Ed All 43 videos "Second Hit"" [Explosion]at WTC 2: Plane or No Plane?

[TJM]

Time to put that canard to bed.

Please say it is something other than what you saw on teevee, at least.

There were millions who saw it on TV too. Hundreds of millions perhaps. I was one of them. So what? Your 43 crappy youtube videos and your handwaving means absolutely nothing.

Thousands, perhaps tens of thousands who witnessed it at Ground Zero.

Hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions more who witnessed it in the surrounding burroughs and cities.

Millions, perhaps hundreds of millions more who witnessed it on TV.

And we aren't going away.

 

[BigAl]

No, BigAl, that is not acceptable. First of all, there is no reliable DNA proof via publicly available information.

Of course there is. I posted it weeks ago along with email and phone # that you could call for more information and confirmation.

You dismissed it with lies.


What happened to my work-mate, Ed Felt, who was last seen boarding Flight 93, who's name is on the Flight 93 manifest and who made a call from the plane while it was over Western PA describing the hijacking and who's DNA was recovered along with the DNA of everyone else listed on the boarding manifest and with essentially the entire plane, Flight 93?

 

[332nd]

On the contrary. Posting up claims consisting in dogged adherence in the common storyline of 9/11 is precisely equivalent to a continuation of belief in Santa long past, say, age 7.

Wrong. Intelligence & logic takes one to truth.

Quick, Redtail, what evidence that you know of convinces you of the correctness of the claim Flight 175 crashed into the South Tower?

Please say it is something other than what you saw on teevee, at least.

Plane parts,DNA, eyewitness reports... you know, all those things you try to spin or don't like to talk about. I did see it on tv after

If you don't say it is something other than teevee, at least, then, in that event, it would appear you will need to spend the time between now and late December of this year being nice.

I saw it on tv too, granted it was after the hit.

Oh I also saw it in quite a lot of the videos you posted in this thread. I know you want to call the plane a "shadow thingy" but its clearly a plane.

Now then, I answered your question, will you answer the questions about Felt and Ong?

 

[The Platypus]

For us "lurkers" this isn't rocket science. It just boils down too who is more likely to be lying.

Is it, the entire gov't, elements of the military, the NYPD, the FDNY, the FBI, NIST, CIA, and many other agencies, the entire media of several countries, the many of millions of people that saw it live in NY that or live on TV (including myself), thousands of qualified experts in various related fields, all recorded video, DNA labs, etc...

Or is it, some guy named "jammonius" acting ridiculous on the internet and calling what is clearly a plane, a fuzzy thing.

Call me crazy, but i'm less likely to trust some guy on some forum that is trying to get me deny reality based only on his say so.

 

[Oystein]

No, BigAl, that is not acceptable. First of all, there is no reliable DNA proof via publicly available information. Plus, you've rendered yourself virtually devoid of credibility as you have posted up countless times the question of what happened to Ed Felt based on the claim you were looking for an answer.

For the sake of clarification: Are you denying that Ed Felt ended as a DNA sample scratched from the rubble of flight 93's crash? You seem to insinuate this, but have so far shyed away from making that claim outright. You appear to have a theory about 9/11 that differs from the one we all hold as real, namely that 4 planes crashed that day in NY, PA and VA. Be a man, and tell us what else happened to these 4 planes, if you claim they did NOT crah?

We are all deperately for your answer about what YOU think happened to Ed Felt and Betty Ong. You know what our answer is: They died in plane crashes. Their families think they died in plane crashes.
YOU are the one who is denying the reality of plane crashes. Therefore, you are denying that Ed Felt and Betty Ong died in plane crashes.
But jammonius, that opens up the question: Why is Al missing his workmate Ed Felt, and why did Betty's sister never get her Hawaiian vacation? Do you think Ed and Betty never existed? Still live? Or perished at another time or place?
If you deny the death of victims due to plane crashes, you better offer up an alternative hypothesis, because you know that is the accepted way to progress in science.

So what is your hypothesis about the whereabouts of Betty, Ed and all the other people listed as having boarded the 4 planes?

You have been in denial for days now, high time for you step up to the plate and make an affirmative claim; or stop posting altogether.

 

[Andy_Ross]

If the planes didn't crash that day, where are they?
What did happen if the planes weren't involved?

 

[jammonius]

There were millions who saw it on TV too. Hundreds of millions perhaps. I was one of them. So what? Your 43 crappy youtube videos and your handwaving means absolutely nothing.

We may be making some progress here. You at least are willing to admit that teevee convinces you; and, you assert, millions of others.

It is at least an indicator of progress when posters and lurkers finally own up to what convinces them of the truth of the claim jetliners crashed into the WTC on 9/11.

In this respect, the best illustrator of what teevee did was the following declaration:

"...there's another one..."

That was the declaration made when shadow thingy melted into the South Tower. That means shadow thingy was in the nature of a "2fer" where the one shadow image served to confirm the crashes of not one, but two jetliners.

That is what teevee did.

Now, at least, we are zooming in on the truth of the matter. People believe what they saw on teevee. Those who carried out 9/11 likely knew and understood that teevee would convince people. Thus, no investigation was needed; and, more importantly, none was ever had, was it posters and lurkers?

Most of you have not ever grasped the fact that I am not here questioning what you believe about 9/11 and nearly all of you have failed to grasp that I am not here seeking to change your minds, your viewpoints, your perspectives and certainly not your beliefs and still less your emotional need for your beliefs.

I wouldn't touch your emotional need to believe in the common storyline of nineeleven with a ten foot pole. Trust me.

What I do question and will seek to be persuasive on is the fact that there has not ever been an investigative finding of what happened on 9/11 carried out by a competent authorized investigation based on proper investigative technique, procedure and norms.

If you say otherwise, I will challenge your assertion which is a pollite way of saying I will call your posting false.

Are there any takers among posters?

How about lurkers?

Thousands, perhaps tens of thousands who witnessed it at Ground Zero.

I have just had the following rubber stamp issued:

Hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions more who witnessed it in the surrounding burroughs and cities.

Now you've just gone over into belief in Santa territory.

Millions, perhaps hundreds of millions more who witnessed it on TV.

Do you also keep up with the Kardashians?

And we aren't going away.

I am not questioning your beliefs and I am not touching your emotional need to believe the common storyline of 9/11 with a ten foot pole.

Get it?

 

[jammonius]

Of course there is. I posted it weeks ago along with email and phone # that you could call for more information and confirmation.

You dismissed it with lies.


What happened to my work-mate, Ed Felt, who was last seen boarding Flight 93, who's name is on the Flight 93 manifest and who made a call from the plane while it was over Western PA describing the hijacking and who's DNA was recovered along with the DNA of everyone else listed on the boarding manifest and with essentially the entire plane, Flight 93?

If you want our Lurkers to know what on earth you're talking about, BigAl, then you'll need to post up the links to the posts where the following can be found:

BigAl Claim:

Of course there is. I posted it weeks ago along with email and phone # that you could call for more information and confirmation.

And the link is:_________________________

BigAl Claim:

You dismissed it with lies.

And the link is:_________________________


Fair enough?

 

[dafydd]

No, BigAl, that is not acceptable. First of all, there is no reliable DNA proof via publicly available information. Plus, you've rendered yourself virtually devoid of credibility as you have posted up countless times the question of what happened to Ed Felt based on the claim you were looking for an answer.

So, at a minimum, you have, as I have already pointed out, simply exposed yourself as having been engaging in a bad rhetorical ploy. For shame.

If you have private information concerning DNA, then you need to seek permission to have that discussed.

Furthermore, any attempt to hide behind the shield of "concern for the victims" is utterly disengenuous. As you now know, there is no proof of what happened on 9/11. Accordingly, there exists a vital need to try to find out what happened from people who may have some vital information. Doing so is the proper way to proceed. That includes opening up dialogue with the family of Ed Felt, and you need to tell them I said so, if you don't mind.

Of course, at some point we may reach the next layer of denial amongst debunkers; namely, that layer that discloses that, ultimately, debunkers may not really want to know what happened on 9/11. That may be one reason why they hold so tenaciously to stupid claims and latch onto any and all claims of "evidence" even if it is sourced, ultimately, to the good graces of the likes of Zacharias Moussaoui.

Fish or cut bait, BigAl.

ps

And the same goes for the rest of you who are posting up variations on the theme of righteous indignation. No, that is not an acceptble dodge, could a few of you but realize it.

What I said above is worth repeating here with emphasis:

Of course, at some point we may reach the next layer of denial amongst debunkers; namely, that layer that discloses that, ultimately, debunkers may not really want to know what happened on 9/11. That may be one reason why they hold so tenaciously to stupid claims and latch onto any and all claims of "evidence" even if it is sourced, ultimately, to the good graces of the likes of Zacharias Moussaoui.

I think we are approaching the point where some of you need to be confronted with a question or two from me. Let's start with these three, nice and easy ones:

Do you want to know what happened on 9/11?

Do you acknowledge there exists no validated and adequately proven record of what happened on 9/11?

You do realize that websites put together by amateurs under the generic description of debunker websites do not contain adequately sourced or properly proven claims about what happened on 9/11, don't you?

Optional bonus question:

You do grasp that your expressions of righteous indignation are utterly inappropriate and useless, right?

Bollocks from start to finish.

 

[Andy_Ross]

If he 'Shadow thingy' wasn't an aircraft, what happened to the aircraft?

 

[dafydd]

No, I will not stay away from the families of 9/11 victims. I here renew my call to lurkers to specifically include families of 9/11 victims. This is serious. We need to dialogue. If you are a family member and especially a family member of someone who was said to have been onboard Flight 175, we, as a society, have an urgent need to be in communication with you.

Come on Lurkers, you've responded before, so please do so again, now, on an even more urgent basis.

Sincere thanks for your consideration of this request.

Do you seriously think that the families would talk to to a raving *********** nutcase like you? Haven't they suffered enough? Get medical help soon,if only for your family's sake.

 

[jammonius]

That's why I'm a lurker now...at least in this thread.

Greetings Macgyver

and welcome back from being a lurker. As you know, I have high regard for you as a poster. Permit me, therefore, to use this reply to you to set out, once and for all to see, that my claims are not that complicated. Other than the observation made many times by me that I am not here questioning people's beliefs, I would like to set out the following postulates that go to the core of what I claim to be true concerning the NO PLANE claim:

I have set this up as a Rubber Stamp containing my core assertions concerning the NO PLANE claim, numbered 1 to 4:

Virtually all of the oft-repeated questions, rhetorical and otherwise, that posters and lurkers are fond of posting up can be answered by the above.

all the best

 

[dafydd]

We may be making some progress here. You at least are willing to admit that teevee convinces you; and, you assert, millions of others.

It is at least an indicator of progress when posters and lurkers finally own up to what convinces them of the truth of the claim jetliners crashed into the WTC on 9/11.

In this respect, the best illustrator of what teevee did was the following declaration:

"...there's another one..."

That was the declaration made when shadow thingy melted into the South Tower. That means shadow thingy was in the nature of a "2fer" where the one shadow image served to confirm the crashes of not one, but two jetliners.

That is what teevee did.

Now, at least, we are zooming in on the truth of the matter. People believe what they saw on teevee. Those who carried out 9/11 likely knew and understood that teevee would convince people. Thus, no investigation was needed; and, more importantly, none was ever had, was it posters and lurkers?

Most of you have not ever grasped the fact that I am not here questioning what you believe about 9/11 and nearly all of you have failed to grasp that I am not here seeking to change your minds, your viewpoints, your perspectives and certainly not your beliefs and still less your emotional need for your beliefs.

I wouldn't touch your emotional need to believe in the common storyline of nineeleven with a ten foot pole. Trust me.

What I do question and will seek to be persuasive on is the fact that there has not ever been an investigative finding of what happened on 9/11 carried out by a competent authorized investigation based on proper investigative technique, procedure and norms.

If you say otherwise, I will challenge your assertion which is a pollite way of saying I will call your posting false.

Are there any takers among posters?

How about lurkers?



I have just had the following rubber stamp issued:

[qimg]http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/all43posting/1000s.jpg?t=1279970406[/qimg]



Now you've just gone over into belief in Santa territory.



Do you also keep up with the Kardashians?



I am not questioning your beliefs and I am not touching your emotional need to believe the common storyline of 9/11 with a ten foot pole.

Get it?

More bollocks.

 

[dafydd]

Time to give up folks,this is a hard case madman,nothing can be done to help him.

 

[jammonius]

If he 'Shadow thingy' wasn't an aircraft, what happened to the aircraft?

Do you know how to formulate a coherent, logically consistent question?

Do you fail to grasp that the question you posed is absurd on its face, devoid of logical cogency?

 

[Oystein]

...People believe what they saw on teevee.

...
What we saw on TV has been expanded upon and corroborated by numerous extensive investigations carried out properly by qualified and relevant entities, both public and private.

It is not by TV that we know that Ed Felt and Betty Ong went missing. It is by the publication of passenger lists by the two airlines involved.

You have summarily handwaved away internet postings by the airlines where the lists originated, and by a US court of law, claiming (without a shred of evidence to support your claim) in effect that they should be considered fraud.

If that is your standard, are you willing to retract every quote, every picture, every video you have ever posted here and presented (most of time falsely so) as "evidence" for your lies? You can't have it both ways.

But Ed Felt is gone. He was a human being and has not been seen since. This is not from TV. That is Al's workmate!
You either must declare Al to be a liar, or offer an explanation as to Ed Felt's disappearance.

...I have just had the following rubber stamp issued:
Your claim there are 1000s of witnesses is false. You cannot, have not, and will not prove that claim
...

You make a very obvious mistake there, jammonius: You are making the opposite claim, namely that there were less than 1000s of witnesses. You cannot, have not, and will not prove that claim. Correct?

Now. Do you accept or deny that the North Tower was burning after the second event, emitting a huge smoke cloud?
Do you accept or deny that the burning North Tower, being the tallest building in the largest city of the USA, was potentially visible to hundreds of thousands of thousands of witnesses in the 5 burroughs and New Jersey?
Do you accept or deny that major catastrophies like that tend to command the attention of many, if not most, people who are in a position to see it? In fact, would not many onlookers even go to lengths to get a better view?
Do you accept or deny that even within the twin towers, 1000s were in a position to see any approaching plane?
After truthfully answering these questions in the affirmative (yes, that is my claim, in case you missed it: a significant portion of hundreds of thousands of people in NYC and New Jersey were paying attention to the WTC when the second plane struck), would you accept or deny that there were likely 1000s of witnesses to the event that damaged the South Tower?
If you deny that - WHAT IS YOUR PROOF?

Two airlines reported the loss of 4 planes. They listed human beings who perished aboard these planes. These human beings are missing. Among them are Ed Felt and betty Ong.

If no planes crashed on 9/11, where are Ed felt and betty Ong then? That question has to be answered by you and no one else, as you are the only one here apparently denying that these twho human beings perished in plane crashes (a logical conclusion from your claim of "no planes").

 

[TheRedWorm]

Anything that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. J has not show any evidence whatsoever for any of its...........ramblings, therefore, it can be dismissed without evidence.

 

[jammonius]

For the sake of clarification: Are you denying that Ed Felt ended as a DNA sample scratched from the rubble of flight 93's crash?

There is no reason for you to be dense about this. I am saying there is no valid DNA evidence and I have proven that to be the case. The last objective proof I posted on this can be found somewhere in this now 60 page thread. I am here referring to the FOIA requests for DNA information and the response to the request that confirms, on its face, that there is no publicly available proof of DNA.

I have also plainly said that for those, like BigAl, who claim to know victims families, it is vital that such families be asked questions.

In the absence of publicly available information and in the absence of a proper investigation, asking questions of those who might know something is the only rational way to proceed.

Hiding behind false emotional concern for victims is a farce. Doing that insults the integrity of victims and is nothing more than a convenient way of continuing to avoid finding out what happened on 9/11.

I will say this to you plainly, Oystein:

You do not know what happened on 9/11 because there is no valid proof of what happened derived from any proper investigation of the event.

Based on some of the content of some of your posting, you have a chance of making a breakthrough of sorts and of being able to admit the truth of what I have just said concerning the lack of a proper investigation.

I am rooting for you in that respect.

Mind you, I have readily acknowledged that you can believe whatever you choose to believe. But, you cannot pretend you KNOW what happened on 9/11 because you do not know what happened.

I here re-assert that while I do not know what happened on 9/11 exactly, just like everyone else, except those who controlled the event, I do know that the common storyline is based on illusion.

You seem to insinuate this, but have so far shyed away from making that claim outright. You appear to have a theory about 9/11 that differs from the one we all hold as real, namely that 4 planes crashed that day in NY, PA and VA. Be a man, and tell us what else happened to these 4 planes, if you claim they did NOT crah?

See: http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums...43posting/1000s4rubberstamps.jpg?t=1279971901

We are all deperately for your answer about what YOU think happened to Ed Felt and Betty Ong. You know what our answer is: They died in plane crashes. Their families think they died in plane crashes.
YOU are the one who is denying the reality of plane crashes. Therefore, you are denying that Ed Felt and Betty Ong died in plane crashes.
But jammonius, that opens up the question: Why is Al missing his workmate Ed Felt, and why did Betty's sister never get her Hawaiian vacation? Do you think Ed and Betty never existed? Still live? Or perished at another time or place?
If you deny the death of victims due to plane crashes, you better offer up an alternative hypothesis, because you know that is the accepted way to progress in science.

So what is your hypothesis about the whereabouts of Betty, Ed and all the other people listed as having boarded the 4 planes?

You have been in denial for days now, high time for you step up to the plate and make an affirmative claim; or stop posting altogether.

My answer is contained both in rubber stamp 1-4 and throughout this thread.

 

[Oystein]

If you want our Lurkers to know what on earth you're talking about, BigAl, then you'll need to post up the links to the posts where the following can be found:

BigAl Claim:

Of course there is. I posted it weeks ago along with email and phone # that you could call for more information and confirmation.

And the link is:_________________________

BigAl Claim:

You dismissed it with lies.

And the link is:_________________________


Fair enough?

No.

The fair thing would be to state what your claim is about the fate of the four planes and their passengers and crews that were officially reported by the relevant companies and authorities as having crashed in NY, PA and VA on 9/11.

Lurkers understand perfectly well what BigAl is talking about: His workmate Ed felt boarded one of the four planes and has been missing since. Lurkers understand perfectly well that you must explain the disappearence of Ed Felt if you make a claim of "no planes". This is not dependent upon BigAl publishing any numbers or linking any posts. This is only dependent on you, jammonius, making predictions from your theory and testing them. I.e., the scientific method. You make a claim, you back it up and defend it against valid challenges. Every lurker understands this.

 

[Oystein]

...
I have set this up as a Rubber Stamp containing my core assertions concerning the NO PLANE claim, numbered 1 to 4:

[qimg]http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/all43posting/1000s4rubberstamps.jpg?t=1279971901[/qimg]

Virtually all of the oft-repeated questions, rhetorical and otherwise, that posters and lurkers are fond of posting up can be answered by the above.

all the best

If you were honestly applying these rubberstamped principles, you would FIRST throw out any claim you ever made, foremost of which these:
- "no plane"
- "DEW"
- "PsyOp"
as they are absurd on their face.
Are you ready to admit as much?

But one thing remains: Ed Felt and Betty Ong are no more. Where are they?




P.S.: reported for spamming.