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[achimspok]

Well, once upon a time the church had no alternatives to an earth in the center of the world. So how many possibilities do we have?

Let's see, the NIST Interim Report had a theory about a buckled column 79 but also stated that column 79 only would buckle over an unsupported length of at least 4 floors if the steel temperature reaches 500°C.
Well, that seems to be pretty impossible for columns of a 3h fire resistance rating in the fuel lacking core area and an office space that burned away within about 20 minutes per area.
After years of hard work to animate fires at the SEC floors - guiding the fires by opening windows - setting up little fires in the north to "simulate" the spreading that didn't occur in the model - copying floors on fire and paste it one above the other - they got an surprising result: somehow the area around column 79 burnt for hours one floor above the other.
...and another surprise: 5 floors of unsupported column length and a steel temperature of above 150° (even if the report found no evidence for fire in the west of e.g. the 12th floor after 3:13pm).

So how many possibilities are left?
Whats about noodling column 79 for example in the basement near those strange hot spots found by AVIRIS?

No, whats about noodling column 81 and 80 for example in the basement near those strange hot spots found by AVIRIS? (...just because 80 and 81 must have been gone prior to 79.)

 

[bill smith]

Well, once upon a time the church had no alternatives to an earth in the center of the world. So how many possibilities do we have?

Let's see, the NIST Interim Report had a theory about a buckled column 79 but also stated that column 79 only would buckle over an unsupported length of at least 4 floors if the steel temperature reaches 500°C.
Well, that seems to be pretty impossible for columns of a 3h fire resistance rating in the fuel lacking core area and an office space that burned away within about 20 minutes per area.
After years of hard work to animate fires at the SEC floors - guiding the fires by opening windows - setting up little fires in the north to "simulate" the spreading that didn't occur in the model - copying floors on fire and paste it one above the other - they got an surprising result: somehow the area around column 79 burnt for hours one floor above the other.
...and another surprise: 5 floors of unsupported column length and a steel temperature of above 150° (even if the report found no evidence for fire in the west of e.g. the 12th floor after 3:13pm).

So how many possibilities are left?
Whats about noodling column 79 for example in the basement near those strange hot spots found by AVIRIS?

No, whats about noodling column 81 and 80 for example in the basement near those strange hot spots found by AVIRIS? (...just because 80 and 81 must have been gone prior to 79.)

I think they had pumped many of the the hollow core columns in WTC1 full of nanothermite.When ignited in a bottom-to-top sequence the melted steel drained into the basements causing the fire to burn there for an unprecedented five months or so despite continual water suppression. Maybe something similar went on in WTC7 ?

 

[achimspok]

I think they had pumped many of the the hollow core columns in WTC1 full of nanothermite.When ignited in a bottom-to-top sequence the melted steel drained into the basements causing the fire to burn for an unprecedented five months or so despite continual water suppression.

Really? That's what you think?
Why a bottom-to-top sequence? The building would collapse near the weakest floors anyway. You just need to overload the burning remnant. What do you think?

 

[bill smith]

Really? That's what you think?
Why a bottom-to-top sequence? The building would collapse near the weakest floors anyway. You just need to overload the burning remnant. What do you think?

The Factor of safety for the core columns was about 3. So it would be possible to evenly thin out the core columns by say one-third without the building falling. A bottom -to-top sequence to allow the flow of molten steel to drop through the hole of where the column underneath had been before it had been melted a split second before.

Nothing else can really explain the fire. A huge pool of molten steel- and I am talking thousands of tons here would do the trick nicely.

 

[achimspok]

The Factor of safety for the core columns was about 3. So it would be possible to evenly thin out the core columns by say one-third without the building falling.

No, in the case of WTC7 one buckled column was enough for the total destruction within seconds. ...and that was a bunker for emergency events.

A bottom -to-top sequence to allow the flow of molten steel to drop through the hole of where the column underneath had been before it had been melted a split second before.

You see, it is easier to melt steel in the basement. ...and you get the advantage of much more load pulling on such a noodled column.

Nothing else can really explain the fire.

Are you talking about the basement fires?

Yeah, I really wonder how a vaporized and unburnt cloud of Jet-A kerosene managed to escape the fire and to fall 350m into the basement within about 6-9 seconds while raindrops would fall about one minute.

A huge pool of molten steel- and I am talking thousands of tons here would do the trick nicely.

I think I just would bow some columns to redistribute the loads. It's not that obvious. You could blame the Jet fuel even if the damaged local elevator shafts have no connection to the impact zone. What do you think?

 

[achimspok]

The Factor of safety for the core columns was about 3. So it would be possible to evenly thin out the core columns by say one-third without the building falling.

No, in the case of WTC7 one buckled column was enough for the total destruction within seconds. ...and that was a bunker for emergency events.

A bottom -to-top sequence to allow the flow of molten steel to drop through the hole of where the column underneath had been before it had been melted a split second before.

You see, it is easier to melt steel in the basement. ...and you get the advantage of much more load pulling on such a noodled column.

Nothing else can really explain the fire.

Are you talking about the basement fires?

Yeah, I really wonder how a vaporized and unburnt cloud of Jet-A kerosene managed to escape the fire and to fall 350m into the basement within about 6-9 seconds while raindrops would fall about one minute.

A huge pool of molten steel- and I am talking thousands of tons here would do the trick nicely.

I think I just would bow some columns to redistribute the loads. It's not that obvious. You could blame the Jet fuel even if the damaged local elevator shafts have no connection to the impact zone. What do you think?

 

[bill smith]

No, in the case of WTC7 one buckled column was enough for the total destruction within seconds. ...and that was a bunker for emergency events.


You see, it is easier to melt steel in the basement. ...and you get the advantage of much more load pulling on such a noodled column.


Are you talking about the basement fires?

Yeah, I really wonder how a vaporized and unburnt cloud of Jet-A kerosene managed to escape the fire and to fall 350m into the basement within about 6-9 seconds while raindrops would fall about one minute.


I think I just would bow some columns to redistribute the loads. It's not that obvious. You could blame the Jet fuel even if the damaged local elevator shafts have no connection to the impact zone. What do you think?

It possibly did a little but it wouldn't matter. The top-down demolition began only a few seconds after the steel was melted down into the basements.

You can see in the attached video that the core columns suporting the antenna gave way allowing the antenna to drop into the building before there was any other visible .movement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9-owhllM9k antenna

(I recommend that you watch this fullscreen)

Remember the fireball that came out of the lift. That came from the basement -not from above. Fireballs go up, not down. It was dry heat too. Remember it made the guy's skin all fall off and it ended up hanging from his fingertips. Jet fuel would have burned him as a jet-fuel fire burns..black crispy bits etc.

 

[Andy_Ross]

All very nice. What support and evidence do you have for a CD, thermite or any of you suppositions?

Also how was it done?

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

All very nice. What support and evidence do you have for a CD, thermite or any of you suppositions?

Also how was it done?

Bill just closes his eyes & imagines the whole thing. That's what Truthers like Bill do everyday, they imagine scenerios in their tiny brains & come up with some hairbrained theory. Then they come on the internet & explain that "this happened" & expect people to believe them without evidence.

 

[pgimeno]

Yeah, I really wonder how a vaporized and unburnt cloud of Jet-A kerosene managed to escape the fire and to fall 350m into the basement within about 6-9 seconds while raindrops would fall about one minute.

I thought it descended burning, not unburnt, and that that was the reason elevator doors were blown on several floors. The overpressure due to the deflagration was capable of pushing the burning fuel downwards even more quickly.

 

[bill smith]

All very nice. What support and evidence do you have for a CD, thermite or any of you suppositions?

Also how was it done?

We are denied by the powers that be all the means to verify our findings.

But we don't need to prove it. We just need to convince people that our theory of 9/11 is far more plausible than yours, It's not that complicated really. Read my sig.

 

[bill smith]

I thought it descended burning, not unburnt, and that that was the reason elevator doors were blown on several floors. The overpressure due to the deflagration was capable of pushing the burning fuel downwards even more quickly.

Damn I'd like to have seen that. Imagine trying to push a fireball of burning jet fuel downwards when it wants to go up. lol

 

[Toke]

A building collapse after burning for hours.

Sure you can argue lengthily over the exact mechanism, but what is the point.*

*Except for some people interested in fire safety of building codes.

 

[achimspok]

It possibly did a little but it wouldn't matter. The top-down demolition degan only a few seconds after the steel was melted down into the basements.

Now you think one column was really enough? I would do it slow and one by one.

You can see in the attached video that the core columns suporting the antenna gave way allowing the antenna to drop into the building before there was any other visible .movement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9-owhllM9k antenna

(I reccomend that you watch this fullscreen)

It's a really bad quality, right? And of course the top tilts away from the camera. So you get the same problem of the perspective like NIST had when measuring the fall of WTC7. They though the building fell in slow motion but it was just the north face bowing away from the camera. This way they really missed that the West Penthouse dropped like a stone from one moment to the next.
Well, even the No Planers had a lot of problems with perspective issues. Who cares. The bunker puffed away anyway, right? ...and all the Enron papers at the initial fire floors. Hot stuff!
Oh, mistake, mistake! There were earlier fires probably caused by ignition sources from the collapse of WTC1 but all these fires didn't spread that much and were burnt out before noon.

But maybe you want to watch this full screen...

Looks like the wire between antenna mast and east face lost tension.

Remember the fireball that came out of the lift. That came from the basement -not from above. Fireballs go up, not down.

You are absolutely right! Laureen Manning saw it exploding out of the bottom of the elevator shafts. Most of the witnesses had the impression that elevator cabins fell into the basement and exploded. No need to say that not one of the express elevators fell into the basement and exploded. Cabin 6 and 7 were parked at B1 for at least a month. All the visitors to the Window on the World had to take a shuttle to 78 and switch. And of course the freight elevator 50 fell indeed but was stopped at B1 by the emergency brakes. Cruz and Griffith survived but they couldn't see anything. It was pitch black in the basement and there was a lot of smoke after some "explosion" blew the elevator doors into the cabin. ...really strange, isn't it?
Nevertheless, the jet fuel must have passed all three express cabins because there was a lot of damage below B1. It probably took the stairs what is reasonable because it first wanted to destruct the service room at the 21st floor just to prevent anyones access to the MER floors or the roof. I think the destruction of the fire fighters communication system was an accident just because it was in the same room.

It was dry heat too. Remember it made the guy's skin all fall off and end up hanging from his fingertips. Jet fuel would have burned him as a jet-fuel fire burns..black crispy bits etc.

Absolutely. ...nice little trees in the lobby, right?
Once I burnt my hand with gasoline, you know? I put it under cold water, took a towel and my skin was gone. It was in the towel. I took it off like a glove.
Seriously, some fuel-air explosion would indeed cause some overpressure just enough to blow out some windows but that magical fuel must first reach a proper fuel:air ratio of about 1% if the basement had a temperature of 100°F because otherwise the fuel would burn but not explode.

 

[achimspok]

I thought it descended burning, not unburnt, and that that was the reason elevator doors were blown on several floors. The overpressure due to the deflagration was capable of pushing the burning fuel downwards even more quickly.

Burning fuel do not explode, right? The overpressure of 3psi (NIST estimate) would be able to compress all the air in the elevator shafts down to the 77th floor. After that the air would decompress and blow the vapor upwards or it lost a lot of pressure through blown elevator doors reported down to the - surprise - 77th floor (and in the lobby of course - the local shafts opposite to the west entrance).

 

[achimspok]

We are denied by the powers that be all the means to verify our findings.

But we don't need to prove it. We just need to convince people that our theory of 9/11 is far more plausible than yours, It's not that complicated really. Read my sig.

You are absolutely right, Bill! I say, one column is enough to bring WTC7 down. Zapp and BANG! These twoofers should first try to unprove it, right? Man, the steel is gone and hey, NIST is on our side, PM is on our side, even Zelikow and FOX is on our side. Let these ragheads burn in hell!

 

[achimspok]

Damn I'd like to have seen that. Imagine trying to push a fireball of burning jet fuel downwards when it wants to go up. lol

Up and down and to all sides.... and then it passed Cruz and Griffith at B1 and blew away B2 and B3. LOL, you say it.

 

[achimspok]

A building collapse after burning for hours.

Sure you can argue lengthily over the exact mechanism, but what is the point.*

*Except for some people interested in fire safety of building codes.

Hey Bill, now we are 3. Last week there was that man in that crashed car. The criminal investigators did a lot of noise about that little hole in his head. I said, a dead man in a crashed car. Who cares about how exactly he died.*
*Except the automobile industry perhaps.

 

[Toke]

I would say your analogy is a bit weak.

Why don't you find some examples of steel buildings that have burned for hours without collapsing?

 

[pgimeno]

Damn I'd like to have seen that. Imagine trying to push a fireball of burning jet fuel downwards when it wants to go up. lol

It "wants to go up" because the density of the hot gas is less. The overpressure due to the deflagration exceeded atmospheric pressure by far, so the effect of atmospheric pressure over that heated gas (which is what would make it ascend) was overly compensated by the downward pressure.

If you observe the impacts, you can see that the lower part of the fireball extends downwards initially because of that effect. If you do that in a tube (like the elevator shaft) instead of in open air, the effect is much bigger.