it was quite specific(chemical analysis) then she moved to kidneys and now it's "I can tell the difference between a man and a woman.


Suspicion: she's using her breatharian money.
 
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sgf8 said:
When I asked her this question at BoHo's she told me that Sweden does not offer the education in the sciences they do here in America. The schools aren't as good in the science area. I think she told me what specifically she wants to do in science and that they don't offer it there. Can't remember as I was not familiar with it.
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Almost certainly nonsense. I doubt there's anything not offered at CTH and KTH that's offered at some random NC university.


ETA: She goes abroad and wants to become an... Osteopathic Physician... Uhm... And starts with chemistry and physics... How about becoming a PHYSICIAN first? She seems completely irrational.
 
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TubbaBlubba said:
Almost certainly nonsense. I doubt there's anything not offered at CTH and KTH that's offered at some random NC university.


ETA: She goes abroad and wants to become an... Osteopathic Physician... Uhm... And starts with chemistry and physics... How about becoming a PHYSICIAN first? She seems completely irrational.
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You do know that she claims to come from Arcturus, don't you?
 
TubbaBlubba said:
Almost certainly nonsense. I doubt there's anything not offered at CTH and KTH that's offered at some random NC university.
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She was initially referring to the fact that Sweden does not have a school for osteopathic medicine. However, at some point between leaving Sweden and beginning university in the US, she changed her mind about become an osteopathic physician. Or something. There's little rationality to her convoluted explanations.
 
desertgal said:
She was initially referring to the fact that Sweden does not have a school for osteopathic medicine.
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To be fair, this part almost makes some kind of sense. It's not that osteopathy is considered woo in Sweden, and the rest of Europe for that matter, as she states in the quotes provided by UncaYimmy. Osteopathy in Europe is woo. It's not quite as bad as chiropractic, but it's similar in the emphasis on massage and physical manipulation as the only thing ever worth doing. In the US, on the other hand, osteopathy is hardly any different from regular medicine - the courses are very similar to normal medical courses and qualified osteopaths can do pretty much anything a qualified doctor can. This is recognised elsewhere as well. In the UK, if you get a degree in osteopathy from the UK you cannot prescribe drugs and are not recognised as a real doctor at all, but someone with a degree from the US can and is. In fact, in the US the name has officially been changed to "osteopathic medicine" to distinguish it from the woo of osteopathy.

I can see two possible reasons Anita would want to go to the US to study osteopathy. Firstly, she may not have realised that osteopathy is so different in the US, and having decided she wanted to be a quack but couldn't do it in Sweden, the US would be the logical choice as the place that has actual respected osteopaths. This would seem to be rather stupid and indicative of a total lack of research on a pretty important life choice, but consider who we're dealing with here.

Alternatively, she may have known about the difference and planned on setting herself up as a quack, but with the legitimacy a degree in osteopathy from the US would give her. We already know she would have no qualms about doing this sort of thing, as the breatharianism and migraine "treatments" have proven.

Personally I'm undecided which it might be, I'm just suggesting that there are rational reasons possible for the choice.

However, at some point between leaving Sweden and beginning university in the US, she changed her mind about become an osteopathic physician. Or something. There's little rationality to her convoluted explanations.
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Again, this part isn't totally irrational either. Having got a place in a university, saved up the money to get a degree there, and actually moved to a different country, dropping it all and moving back home again just because you've decided to change course wouldn't necessarily be the best idea. Having a summer job isn't exactly a huge inconvenience - most students have them whether they need to pay tens of thousands in fees or not. And why not spend a few years in another country when you have the chance? Maybe it's not the best university in the world, but it appears to be decent enough.

While the reasons for being there in the first place may be a little questionable, the decision to stay there seems to be perfectly reasonable to me.
 
TheSkepticCanuck said:
This needs to be a FAQ item. She does not claim to come from Arcturus. She claims to be the incarnation of a white dwarf star NEAR Arcturus. Slightly different, though no less nutty.
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Actually, she claims to be an incarnation FROM a white dwarf star-which she calls TelMaar-near Arcturus. Slightly different, no less nutty. :)
 
desertgal said:
Actually, she claims to be an incarnation FROM a white dwarf star-which she calls TelMaar-near Arcturus. Slightly different, no less nutty. :)
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Do you have a link to the posting where she made that claim? I tried to find it, so I could quote it exactly and link to it for others, but I was unable to find it in a quick search. Unless someone else supplies it, I will try to locate it later, so that her exact words can be directly quoted and cited. She has typed so many walls of text that finding any specific thing she said can be challenging. :)
 
Cuddles said:
<snipped for brevity>

Personally I'm undecided which it might be, I'm just suggesting that there are rational reasons possible for the choice.
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I don't disagree with you. I do think that her decision to attend school in the USA was motivated primarily (and perhaps solely) by the fact that Sweden has no school of osteopathic medicine. If she had graduated as an osteopathic physician, I have no idea if she would have returned to Sweden to a wooish practice, or remained in the USA where osteopaths are more respected. I'm guessing the latter, but with Anita, who knows?


Again, this part isn't totally irrational either. Having got a place in a university, saved up the money to get a degree there, and actually moved to a different country, dropping it all and moving back home again just because you've decided to change course wouldn't necessarily be the best idea. Having a summer job isn't exactly a huge inconvenience - most students have them whether they need to pay tens of thousands in fees or not. And why not spend a few years in another country when you have the chance? Maybe it's not the best university in the world, but it appears to be decent enough.

While the reasons for being there in the first place may be a little questionable, the decision to stay there seems to be perfectly reasonable to me.
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No, not irrational, but UNCC does not have a school of osteopathic medicine, and she's never given any indication that she matriculated at a US school that did before switching majors. So it is confusing.
 
TheSkepticCanuck said:
Do you have a link to the posting where she made that claim? I tried to find it, so I could quote it exactly and link to it for others, but I was unable to find it in a quick search. Unless someone else supplies it, I will try to locate it later, so that her exact words can be directly quoted and cited. She has typed so many walls of text that finding any specific thing she said can be challenging. :)
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4265685&postcount=406

VisionFromFeeling said:
I tried to join The Skeptics Guide to the Universe Forum at http://skepchick.org/skepticsguide/ but believe it or not they ask "Are you human?" and you have to answer "Yes" in order to register, so I couldn't do that and asked myself where is an extraterrestrial incarnation from a white dwarf star near Arcturus supposed to go and luckily Randi welcomes the opinions of all forms of life.
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She also corrected one of us quite sharply once when she was referred to as the reincarnation OF a white dwarf star instead of FROM a white dwarf star. She insisted that, rationally, no one could be a reincarnation of white dwarf star itself, which is naturally true, but the irony of her comment was completely lost on her. Not sure where that post is, though-lost in the milieu. ;)
 
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